daniel

Easily the grossest thing I've read on here.

I am with derek on this one, Daniel is a bitch, but you can lead a whore to water...................... see how lyrics can be interpretive to mean more than one thing? (albeit some are more explicitly focused than others) Hes A SJW whore. 

Well, nice thread. Got three or four new VC posters I know are awful people.
Easily the grossest thing I've read on here.

Lol, nothing in that wall of text resembles anything close to denouncement. Gosh, people really want this to be untrue.

Lol, nothing in that wall of text resembles anything close to denouncement. Gosh, people really want this to be untrue.

Lol, nothing in that wall of text resembles anything close to denouncement. Gosh, people really want this to be untrue.

this thread is doing such a terrific job of letting me know who is a shitty person.

In case anyone wonders why victims feel unsafe coming forward...

When your first response to accusations that a person who has written and sang about predatory behavior is to scour the accuser's social media for evidence of flaws, then suggest that she's not reliable because she has struggled with mental health, you're the part of the problem. "But if her reputation is truly on the line"... it's not. His is. You just WANT her to be lying.

Again, you're comparing two very different things. Jesse Lacey being a mobster is far-fetched. Him being an abuser is not. Not because of his lyrics, but because it's simply a much more realistic scenario for a person to be an abuser than a "mobster". Also, let's not forget, HE ADMITTED TO IT.

I never said I thought we should've seen the Lacey stuff coming. Nowhere in my posts did I suggest that. I've been a Brand New fan since Deja and always assumed (hoped?) he was writing characters as a means to criticize problematic behavior. I can't see the lyrics the same way anymore, because I'm a rational person who is considering that maybe someone I admired and gave the benefit of the doubt to for years didn't deserve it.

You have got to be kidding me, dude. Those are ridiculous and fantastical examples. Jesse Lacey literally wrote lyrics about taking advantage of underage girls. After the accusations, you see those lyrics the same way? It's not the same at all.

It's quite sensible not to rush to judgment when someone is accused of something without proof. Spreading information about the girl struggling with mental health in an effort to play devil's advocate cast doubt on her story is not. It just perpetuates the rape denial climate that we know is very real. Also his snark and condescension (ie "you don’t need me to copy and paste a WebMD definition for that, do you?", "Delayed thanks to extended production time, to fortify the sleeve so you can’t break it over your head for Likes.") aren't helping his case.

When your first response to accusations that a person who has written and sang about predatory behavior is to scour the accuser's social media for evidence of flaws, then suggest that she's not reliable because she has struggled with mental health, you're the part of the problem. "But if her reputation is truly on the line"... it's not. His is. You just WANT her to be lying.

When your first response to accusations that a person who has written and sang about predatory behavior is to scour the accuser's social media for evidence of flaws, then suggest that she's not reliable because she has struggled with mental health, you're the part of the problem. "But if her reputation is truly on the line"... it's not. His is. You just WANT her to be lying.

It's quite sensible not to rush to judgment when someone is accused of something without proof. Spreading information about the girl struggling with mental health in an effort to play devil's advocate cast doubt on her story is not. It just perpetuates the rape denial climate that we know is very real. Also his snark and condescension (ie "you don’t need me to copy and paste a WebMD definition for that, do you?", "Delayed thanks to extended production time, to fortify the sleeve so you can’t break it over your head for Likes.") aren't helping his case.

ummm, yeah people probably would.  trying to understand motivations of people who do horrible things is pretty common.

I never said I thought we should've seen the Lacey stuff coming. Nowhere in my posts did I suggest that. I've been a Brand New fan since Deja and always assumed (hoped?) he was writing characters as a means to criticize problematic behavior. I can't see the lyrics the same way anymore, because I'm a rational person who is considering that maybe someone I admired and gave the benefit of the doubt to for years didn't deserve it.

It's quite sensible not to rush to judgment when someone is accused of something without proof. Spreading information about the girl struggling with mental health in an effort to play devil's advocate cast doubt on her story is not. It just perpetuates the rape denial climate that we know is very real. Also his snark and condescension (ie "you don’t need me to copy and paste a WebMD definition for that, do you?", "Delayed thanks to extended production time, to fortify the sleeve so you can’t break it over your head for Likes.") aren't helping his case.

When your first response to accusations that a person who has written and sang about predatory behavior is to scour the accuser's social media for evidence of flaws, then suggest that she's not reliable because she has struggled with mental health, you're the part of the problem. "But if her reputation is truly on the line"... it's not. His is. You just WANT her to be lying.

Well, nice thread. Got three or four new VC posters I know are awful people.
Easily the grossest thing I've read on here.

1% my ass. tons of comments here and on socials/other forums, including yours, range from grossly naive to a defense of pedophilia. 

your lil gem, quoted above, belongs to the former. everything you've named here – mental disorders, panic, deep trauma when confronted with dredging things up – is a textbook example of the vile outworkings of grooming, sexual abuse, and manipulation. the fact you interpret it as potential indication of slander is irresponsible and clearly indicates you should not comment so crassly on something you clearly have no experience with.
 
 

You're starting from a position that the victim is not credible and then you proceeded to look through their social media account looking for clues.  That is not what I'd call a rational response. 
What are the characteristics of a credible victim? Is there a consistent enough set of behaviors amongst all victims of this kind of crime that one can confidently decide which are credible? Who decides whether a victim's behavior, absent of the law's assessment, is credible or believable or correct? Would that person need any training or skills to be able to confidently make those assessments? If there is an absence of enough information to answer any of these questions reliably, what do the national statistics on victims of this crime say about false reports?
As boring as they are, those are rational questions you might ask if your gut instinct is to doubt the victim. Instead, what a lot of people have done, is try to improvise their own theory or philosophy on assault using very faulty information (such as their love of Brand New/Jesse Lacey, their memory of the Conor Oberst case, their gut feelings about women, their gut feelings about men, and, in extreme cases, overt propaganda against women). It makes total sense that you'd mishandle the reaction to this if you're cranking out a hot take on the fly but, if you really are trying to be rational and helpful, please be open to your initial assessment being misguided. Please don't double down on your on-the-fly hot take when you're presented with information that is new to you in regards to this specific case and also sexual assault/harassment cases, in general. The person "correcting" you may be doing it in a dickish way and I know it sucks to have someone mock or push back against something you came up with but please temporarily overlook that frustration and be open to the idea that women have some decent information to add to your perspective and that phrases like "believe victims" are used for a reason and that reason isn't to eradicate due process of law or to personally emasculate the male gender.
There will be bad dudes who will delight in running victims through the mud, making LOL memes about sexual assault, and pretending to love sexual harassers/assaulters. Don't fall on their side of this stuff. Be OK with making mistakes and improving your reactions to these stories. At the very least, if you're not ready to go full 'believe victims', give the person speaking out a little more space and don't be the 100th dude saying "What happened to innocent until proven guilty/It says on her Tumblr that she is bipolar/She could have lied to him about her age" etc etc.

Well, nice thread. Got three or four new VC posters I know are awful people.
Easily the grossest thing I've read on here.