Beginner Equipment Question

[bcb375]

Hi, all...I've read through all the beginner threads and there are a few things about how all this stuff works that are still unclear to me; I think I understand, but want to verify with the experts (that's you...).

 

I'm probably making it more difficult for myself by trying to do things which I think are incompatible, so hopefully that's the answer, but longer replies for my education are much appreciated.

 

First, I own the following equipment:

- A Yamaha "surround sound in a box" 5.1 system with no phono input; originally purchased for tv/movie usage.

- Genius SP-HF1800A powered speakers. These speakers are rated at 50W (I know that probably means nothing, but included here for completeness).

 

I'm currently running an AT-60 table (purchased before reading the directions here...) through the CD line on this reciever to all 5 speakers and the included sub on simulated 2.1 from the surround sound set. I've also successfully connected the powered speakers direct to the table for testing purposes.

 

My intention is to get on the waiting list for a u-turn orbit plus as my first real table.

 

My questions go to what comes after that in the component chain:

 

Option A:I  think I know that I can get a pre-amp, hook my existing powered speakers into it, and call it a day..for now, until the upgrade bug you all speak of hits me. If I go this way, I'm looking at the Cambridge Audio Azure 551P. The downside is that I don't get to put the subwoofer in the chain.

 

Option B: I also think I know that I can get an integrated amplifier, hook my existing powered speakers and subwoofer into it, and call it a day, until upgrade, etc....I'm looking at the Yamaha A-S300 for this. I think this option provides for the most future flexibility.

 

Specific questions:

 

1) If I go with option B, am I going to destroy the powered speakers by sending too much signal to them?

 

2) If yes to the 1), can these speakers be used unpowered, since the reading I've done seems to indicate that in an integrated amplifier setup, unpowered (bookshelf) speakers are the way to go. Essentally, I'm asking if there a physical reason this won't work given the fact that the speakers are meant to be powered. If powered speakers can't be used this way, is that a general rule, or is there something specific about these speakers that prevents it?

 

3) Is there an option C, to use the the Yamaha speakers I own with the integrated amp? The speakers only have stereo wire connections. I think I know that I'm only going to be able to use two speakers, plus the sub, but do connectors/converters exist which terminate in an RCA jack on one end (for the amp side) and speaker wire on the other (for the speakers)?

 

4) Is there an option D, to get a preamp, and put it between the table and the existing reciever I have? Am I going to lose enough quality with all those connections to negate the effort of going to vinyl?

 

5) Is there an option E that I don't know about?

 

Of all the options I think I know, is there one that I must avoid like a Crosley, or an obvious winner that's far superior to anything else?

 

If you're still reading, thank you. I appreciate any help and/or insights you may be able to provide.

[jase]

I'd go Option C.

 

Table>integrated amp>new speakers.

 

To be honest, home theatre in a box is usually pretty....poor quality for movies and TV. And it's just terrible for stereo. You'd actually be better off having separate systems for stereo and movies.

 

Sometimes that's not an option. In which case i'd personally forgo the movies. Just plug your TV/bluray/dvd/laptop in to your integrated amp and use those two speakers instead of surround sound.

[allenh]

I'd go Option C.

 

Table>integrated amp>new speakers.

 

To be honest, home theatre in a box is usually pretty....poor quality for movies and TV. And it's just terrible for stereo. You'd actually be better off having separate systems for stereo and movies.

 

Sometimes that's not an option. In which case i'd personally forgo the movies. Just plug your TV/bluray/dvd/laptop in to your integrated amp and use those two speakers instead of surround sound.

 

Jase pretty much nailed it but just to expand and reiterate his post

 

Integrated or separate pre/power for music and surround for movies.

 

don't wire an integrated or any power amp to powered speakers, 2x power does not mean more it usually means smoke and a burning plastic smell.

 

if you have a decent amp and speakers you don't need a sub woofer.

 

a decent hifi amp and speakers does a thing called imaging where if you and the speakers are all positioned correctly in the room the effect is that the musicians are all around you which is what surround sound cheats at doing by having multiple speakers and multiple audio signals all encoded together., the problem is when you put a normal two channel stereo signal into a 5 or 7 channel amplifier it doesn't know what to do and makes an arse of it.

[allenh]

Forgot to say, options C and D will work in the short term but take into account the above.

 

An integrated amp will have either 4mm banana sockets/binding posts or push connectors for the speaker wire so to use your surround speakers there may be adaptors from RCA to two banana or to two bare ends but I would expect you would need to remove the RCA's to use them.

 

binding posts just unscrew and you wrap the bare wire round and tighten up, they also usually have a 4mm hole in them for banana plugs which are easy to get and fit to the bare wire, you just need a screwdriver although some are solder on.

 

push connectors have a button you push which opens a hole that the bare wire goes into, when you release the button the wire is clamped.

 

Last thing don't ever wire more than one speaker to an output on an amplifier unless you have a firm understanding of impedance and ohms law.

[bcb375]

All, thanks for the good information. Sounds like the only part I have which can be reused is the surround speakers; the home theater receiver, sub and powered speakers are going back in the closet.

 

This begets two additional questions:

 

1) The connections on the speakers are push connectors as allenh described above, and there are only two of them. I think this means I can go directly from the A binding posts to the push connectors on the back of the existing surround speakers and get music...or should I only be using a single kind of connector? If so, that eliminates the surround speakers as well, since I'd need speakers with binding posts or banana plugs.

 

2) In looking at pictures of the Audioengine A4 speakers as reference, since they seem to be fairly popular here, I see what appear to be two binding post connections on each speaker. However, the Yamaha amp manual describes an option for a bi-wire connection which uses the A and B binding posts to "separate the woofer from the combined midrange and tweeter section". 

 

Should I be looking for speakers with the bi-wire connection option, or is that going to push me into four digit speaker territory, in terms of price?

 

Thanks again for your help, and patience!

[allenh]

on point 1 yes correct, usually on a speaker or amplifier binding posts mean better quality but that's not always true.

 

on point 2 you are pretty much there. Bi amping means 2 amplifiers per speaker and not to be confused with bi wiring (a complete waste of time and money).

 

To bi amp the amp and speakers must be capable of this. Your amp does it as the manual says so but not all amps with A and B speaker outs do it so that's a good sign as it means that your amplifier has 4 distinct output stages or at least 2 that are man enough with being split into 2 again.

 

The speakers need a minimum of two sets of binding posts or push connectors and they will be split up for LF (low frequency) and HF (high frequency), for normal use you would normally link between them to use them in normal single amp mode. For bi amping you have two sets of speaker cables per speaker and wire A to one set of binding posts and B to the other with the speaker links removed. The + red and - black have to be the right way round but It doesn't matter which set of binding posts on the speaker A or B goes to as the crossover is still being used in the speaker and it does the splitting but obviously you should keep the same scheme across Left and right.

 

Ideally you would wire amp right A to right speaker HF, amp right B to right speaker LF, amp left A to left speaker HF and amp left B to left speaker LF.

 

Speakers that have this function are called bi wire-able and it's been around for years so no it should not cost you the earth.

 

Just for clarity some people started running two sets of cables to their bi wire-able speaker from a single outlet on their amplifier which is when you have a bi wired system rather than bi amped, it's utterly pointless and is only a gain to those that make and sell speaker cable.

 

There are also multi way speakers that have more than 2 sets of binding posts so that you can tri or even quad amp but you can still bi amp to these as you just remove less links and as long as you don't leave links in between amps or isolate a set of binding posts on the speaker so that no amp wires or links go to them it works fine.

 

There is also active but that's something else altogether and needs a lot more splitting up of amplifiers and equipment.

[bcb375]

All,

 

Many thanks again for all your help as I begin this hobby; the final selection I went with was:

 

Polk Audio 65T ($265/pair at newegg, in case it help anyone out...)

Yamaha A-S500 (Like new at Amazon Warehouse, same price as the new A-S300)

Pro-Ject Debut Carbon table; since U-Turn pushed their shipping out again, and I have no patience

 

I believe all of these components are relatively within the same range in terms of quality; I'm aware that a system is only as good as the worst component; hopefully there are no outliers in the group.

 

Looking forward to hearing my music for the first time for real!