Shoegaze/Dream Pop Thread

[TheGhostOfRandySavage]

1 hour ago, RobertSmith said:

its seems for 2xlp its the going rate.

Nope.

14 minutes ago, RobertSmith said:

 

I agree with you. All your points are valid, and make sense. That being said...Club AC30, Sonic Cathedral, Newbury (ones I could think of), while goes against your point of X and Y, are selling records for well above that range, in terms of 2LP sets. And thats taking into accounts that they are buying 1000 of these and not just 300, which should make the price go down, not up. I believe if Topshelf and Deathwish, started their label this week, their LPs would be $36 PPD. They are self run, but have been in the business for a very long time. How much do the so-called "Deluxe" 2LP editions for all the latest Relapse sell for? I paid $40 for my True Widow, and all that had was a turntable mat. I have to go by what the standard is, because, what other way are you going to set the bar on prices? Yes, if you think in an economics way, yes, makes complete sense. I tried to start a diy awhile back, and unless you do Pirate Press, its just too much money to press vinyl, especially in small runs. 

I can count on one hand the number of times I've paid more than $30 retail for a 2xlp, and I can count on my dick the amount of times I've thought, "this is totally ok that they're charging this much."

Part of the problem is you're throwing places like Newbury (who are a store, not a label) in here that just charge a premium to folks who don't know any better so they can have the "pretty colored vinyls"

[rooks]

And to add some more detail/context to my previous reply.

 

IDIB sells 1xLPs for $15 and 2xLPs for $20. So, don't for a second think that it actually costs $15+ to add a second hunk of plastic to a package. It's just padding the profit margin when they're priced so high.

[RobertSmith]

3 minutes ago, The Ghost of Randy Savage said:

Nope.

I can count on one hand the number of times I've paid more than $30 retail for a 2xlp, and I can count on my dick the amount of times I've thought, "this is totally ok that they're charging this much."

Part of the problem is you're throwing places like Newbury (who are a store, not a label) in here that just charge a premium to folks who don't know any better so they can have the "pretty colored vinyl"

Look man, dont hate the player, hate the game, you guys are smart record buyers. I threw Newbury in there as an example of what is setting the bar. Italians do it better, have been in business for a long time and have a cult following at this point, which was my point about Deathwish and Topshelf. I'm not saying any of you are wrong. 

[RobertSmith]

20 minutes ago, rooks said:

And to add some more detail/context to my previous reply.

 

IDIB sells 1xLPs for $15 and 2xLPs for $20. So, don't for a second think that it actually costs $15+ to add a second hunk of plastic to a package. It's just padding the profit margin when they're priced so high.

Can you show me the numbers on that? Number of copies and pressing plant cost. Again, you guys are right, but how certain can you be of whats driving the cost behind the prices? 

Edited June 9, 2017 by RobertSmith

[THE_James_Champ]

12 minutes ago, RobertSmith said:

I hope These guys are reading and I get commission, ha.

I miss the downvote.

[RobertSmith]

1 minute ago, THE_James_Champ said:

I miss the downvote.

Sorry, I apologize for the joke, ill take that down. This why I lurk. ***Walks away.

[rooks]

13 minutes ago, RobertSmith said:

Can you show me the numbers on that? Number of copies and pressing plant cost. Again, you guys are right, but how certain can you be of whats driving the cost behind the prices? 

I hope These guys are reading and I get commission, ha.

Well, let's use our brain a bit.. if someone is pricing at 35 and someone is pricing at 20, consistently over several years.

 

It's safe to assume the guy pricing at 20 dollars isn't losing money consistently, because that's idiotic and would not last. So, with that assumption and assuming the price of making records is fairly standard, at bare break even (which let's also admit is not how a company does business. Even with a "cult following") the other company is making 15 dollars profit more than the other, for the same exact product...

 

It's hard to make it much clearer than that. If the company charging 35 is using a pressing company that charges 2x it's competitors then they are doing a bad job.

 

The point is, profit on vinyl is LOW, and that's a fact. Nothing surprising about a company padding that number to make it worth their while, but nothing wrong with seeing through the BS and recognizing pure profit markup for what it is.

[RobertSmith]

18 minutes ago, rooks said:

Well, let's use our brain a bit.. if someone is pricing at 35 and someone is pricing at 20, consistently over several years.

 

It's safe to assume the guy pricing at 20 dollars isn't losing money consistently, because that's idiotic and would not last. So, with that assumption and assuming the price of making records is fairly standard, at bare break even (which let's also admit is not how a company does business. Even with a "cult following") the other company is making 15 dollars profit more than the other, for the same exact product...

 

It's hard to make it much clearer than that. If the company charging 35 is using a pressing company that charges 2x it's competitors then they are doing a bad job.

 

The point is, profit on vinyl is LOW, and that's a fact. Nothing surprising about a company padding that number to make it worth their while, but nothing wrong with seeing through the BS and recognizing pure profit markup for what it is.

How many are they pressing vs pressing plant price. That affects costs. Its easy to assume. Also, what is the profit margin vs sales? Im just saying this because this release is only 300 copies. When you press 1000 and you know people are going to buy them, you can afford to charge $20. You can argue averages all day. But what you are implying is that these guys are trying to make money here based of what you believe you know, is causing it to be $10 more than the norm. The fact is you dont REALLY knowing all the facts. I don't know for sure, so I don't assume. I'll leave it at that.

Edited June 9, 2017 by RobertSmith

[OneThreeOneTwo]

Shoegaze was always expensive because so much of it, besides obvious stuff like Galaxie 500, were UK imports. I feel the genre has since persistently gone for that higher-quality European vinyl packaging and mastering (180g > 140g, 45rpm if possible). It's always been a "collector's genre" like synth/synthwave, new age, and a few other 70s/80s early electronic sounds. Not saying it's right or anything but just an observation.

[rooks]

1 minute ago, RobertSmith said:

How many are they pressing vs pressing plant price. That affects costs. Its easy to assume. Also, what is the profit margin vs sales? Im just saying this because this release is only 300 copies. When you press 1000 and you know people are going to buy them, you can afford to charge $20. You can argue averages all day. But what you are implying is that these guys are trying to make money here based of what you think you know, is causing it to be $10 more than the norm, without knowing all the facts. I don't know for sure, so I don't assume. I'll leave it at that.

 I get it now. 

 

 

[RobertSmith]

23 minutes ago, rooks said:

 

Thats the best response. Well done. Haha

 

[Derek™]

I also wanted to chime in that I enjoyed that 93mil track, and will gladly check out the album.  And that I never meant to imply that this brand new DIY label will be laughing their way to the bank with insane profit margins, or anything like that.  Just that it's a slippery slope to gradually accept RSD prices as the norm.  "Can't afford $50 for a limited edition LP?  Get the fuck out of the hobby and stop complaining" is an absurd, toxic notion... but I (regrettably) feel like it's something that people will post sooner than later, at this rate.

[drds89]

Y'all do know this is Jorge/George aka "neemus" on IG and "deoxitizer" here right; I think formerly "NEE..." as well

He is very passionate re: vinyl and all things shoegaze, sometimes get a little ahead of himself $ wise.  Posts a tonne of impressive OG vinyl on Instagram.

Super, super nice guy, but tbh we've had some ups and downs with transactions. At one point, he let his discogs buyer rating go down into the 60% range for nonpayment when he overbuys and gets behind in the credit dept. 

Hope he has everything together for this 1st release of String Light. I wish him all the best and not trying to trash anyone here, but I think full disclosure/ due diligence is in order and my conscience is clear. Again, I hope everything goes smoothly for Jorge, and he can these done, in and out to everyone in a timely fashion.  I do like 93mmfts alot, as you can tell from my collection, but only one track on this really gets me going. I love them at their shoegazedrone game best.

Discogs buyer feedback

 

[Derek™]

And please don't tell me I'm the only one who appreciates the irony behind the pricey, high quality, virgin vinyl, top fidelity U.K. pressing for shoegaze, of all genres.

[jrodan]

8 minutes ago, drds89 said:

Y'all do know this is Jorge/George aka "neemus" on IG and "deoxitizer" here right; I think formerly "NEE..." as well

He is very passionate re: vinyl and all things shoegaze, sometimes get a little ahead of himself $ wise.  Posts a tonne of impressive OG vinyl on Instagram.

Super, super nice guy, but tbh we've had some ups and downs with transactions. At one point, he let his discogs buyer rating go down into the 60% range for nonpayment when he overbuys and gets behind in the credit dept.

Hope he has everything together for this 1st release of String Light. I wish him all the best and not trying to trash anyone here, but I think full disclosure/ due diligence is in order and my conscience is clear. Again, I hope everything goes smoothly for Jorge, and he can these done, in and out to everyone in a timely fashion.  I do like 93mmfts alot, as you can tell from my collection, but only one track on this really gets me going. I love them at their shoegazedrone game best.

Discogs buyer feedback

 

thanks for this. more reason to make an easy pass.

[RobertSmith]

Yikes, this just got ugly. 

[drds89]

3 hours ago, RobertSmith said:

Yikes, this just got real.

I've paid more, much more for records. It's about the love of the music first for me, then the medium, the art, the band, the nostalgia/associations, etc. (not necessarily in that order after the music).  There is also a good bit of drama and not so infrequent butthurt that seems to envelope the indie music world and vinyl hobbyists. 

Again, not ugly, I sincerely hope Jorge can pull this off, as he is one of the most passionate and knowledgeable collectors/purveyors of this genre, who wants to see a great band get their music onto vinyl.

[RobertSmith]

Haha, thats awesome. You want him to succeed, by telling people to stay away. Only on VC.

Anywho, there's always paypal claim if this fool wants play hookie.

--------------

Back to business tho, does anyone have the new Cranes MOV reissue? Thoughts?

I got the Swervedriver and it has some serious pops , the first track is unlistenable. Waiting to bear back from seller. 

[jrodan]

8 minutes ago, RobertSmith said:

Haha, thats awesome. You want him to succeed, by telling people to stay away. Only on VC.

Anywho, there's always paypal claim if this fool wants play hookie.

--------------

Back to business tho, does anyone have the new Cranes MOV reissue? Thoughts?

I got the Swervedriver and it has some serious pops , the first track is unlistenable. Waiting to bear back from seller.

I do not see anywhere he said for people to stay away. just giving people information that may help in their deciding of whether they should possibly give this dude an interest free loan. for me, I will wait and see whether the record is produced, and when it is I will give consideration to buying it. but trusting a label that has never put anything out with a pre-order is a dangerous game.

 

 

------------------------

 

I have both the Cranes and Swervedriver reissues and they both sound excellent.

[Deoxitizer]

31 minutes ago, jrodan said:

I do not see anywhere he said for people to stay away. just giving people information that may help in their deciding of whether they should possibly give this dude an interest free loan. for me, I will wait and see whether the record is produced, and when it is I will give consideration to buying it. but trusting a label that has never put anything out with a pre-order is a dangerous game.

 

 

------------------------

 

I have both the Cranes and Swervedriver reissues and they both sound excellent.

Cool. Ill jump on the Cranes from ebay.

Edited June 9, 2017 by Deoxitizer

[RobertSmith]

8 minutes ago, Deoxitizer said:

 

8 minutes ago, Deoxitizer said:

Cool. Ill jump on the Cranes from ebay.

^^ this.

[jrodan]

as far as Cranes goes, you may wanna try this link:

 

http://www.juno.co.uk/products/cranes-forever-reissue/647465-01/

 

shipping is ridiculously fair and they have every MOV release, so you can possibly grab some other stuff you want. I actually got both Swervedriver and Cranes there for $47.12ppd and they arrived minty fresh.

 

@Deoxitizer@RobertSmith

Edited June 9, 2017 by jrodan

[RobertSmith]

17 minutes ago, Deoxitizer said:

 

 

I assume D was referring to the seller from Germany, asking 31.05 shipped for the colored variant. But that Juno blows it away. 

[Deoxitizer]

42 minutes ago, RobertSmith said:

 

 

I assume D was referring to the seller from Germany, asking 31.05 shipped for the colored variant. But that Juno blows it away. 

Yep

[the industry]

7 hours ago, rooks said:

http://italiansdoitbetter.bigcartel.com/ - $20 2LPs on the reg.

 

Also that's proper gatefold, 2lp colored vinyl, with liner notes. PLUS HUGE included newspaper-style posters for future releases and 95% of the time an included CD or 2 of old releases as well.

 

For $20.

 

 

Whats the pressing? The bigger the pressing the more you can scale the costs, and get price breaks on all the individual parts, making for a cheaper product. They might even have volume discounts for all the other albums they're pressing this month / year.

 

The other thing here is that while IDIB is not a massive label by any means, they're still an established, functioning label with steady releases and steady cash flow. This other label is new and this is their FIRST release. 

 

Basically, a label that has been operating for awhile (and has an established customer base) is going to be able to offer things cheaper than an upstart. That's just economics.