The hunt for my first high-end speakers

[JumpingBean]

Those that know my setup know It's gotten pretty serious in the past year.  Now, everything is pretty substantial except for my speakers, and while I love my JBLs, they are by far the weakest link in my chain.  So the hunt has begun for a full range speaker to pair with my McIntosh stack.

The two big contenders I'm looking at are Dynaudio Excite X38 and Focal Aria 936.

While I havent had an opportunity to hear these specific models (no showroom in NYC or Austin has them), I have heard the Aria 926 and Aria 948 as well as the Dynaudio X34 and was very impressed.  The 948's were my favorite but too big for my room and too expensive.  The 926's were impressive on their own, and I'm sure the additional bass driver will only increase my liking. 

The x34's had great clarity, soundstage, and dynamics, but I was wanting for more bass.  This is why i want to hear the x38's.  I heard the Focus series that has the same driver configuration as the X38's and they blew me away, so I feel like the large excites will do nicely for me.

Paired with fairly warm Mac gear I feel like both of these speakers will have good synergy.  I tried the PSB Imagine T2's and while the bass impressed me, I they didn't have the open sound that the Dynaudio's or Focal's had.  Everything sounded a bit more muddied and I feel like they wouldn't pair well with warm amplification.  I also listened to the Nola contender which was far too polite for my musical tastes, and the Goldenear Triton 2, which to be honest sounded sloppy and unrefined.

I like the B&W D series, but they're out of my price range, and I didn't care for the CM's at all.  Too muffled for my taste.  Same goes for the Sonus Faber although they sounded quite good on some jazz records.


Anyone else have any suggestions as to something I should demo?  I want to keep it to box speakers.  I dont like Planar/Electrostat and I don't have the space for horns.

My Mac gear give me 150wpc so I can't go for anything obnoxiously power hungry.

[slinch]

If you're looking at these at retail, I know it's a special feeling opening up brand new speakers, bot you could get a pair of $10k+ speakers in this price range (aound $4k I'm guessing).

 

I too love the Dynaudio sound and to me personally every B&W speaker below the 800 series sounds muffled. If you enjoy the way Dynaudios sound, try checking out some Dali speakers. They are very similar, but to me they have a slight edge when it comes to "airiness" (I'm really not good at describing sound,). There's a pair of their amazing Euphonia MS4 on audiogon for a quarter of the retail price, but local pickup only: http://app.audiogon.com/listings/full-range-dali-euphonia-ms-4-rouge-alpi-2014-10-19-speakers

If this was in Europe, I'd pick them up in a heartbeat. These are in a league of their own, I'd put them on par with (maybe even above) the B&W 802D.

 

If you're firm on buying new, I'll give it some thought and post back.

[JumpingBean]

The problem I have with buying used is the lack of dealer/warranty support.  If I'm dropping 4K on a pair of speakers I want things like a return period, technical support, warranty, etc.  I also have no way of auditioning those Dali's.

I was interested for a while in the Ikon series, but I read some reviews that were less than stellar.

[allenh]

Also consider you are driving your speakers with valves (tubes) and valve and solid state amplifiers have very different loading and sensitivity requirements so you need to audition your speakers driven by valves or at least ask the question as you might not like the results.

 

If you were in the UK I would go Lumley or Audio Note as they make valve amplifiers and the speakers to go with them or possibly World Audio Designs or Wilmslow Audio but in the US it might be worth having a chat with McIntosh and see what their thoughts are.

 

Might also be worth looking at the sites of the manufacturers I've listed above as these will give you some insights.

 

Mine I made myself using Wilmslow audio cabinets, a lot of maths and a lot of help from the guys at Wilmslow in selecting the drivers and crossovers. It's not something I think I'd attempt again.

[allenh]

Also forgot to mention if it's airiness you like then consider speakers with ribbon tweeters, very hard to get right as they can be overly bright at the very top but superb from the middle up when they are right.

 

As to the suggestions, I've not heard anything Dynaudio so can't comment there, I did audition a few of the better Focal's and Dali's and very much liked what I heard, but none of the models quoted above as this was all a few years ago, back then to my ear the Focal had the nicer sound,  improvements are always being made though.

 

On the B&W's I agree with Slinch, B&W's of old (70's) were generally bass light and too clinical at the top which is something they've tried to get away from and caused other problems.

[JumpingBean]

My McIntosh amp is solid state, I'm not using tubes in my chain.

[allenh]

My McIntosh amp is solid state, I'm not using tubes in my chain.

 

Ok ignore pretty much everything I said then apart from the bit about ribbon tweeters, assumption is a terrible thing

[JumpingBean]

I know the focals are really efficient, but do you think my 150 wpc of solid state mac is enough for the Dynaudio x38?  Its rated up to 250w handling and 88db.

[allenh]

Well the Focal's are vastly more efficient at 92db and have a higher power rating but yes I would expect them to be easier to drive than the Dynaudio's but like I say I've never heard or tried Dynaudio's so that's based just on the numbers and the various Focal's I've tried, there is no reason the Mac won't drive the Dynaudio's perfectly well though.

 

You are looking to spend a good lump of money so you want to be totally happy and you do really need to have a good listen to see if they do what you want when you are spending that sort of money on speakers, the salesman should be bending over backwards to provide you with equipment that helps to replicate what you have.

 

Do they not let you test them at home on your kit? The better dealers over here would do if you were a genuine buyer and had it nailed down to two choices to help you decide.

 

When I've spent large sums on bits of HiFi over the years I've wanted it to make me smile every time I’ve used it for a good while so it has to be the right choice and you can't make that choice without knowing how they will sound at home and with your kit.

[allenh]

One thing I will say though is as Slinch suggested don't ignore 2nd hand as expensive speakers loose an enormous amount of money and when someone spends that sort of money they tend to look after them.

[JumpingBean]

I'm at school right now so I don't have access to my mac gear.  The NYC Focal dealer had the 926's powered with a 100 wpc mcintosh and we never made it past 50% volume.  I've heard this big Dynaudio Focus here with a Line Magnetic integrated that was around 35 wpc or so and I never was wanting for more power, but I know tubes are different...

When I get back to Texas in December I can probably bring in my Mac seperates to demo the Dynaudio's, although it would still be the X34 or Focus because I doubt any dealer would order a pair of speakers just for a demo unless I've bought from them before (I haven't)

[allenh]

There will always be limitations to what you can buy locally wherever you are so you have to factor that in to your decision process but you are not talking about a whim purchase here.

 

This is why with high end gear I tend to go 2nd hand now, that way you buy it right and if you don't like it you can sell it on and if you are lucky make a little profit but I do know where you are coming from with warranties and dealer support and you really can't beat the feeling of having something brand new.

 

Sounds like you are taking your time over it which is a good thing which is a good thing with this sort of purchase.

[JumpingBean]

I just had two dealers offer me some pretty intense floor-sample deals on the Focus 260 and 340 respectively.  Don't tempt me bro...

[allenh]

Floor samples are generally good, they are run in and not the sort of speaker a salesman is going to let anyone play with unattended.

 

But like I say you need to like them so the price is very very important but shouldn't make you compromise on what you want as it's still going to be a lump of money whatever.

 

Like I say see if they will let you try them at home

[JumpingBean]

The dealer that has the huge discount on the Focus 340's is in new york, so I have to have them shipped.  I demo'd them with a 70wpc Naim amp so I feel like my Mcintosh could more than manage these monsters. They were one of the best speakers I've ever heard (I honestly liked them more than the B&W diamonds I've heard.  The only problem is that even with the discount they're still about 2 grand over my original budget...

[slinch]

I forgot to check back in with this thread.

 

JumpingBean, I completely understand being uncomfortable with buying second hand, I never felt uneasy buying used speakers, but somehow thought that turntables are too delicate to be a safe purchase.

 

Now I regret every purchase I made brand new (well apart from a pair of speakers that were down 60% because the store was closing). But thinking about it, speakers can only get damaged from improper use, but I cannot really see someone spending $5k-$10k on a pair and use them improperly. Maybe even check some dealers that sell used equipment, they often offer some kind of warranty (although the price is usually a bit higher as well). Plus, with these higher end models, manufacturers are very helpful, if you run into any kind of problems, they'll find a way to make it right, regardless of whether you bought it new or used.

 

The Focus 340's sell for roughly $3,5k used here. Now compare that to what you can get for the same price new. Now all this kind of sounds like I want to change your mind, but in all honesty I know the most important thing is to feel comfortable with your purchase. Just don't quickly disregard an option based on prejudice or something similar. With pretty much every second hand purchase in this range you'll have an option to extensively demo the equipment with the seller, and most of the time you can get an idea of the amount of care that the person put into handling their stuff in the first 5 minutes of talking to them.

[JumpingBean]

If a pair of Focus 340's come up on Audiogon I might consider it, but right now we're probably only looking at the 260's.  Even with the discount the 340's are just out of our price range.  A dealer is offering me 10% off the 260's, If I can push that to 20% I'll probably jump on it.

[Crabwalker]

Have you considered anything by Salk?

 

I own a pair of Songtowers with Ribbon tweeters that are paired with a  10" TC sub.  I used that set up for my vinyl listening until about 6 months ago.

 

I then got a good deal on a pair of Salk HT3s and couldn't pass it up. I now use those in the room for vinyl and moved the Songtowers to the TV room.

 

I can't say enough good about the Salk brand.  Jim Salk is a stand up guy and I have never heard of him giving anything but exceptional service.  The speakers also sound AMAZING.

 

I have had so many people over to listen to them and people always leave wanting more.

 

If you want deep bass and good clarity I'd suggest a pair of the Super Charged Song Towers.  They would come in under your $4k budget and I now you'd be more then happy with them. 

 

Or

 

For $4500 you can get the HT2-TL speakers. 

 

Or

 

You can check out his available for immediate deliver section.  He has a pair of HT3s up right now for like 3200.  Brand new those sparkers run close to 7k.  I know you are leery about buying used, but it's seriously the best value.  When I bought my HT3s, Jim actually refinished my plinth's b/c he noticed they were scuffed when packing them up.  

 

www.salksound.com

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=125313.0 (actually these are up for $2500.  THAT IS A STEAL!!!!

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=126964.0(these are $2600)

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=125985.0(these are $4700)

 

Just my .02

[JumpingBean]

I really wanted to buy the Focus 260 through my local HiFI dealer in Austin, but I just couldn't make the price he was quoting me... 

So I just pulled the trigger on a demo pair of new Focus 340 from a German dealer for $3,800 shipped to my door.  I know I don't get a US warranty, but 60% off is just too damn good to resist.  The strong dollar-to-euro ratio right now sealed the deal.

[allenh]

Nice!!

 

How long before they land? 

[JumpingBean]

They're shipping out by freight on monday, should make it to Texas in about 1-2 weeks.  However I won't even be able to open them until I get back from school in early December.  My family enjoys hifi, but I'm the only one who would have any idea how to set them up/handle them.

[Tardcore]

you really 180ed your position on buying new vs used.  grats!

[JumpingBean]

They are technically a new speaker.  They were a demo model in a german hifi dealer showroom, no previous owners.  And I do get full Dynaudio warranty, but only in the EU.  So if I have a problem I have to ship the speakers or a specific driver back to Europe.  Small price to pay for 4k off retail.

[mesi]

Can you tell us the name of the shop?

[JumpingBean]

Hifisound.de

The demo pair of Dynaudio's are gone obviously, but they have great deals on Tannoy's right now I noticed.  They're really nice and will work with you over phone/email to make sure everything works out.  It just happened to be a good option because the dollar is unusually strong right now.