batman Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Is that the cover art for it? Can't wait, fucking love Megaman. I just wish the cover art was a bit more creative. Pretty psyched for this. Gonna try for a pic disc and a colored. I really, really hope that's not the cover though. A blown up pixelated Mega Man is okay I guess, but couldn't you guys get one of those fantastic fan arts that they made a whole book out of? Also, is it time to summon Travis yet? What's wrong with the original MM cover art? Just look at that guy! love this. i hope spacelab gets more creative with the other pressings of this lp because there is so much potential not being met c'mon spacelab, at least something to think about going forward. I think that the perceived lack of creativity and webstore issues are the two biggest things that are keeping you from being top tier. it's not a good sign when customers are saying "I wish spacelab wasn't handling <X> release" (seen several times regarding the Fallout release). you have the ability to use this community to your advantage instead of being at odds with it. I think positive perception would grow quite rapidly with the number of really cool licenses you have and continue to get. HoneyFrosted, Robert_Sofa and attackconquer 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoneyFrosted Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 c'mon spacelab, at least something to think about going forward. I think that the perceived lack of creativity and webstore issues are the two biggest things that are keeping you from being top tier. it's not a good sign when customers are saying "I wish spacelab wasn't handling <X> release" (seen several times regarding the Fallout release). you have the ability to use this community to your advantage instead of being at odds with it. I think positive perception would grow quite rapidly with the number of really cool licenses you have and continue to get. Yeah, at the risk of beating this horse, if the first response you get upon the announcement is a resounding 'Wow that is some shitty cover art,' I think it's clear what you need to do, right? People are excited about every aspect of this release EXCEPT the cover art. And since expanded beautiful cover art is something most collectors treasure (especially as a factor in buying a release, trivial as it may seem), it would behoove you to realize that the art colors the way buyers look at the release. I just bought a release from Thing over here where you get to choose between two different covers, and I don't think there's any mistake about which cover is better. If that faded 60's psych-horror cover didn't exist, and only that stupid cartoon guys in an insane ward with Nurse Ratchet was available, I would seriously think twice about buying it because it looks silly. Hell, even that recent Moonshake Mega Man 2 OST bootleg - it was plain black and white, nothing crazy, but it parodied that David Bowie album which at least made it recognizable and sort of a charming inside joke. A giant, blocky Mega Man sprite is lazy and ugly. I'm still gonna buy it, because I'm a sucker for Mega Man and the release is going to be sick in other ways, but I'm less inclined to show it off or take it out in front of friends. I wouldn't be as proud of owning it. Alright, I swear that's it from me, enough about the cover, I'm still excited for the release and I hope everything goes smoothly for the label. batman and Blumplum 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kermit Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Yeah, at the risk of beating this horse, if the first response you get upon the announcement is a resounding 'Wow that is some shitty cover art,' I think it's clear what you need to do, right? People are excited about every aspect of this release EXCEPT the cover art. And since expanded beautiful cover art is something most collectors treasure (especially as a factor in buying a release, trivial as it may seem), it would behoove you to realize that the art colors the way buyers look at the release. I just bought a release from Thing over here where you get to choose between two different covers, and I don't think there's any mistake about which cover is better. If that faded 60's psych-horror cover didn't exist, and only that stupid cartoon guys in an insane ward with Nurse Ratchet was available, I would seriously think twice about buying it because it looks silly. Hell, even that recent Moonshake Mega Man 2 OST bootleg - it was plain black and white, nothing crazy, but it parodied that David Bowie album which at least made it recognizable and sort of a charming inside joke. A giant, blocky Mega Man sprite is lazy and ugly. I'm still gonna buy it, because I'm a sucker for Mega Man and the release is going to be sick in other ways, but I'm less inclined to show it off or take it out in front of friends. I wouldn't be as proud of owning it. Alright, I swear that's it from me, enough about the cover, I'm still excited for the release and I hope everything goes smoothly for the label. A lot of the time companies are only allowed to use select images from their license and have to work from them. Even a lot of the official Megaman merch isn't creativly exciting as the product's image can't be changed. So it could be down to what Capcom haven given Spacelab to work with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoneyFrosted Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 A lot of the time companies are only allowed to use select images from their license and have to work from them. Even a lot of the official Megaman merch isn't creativly exciting as the product's image can't be changed. So it could be down to what Capcom haven given Spacelab to work with. That's probably true, and if that's the case I'd probably have to shift all of my complaints over to Capcom, who most likely doesn't care either way unfortunately. But with a cursory glance at Discogs regarding Mega Man related musical releases, it seems Capcom has at least approved anime-type covers in the past - not to say that I would like that, but at least it's a hell of a lot more to look at than a big sprite. I wonder why Capcom wouldn't allow something like that now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kermit Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 That's probably true, and if that's the case I'd probably have to shift all of my complaints over to Capcom, who most likely doesn't care either way unfortunately. But with a cursory glance at Discogs regarding Mega Man related musical releases, it seems Capcom has at least approved anime-type covers in the past - not to say that I would like that, but at least it's a hell of a lot more to look at than a big sprite. I wonder why Capcom wouldn't allow something like that now. Without getting too deep into it, there are many different factors. When it's about international licenses (such as this release) they is usually a guideline of assets that they can use to accompany the ones dealing with the license. It would be generally easier for Capcom, the images are upscalable so they are versitile, and they follow strict guidelines as to how to use them. What Spacelab is doing is trying to cooperate with the fans and Capcom, it's basically voting for which assets they will use for the release from the ones given to them by Capcom. Take a look at Capcom's official store and at the Megaman section, it's all very much the same. The anime-style cover soundtracks are actually official assets, even Nintendo had to use them for certain Megaman DLC promotions. Japan has had many original custom cover designs for their remix albums, I don't know how that works but I believe it involves Capcom's approval and a professional designer, perhaps an in-house Capcom artist. HoneyFrosted 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoneyFrosted Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Without getting too deep into it, there are many different factors. When it's about international licenses (such as this release) they is usually a guideline of assets that they can use to accompany the ones dealing with the license. It would be generally easier for Capcom, the images are upscalable so they are versitile, and they follow strict guidelines as to how to use them. Very informative post, thanks very much. It sounds like SpaceLab may have been dealt a kind of 'standard-boiler-plate' in terms of the assets you mentioned. If that's the case, I know I wouldn't wanna be the one to deal with that legal red tape. Good on them for that. But some nagging feeling tells me that given all that, there STILL must have been other options. I'm incredibly ignorant on this topic so I should probably just shut up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abovetheearth Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 mondo has options it seems with much bigger clients. who knows. quick releases calls for quick art. with the mega man art only, it still could have been much more pleasing. I have plenty of shitty art albums tho. it is what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoneyFrosted Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 mondo has options it seems with much bigger clients. who knows. quick releases calls for quick art. with the mega man art only, it still could have been much more pleasing. I have plenty of shitty art albums tho. it is what it is. It's possible that Capcom has had enough shitty knockoffs that it may take it's licensing much more seriously than some big name movie studios. I don't know about any of that. I guess in the end I feel like, if a random band has shitty album art it's kinda like, well, whatever, because I didn't know what to expect anyway. (except for Black Flag's 'What The..') One of my favorite albums ever is Them, Roaringtwenties - Future Sandwich. That is a fucking mess. But the album is wacky and manic and, it somehow fits. With something like Mega Man, there's such a rich history and huge fan following that you can't help but believe there's so much material to draw on, so seeing a cover like that is that much more of a disappointment. Okay, wow, I really need to stop going on, I apologize. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPACELAB9 Posted June 11, 2015 Author Share Posted June 11, 2015 Kermit is rather wise. Seriously. While we appreciate everyone's input constructive or otherwise, we standby our work 100%. While this trend of re- imagining iconography is obviously exciting to others it is just something that doesn't appeal to us in the slightest. Despite what many may think, we certainly do indeed take all of the ideas, recommendations that people on these very forums have shared with us into consideration all throughout Spacelab9's tenure. In fact some suggestions have been implemented while other have been discarded but not without consideration. The reality is we will never be able to make everyone happy. With every release some people are going to be thrilled and others are going to be disappointed. It is just the way things go. What matters is that there will be some Mega Man fans who are thrilled about this release, three of which bias aside are all of us here at Spacelab9. We try to be as inclusive as possible in the process to create content that is exciting to fans but at the end of the day there are some who will praise us and others that will curse us for the decisions we do or don't make, it is what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoneyFrosted Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Props for the response, SpaceLab. I'm going to resist the urge to go on about this and instead say that if Elec Man or Cut Man don't win for the variant contest I'm going to go pout somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFP Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 How about a recommendation SpaceLab to finally fix your website? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPACELAB9 Posted June 11, 2015 Author Share Posted June 11, 2015 How about a recommendation SpaceLab to finally fix your website? A new one, top to bottom, will be launching shortly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
batman Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 A new one, top to bottom, will be launching shortly.Now that is great news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rip Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 I guess in a way, allowing us to vote on what variant we want kind of makes up for the album art. I think that's really cool. SPACELAB9 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucleus Sests Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 While this trend of re- imagining iconography is obviously exciting to others it is just something that doesn't appeal to us in the slightest. This has nothing to do with "re-imagining iconography," the design looks terrible aesthetically and from a design perspective. I'm not saying this to be rude or combative, but you're working on a product that I care a lot about and it looks like a cheap Korean bookbag. You can do a lot of cool things with pixel-art, but taking something made with a few hundred pixels and blowing it up to take up 90% of the cover is an objectively horrible idea. If you honestly say you "stand by your work" then I would seriously consider hiring someone with a better eye for graphic design, because "your work" is not good enough. attackconquer and HoneyFrosted 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPACELAB9 Posted June 11, 2015 Author Share Posted June 11, 2015 This has nothing to do with "re-imagining iconography," the design looks terrible aesthetically and from a design perspective. I'm not saying this to be rude or combative, but you're working on a product that I care a lot about and it looks like a cheap Korean bookbag. You can do a lot of cool things with pixel-art, but taking something made with a few hundred pixels and blowing it up to take up 90% of the cover is an objectively horrible idea. If you honestly say you "stand by your work" then I would seriously consider hiring someone with a better eye for graphic design, because "your work" is not good enough. Good sir we will have to agree to disagree, simple as that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agua Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Megaman is one of my favorite video game franchises, and I would say this isn't a great cover.If the cover was literally every character sprite standing next to each other it would be better than this thesewoodenideas 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bladew1ll1s1sdead Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Y'all gotta chill on Spacelab. They're doing what they can, man. I even went off in another thread (about picture discs, fuck those) but the nitpicking on little shit needs to quit. They didn't get the license to do the cover you wanted, simple. Sorry, no amount of bitching will change this. It is what it is, dudes and lady dudes. stl_ben 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
batman Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 yeah overly rude comment was unnecessary. as a business, SL is going to stand by their product here until the bitter end (which they should!!). at the same time, I believe it's our job as a community to provide constructive (albeit subjective) criticism for ways in which they could improve going forward. the fact that they're addressing the webstore issues is already a good sign. however, SL immediately went on the defensive about being perceived as a new-jack, cash-grab business and in the end they shouldn't have that chip on their shoulder. I know that I want to see them succeed because they're getting a lot of licenses for things that i'm passionate about. they don't want custom or original artwork that reimagines the associated properties, but I think the request for more creativity is grounded, and something that they should seriously consider instead of a blanket "to each their own" or "agree to disagree". a fair compromise would be to request more creativity with a property's iconography. I get that they're defending their product here, and I don't think we'll see anything like this again. sidebar: I actually don't think that the mega man art would look too bad on a CD or smaller format. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPACELAB9 Posted June 11, 2015 Author Share Posted June 11, 2015 yeah overly rude comment was unnecessary. as a business, SL is going to stand by their product here until the bitter end (which they should!!). at the same time, I believe it's our job as a community to provide constructive (albeit subjective) criticism for ways in which they could improve going forward. the fact that they're addressing the webstore issues is already a good sign. however, SL immediately went on the defensive about being perceived as a new-jack, cash-grab business and in the end they shouldn't have that chip on their shoulder. I know that I want to see them succeed because they're getting a lot of licenses for things that i'm passionate about. they don't want custom or original artwork that reimagines the associated properties, but I think the request for more creativity is grounded, and something that they should seriously consider instead of a blanket "to each their own" or "agree to disagree". a fair compromise would be to request more creativity with a property's iconography. I get that they're defending their product here, and I don't think we'll see anything like this again. sidebar: I actually don't think that the mega man art would look too bad on a CD or smaller format. Batman, we sincerely appreciate your candor. And certainly, like I said before we do take into consideration what folks like yourself and people in this forum offer in regards to suggestions. To reiterate lots of past suggestions have been implemented (and some willl be implemented i.e. the website), however, there are some things that we will stand our ground frimly. As far as addressing the "new jack perception" while not said in this thread it has indeed been a phrase that has been tossed around rather unjustly on these very forums. Collectively we have all worked in the music industry in a variety of facets not to mention two previous labels that spanned over two decades so I felt the need to squash notions that try to paint us otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
attackconquer Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 This has nothing to do with "re-imagining iconography," the design looks terrible aesthetically and from a design perspective. I'm not saying this to be rude or combative, but you're working on a product that I care a lot about and it looks like a cheap Korean bookbag. You can do a lot of cool things with pixel-art, but taking something made with a few hundred pixels and blowing it up to take up 90% of the cover is an objectively horrible idea. If you honestly say you "stand by your work" then I would seriously consider hiring someone with a better eye for graphic design, because "your work" is not good enough. say what you will about this guy's choice of words, he is saying what we are ALL thinking. the cover lacks imagination and looks like something you would find in a 99 cent Japanese store on clearance. #justbeinghonest danoise 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuzzersonKillwell Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 One of the challenges of design criticism is that it takes some background in the discipline to articulate the negatives. Someone may not be able to cite design principles to explain why a piece feels off, but they can still feel it. The same is true of great work. It's why art appeals to an audience broader then the artists. I think it is commendable to stand by your designer, especially if you're happy with the work. Or if you just enjoy the collaboration. You seem to have no problem selling product so the strength of design is sort of moot at this point, but I think the criticism is fair, even if it hasn't been particularly constructive. My two cents. I don't really think anyone would have a probably with large sprite artwork, but, to my eye, the proportion is off here. The size of the sprite within the borders is too large, which creates an uncomfortable tension with the "subject" and the other elements. Also, The red swash at the top, behind the letters, has a strong downward movement. The sprite itself has a strong rightward movement. My eye doesn't really know where to settle. Speaking of the red, that is the only use of it, which is a little weird given the attempt at top-bottom symmetry with your background elements. These are some of the reasons, off the top of my head, that the composition just doesn't feel quite right to me. Most of the elements seem to be competing in some way, not in harmony. I think it is a perfectly fine choice to want to utilize or incorporate original asserts or artwork. It can be a challenge to work around when they aren't strong, like the Megaman logo here, but I think it can be done effectively. It's a brand choice and it is yours to make. Again, since you're selling through you could make an argument that none of this matters. At least not short-term. Anyway, I guess what I am saying is you can add me to the list of people pushing for stronger design. batman and Blumplum 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
batman Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 ^110% on point buzzkill. thanks for articulating that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoneyFrosted Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Y'all gotta chill on Spacelab. They're doing what they can, man. I even went off in another thread (about picture discs, fuck those) but the nitpicking on little shit needs to quit. They didn't get the license to do the cover you wanted, simple. Sorry, no amount of bitching will change this. It is what it is, dudes and lady dudes. You're going to think this is really nitpicky, but Spacelab hasn't said a word about licensing or Capcom or any of that. That was an educated guess by another member. The official reason for the cover is that they aren't into "re-imagining popular iconography." When pressed further, like Batman said, Spacelab dismisses all criticism with those blanket statements like 'agree to disagree.' They doesn't sound like they're doing what they can, man. Sorry to fan the flames, maybe they can't say much about the decision because of legal contracts, maybe they're just ultra defensive, maybe they ran out of time. Nobody knows because they haven't given any reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kermit Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 I respect Spacelab's decision, don't see why so many members are out to complain about the design choice, they'll most likely be rushing out to buy it anyway. Spacelab is being as respectful to the franchise and fans as they can, by re-imagining the cover there's an even bigger risk of upsetting fans for altering the image. No matter what they decide someone on this forum will find something to moan about, people trying to do nice things, loving fans, lol. SPACELAB9 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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