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For a group of grown men, there sure are a lot of drama queens in here. I was skeptical of the validity of the claims as well until the statement was released, and I am a woman that has been put in more gross situations than any of you guys would think. It's not such a far fetched notion to acknowledge that anyone can say anything on the internet to gain attention/cause trouble. It's the easiest thing in the world to sit behind your keyboard in the comfort of your home and spread lies. It's also not such a far fetched notion to acknowledge that people we may admire such as Lacey and C.K. might be gross. I think anyone in here that was skeptical were keeping the door open to both possibilities until more information was provided. Move on. Thank you.

Lock it up.

If you're trying to hold back the mob, why not just say that there's no reason to rush to judgement? You say you're playing devil's advocate, but really you're just trotting out the generic playbook for rape denial: he's a good family man and she's mentally ill, repeat until the victim slinks off into a corner and is never heard from again.

RT has an exclusive 3xLP https://roughtrade.com/gb/music/all-melody

It's quite sensible not to rush to judgment when someone is accused of something without proof. Spreading information about the girl struggling with mental health in an effort to play devil's advocate cast doubt on her story is not. It just perpetuates the rape denial climate that we know is very real. Also his snark and condescension (ie "you don’t need me to copy and paste a WebMD definition for that, do you?", "Delayed thanks to extended production time, to fortify the sleeve so you can’t break it over your head for Likes.") aren't helping his case.

When your first response to accusations that a person who has written and sang about predatory behavior is to scour the accuser's social media for evidence of flaws, then suggest that she's not reliable because she has struggled with mental health, you're the part of the problem. "But if her reputation is truly on the line"... it's not. His is. You just WANT her to be lying.

No, but it is very clearly what you implied. What else were you bringing up her mental condition for? The clear and insidious accusation is that because she suffers from a mental illness, she is untrustworthy.

I guess I’ll just agree to disagree, then. Not once did I say “okay well that girl is openly bipolar so she probably just made this whole thing up”. If that’s how you’d like to interpret my post, okay, you’re welcome to go for it. But it’s not what I said. Before developments were made and hollow apologies were posted, I was in a camp of people willing to hear about more evidence or facts surface before jumping to one conclusion or another. I feel like I’m being put on full blast because I didn’t immediately side with the first allegation, and because I took a moment to assess the credibility of a piece of the larger picture before we got any other pieces of the puzzle. I’m not a Lacey apologist and I can’t rationalize his actions. But I also don’t think anyone is a piece of shit for being initially skeptical about any scenario where something could be proven by the victim, if the victim felt like proving it, but may or may not at their own discretion.

Well, nice thread. Got three or four new VC posters I know are awful people. Easily the grossest thing I've read on here.

I guess they will look nice sitting next to your lostprophets collection.

Im glad all these social science degrees are finally getting some use.

I’d just like to know when my white copy is going to ship.

It's been a rough day around here at the VC... let it slide, my friend... let it ride easy down the road. Edit: You're also in a JTB thread, so I wouldn't have been as surprised if I thought people were being a little too overly emotional or sensitive.

Yeah can we lock this or make a thread to talk about it in everything else? I just want updates on the deluxe vinyl.

can't say i'm surprised. dine alone pretty much enables this kind of behavior when they release something like that.

I never said I thought we should've seen the Lacey stuff coming. Nowhere in my posts did I suggest that. I've been a Brand New fan since Deja and always assumed (hoped?) he was writing characters as a means to criticize problematic behavior. I can't see the lyrics the same way anymore, because I'm a rational person who is considering that maybe someone I admired and gave the benefit of the doubt to for years didn't deserve it.

Thanks for this, though the site appears to have crashed.

Exactly! It's gaslighting at a distance, without even the courage to speak clearly. There's no reason and no excuse to mention her mental state, especially not when followed up with the sneakily accusatory, "But if her reputation is truly on the line..." bit.

1% my ass. tons of comments here and on socials/other forums, including yours, range from grossly naive to a defense of pedophilia. your lil gem, quoted above, belongs to the former. everything you've named here – mental disorders, panic, deep trauma when confronted with dredging things up – is a textbook example of the vile outworkings of grooming, sexual abuse, and manipulation. the fact you interpret it as potential indication of slander is irresponsible and clearly indicates you should not comment so crassly on something you clearly have no experience with.

“I am going to completely smear this man’s reputation after a decade by revisiting this experience and bringing it to the public. I could potentially prove that what I am saying is 100% true, but I don’t know if I feel like revisiting the experience.” Alright man. Because that logic doesn’t necessarily check out to me, I guess I’m disgusting? Great to know. It’s also worth noting that I made that post as soon as the first accusation was made, well before Jesse’s statement. Fuck me for trying to keep a rational head and consider a larger picture, right? I still refer to the Conor Oberst incident, where a lot of people jumped the gun and immediately assumed he was a piece of shit without a shred of evidence. Did you scoff at those people too? What happens when the accused culprit turns out to be innocent? “Oh, whoops, looks like you guys were right and the whole thing was fabricated. My bad! lol” Am I close? But the fact Jesse made his statement after my post, and didn’t even address the age gap, is certainly concerning and really makes it impossible for anyone to defend him. Wish it wasn’t the case, but short of spelling out exactly what happened, I think we can all deduct that he’s rightfully in hot water and that more claims will bubble up to the surface, from the sounds of it.

People still need a line drawn in the sand for them to see whether pedophilia is OK or not.

You already made this """joke""" yesterday by the way and it's still just as void of humor as it was then. Please hurry up and get banned again.

Sorry if this was posted already, but there's a LACING full length out. I'm listening to it now and enjoying it a fair amount. I know some other folks in here liked the CS they released. https://eldermagickrecords.bandcamp.com/album/bummer

Mmm.... See, now, unlike Derek's posts - this one actually deserves some reprimand. They were 16. He was 24, famous, and King of the Scene. Have some common sense and try to imagine how easily someone in his position could manipulate these girls into thinking this was a good thing they had going until they grew up and realized he used them as masturbation material when they were too young to know better.

Totally with you on the represses, price and quality are solid, I even have copies of Caring and Killing and Until Your Heart Stops. My beef was with the lack of a repress of BH, but finding an old copy to sell for $300. The list of stuff has a couple solid deals, but some of that stuff is ridiculous. EBay with a reasonable starting bid would still have landed them decent coin for all of that stuff. Hell, I’m a huge Drowningman fan, and am still contemplating buying that test press! Focus on repressing some of the great stuff that is short printed, listen to long time fans and supporters. Another idea? Do an actual new pressing of all the In These Black Days singles, all on new colors with uniform covers in an actual box set, not just a box set of grab bag leftovers. Have the six releases’ front covers line up in a poster sized mural. Make it refreshing, and my wallet will gladly be waiting, haha.

Also of interest: According to both Nils and Erased Tapes, Nils' long-awaited followup, All Melody, is set for release on January 26th, 2018. Cover art: Tracklist: The Whole Universe Wants To Be Touched 01:58 Sunson 09:10 A Place 07:02 My Friend The Forest 05:16 Human Range 06:59 Forever Changeless 02:47 All Melody 09:31 #2 09:40 Momentum 05:21 Fundamental Values 03:50 Kaleidoscope 08:16 Harm Hymn 04:10 More info and preorder available here: https://www.erasedtapes.com/release/eratp106-nils-frahm-all-melody His new studio looks incredible, too. Really excited for this one!

I don't. You've lied; so I feel pretty comfortable calling you the liar you obviously are. And you're too helplessly stupid to be worth the time a real discussion might take. So let's just leave it at that.

To be fair, @daniel never said he could "see it coming". That's not the point. It's just about acknowledging the difference between inferring and projecting. It's totally fair to look back at the lyrics now and say "wow, I consider that kind of creepy in light of new information", aka inferring based on current knowledge that there may be some nefarious/creepy angle to some of the meaning that you choose to see behind these lyrics. It's not totally fair to project your (correct) beliefs about Jesse being a pedo on old lyrics and make statements as a matter of fact, like "he's been singing about abusing underage girls for years". I think we're on the same page, now. That's all.

ummm, yeah people probably would. trying to understand motivations of people who do horrible things is pretty common.

You have got to be kidding me, dude. Those are ridiculous and fantastical examples. Jesse Lacey literally wrote lyrics about taking advantage of underage girls. After the accusations, you see those lyrics the same way? It's not the same at all.

Those things usually never come when you got the scratch.

lol, unrelated to the current back and forth - but do some of you really believe that if someone wrote something then it must be an immediate reflection of themselves, if not completely true and an accurate representation of them as a person? I mean is that real? Like... do you think George Lucas has a lot of space travel or light incest experience? Did Stephen King hack up his family one winter when he was stuck at a hotel? Did Conor Oberst's mom really drown his baby brother in a bathtub when he was a kid? Did Bob Marley really shoot the sheriff and the deputy? Or just the sheriff? Let's get over the fact that lyrics can mean anything and interpretation of their content, when it comes to something like this, is an idiotic waste of time. It was determined back in 2014 that violent rap lyrics could not be used as evidence in court cases... because they are FICTION.

that's a known comedian, troll "meme" account, and it's obviously extremely sarcastic. i think your outrage detector might be malfunctioning

Just an FYI, you don't need a VMP membership to buy the SVE album from their store. You'll notice it doesn't have a "Member's Exclusive" banner over it so anyone can buy it.

sorry, but you can't say something so daft and claim "devil's advocate." "devil's advocate" is reserved for a reasonable presentation of counterfactuals, and the fact you don't realize the first thing about the relationship of abuse, trauma, and mental illness disqualifies you here. as others have said, you're actually gaslighting and victim blaming, and talking out your hiney in doing so. perhaps, to be fair, it was initially an unwitting error on your part. but honestly you can be quiet about how misunderstood you are when your original point is, as you admit yourself, to undermine the credibility of a victim.

But it's not like there's been any shortage of misogynist bullshit in this thread, what with Sunshine straight-up lying about Larkin Grimm...

If they repressed Beyond Hypothermia, I would gladly buy a copy, but not at some stupid “save our label” price. If they just bent even in the slightest to what fans and collectors wanted, it might be better for business. Always supported Aaron and HHR, and will, but the “hey, we found old stock, come spend a fortune on it” yard sale thing is off-putting.

In the with confidence situation the victim posted all the screen shots and its very disturbing

ok so the rumors were true. looks like they are wrapping up an "amazing" career at this time this year now.

aussie smoke finally arrived in Belgium. Prices on discogs are already bonkers.

Did anyone catch anamanaguchi's livestream a few days ago? They played a bunch of new songs from the upcoming [USA] album. Here's the show: And the setlist:

So why wasn’t red door on the album?

Insanely good. Don't miss out.

I remember many years ago some guy at a record swap had on original pressing of Cool Struttin' in pristine condition for $200. I was younger and even poorer, but damn. Regrets.

You already let me know you were stupid I don't need more proof.

Of all days to stumble across 16 bucks lol.

The only thing I used AOL messenger for as a kid was an Even Stevens chat room

Love these new variants but I already have 4 of these including the clear one....... do i really need another?

Fuck me