itsgoodtobefree Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 This seems like the best budget record cleaning machine. I have one on the way. There's a thread on it in the audio equipment forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsonja Posted September 21, 2015 Author Share Posted September 21, 2015 Wow, thanks for all the info, especially allenh for the encyclopedic post! There's lots to think about I guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allenh Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Wow, thanks for all the info, especially allenh for the encyclopedic post! There's lots to think about I guess Welcome to the frustrating world of vinyl. It can be bewildering, that and the fact that way too many people are either ignorant "it's me Mums Beatles record so it's gotta be worth money int it?" "No mate it looks like your Mum used it to clean the floor with and they pressed several million of this particular re press so no it's not" or worse still those just cynically milking a cash cow it's definitely a case of buyer beware. Then throw in the fact that a lot of this stuff is very subjective it's very easy to get caught out even when you've been buying them for way too many years. Keep in mind they are perishable and learn to look after your records and equipment properly and it will make it easier to spot when you've bought a pup or just a record that needs a good clean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsonja Posted September 21, 2015 Author Share Posted September 21, 2015 Keep in mind they are perishable and learn to look after your records and equipment properly and it will make it easier to spot when you've bought a pup or just a record that needs a good clean. Yeah I think that's my problem at the moment - trying to tell the difference between a record that's been kept badly and one that just needs a clean. I've actually somehow managed to collect a good hundred + records since I started buying June 2014, and it's gotta be something like 95% of them are snap, crackle, and pop free! So this recent fling with eBay has annoyed me a bit I guess. What's even worse is that I Googled it and came across dozens of posts on forums of people saying the surface crackle is inevitable even on new records, which is weird, because I honestly don't get any except if there's a small static build up, and then I just use my carbon brush and that usually takes care of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plarocks Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Hey RedSonja, Get the VPI unit. When I first got into this vinyl collecting thing wayyyyy back in the 90s, I once read an article that said, a "vaccum cleaning machine" is the only thing that is going to preserve your collection, and make them sound correct. They compared it to wearing glasses, but never cleaning them. The article advised readers to sell off a portion of your collection so you can buy one of these VPI/Nitty Gritties, in order to preserve the vinyl you have left. Playing used vinyl without a good vaccum clean is like playing your record with sandpaper. You wear out both the stylus and the record prematurely. I am using the same Grado Signature stylus that I bought in the 90s. I want to upgrade to another cartridge just because I heard what a "magnetic coil" cartridge sounds like, not because my needle is worn out. And don't sell your records at record shops. They are there to make money off of you. For example "Bat Out of Hell TWO" is a RARE record. One pressing in the 90s, but a shoddy one as they squeezed 70+ minutes on one LP, but it is so far the only legit version out there, and it was pressed in limited quantities. Collectors will pay a premium for it as a "place holder." It should have always been a 2LP. "Bat out of Hell Three" is rare too, but number one is a dollar record. Keep your records clean, keep your stylus clean. Good luck and happy listening to "real sound." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsonja Posted September 21, 2015 Author Share Posted September 21, 2015 Thank you Plarocks! I'll look into it! And yep, wish there was a 2LP version of Bat Out of Hell 2! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allenh Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 What's even worse is that I Googled it and came across dozens of posts on forums of people saying the surface crackle is inevitable even on new records, which is weird, because I honestly don't get any except if there's a small static build up, and then I just use my carbon brush and that usually takes care of it. Possible I'm afraid but not so much nowadays as records are all made from virgin new vinyl, toward the end of vinyl's time at the top and also during periods of oil shortage some records were made from old melted down records and it shows, also if all the steps in the mastering and cutting process aren't of a high standard then surface noise can and does creep in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGhostOfRandySavage Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Possible I'm afraid but not so much nowadays as records are all made from virgin new vinyl, toward the end of vinyl's time at the top and also during periods of oil shortage some records were made from old melted down records and it shows, also if all the steps in the mastering and cutting process aren't of a high standard then surface noise can and does creep in.Not all new records are made from virgin vinyl... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allenh Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Not all new records are made from virgin vinyl... True enough but you stand a much better chance of getting one made from new vinyl now, back in the late 80's and early 90's the chances of getting a record made from melted down Max Bygraves and Val Doonican records was pretty high Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGhostOfRandySavage Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 True enough but you stand a much better chance of getting one made from new vinyl now, back in the late 80's and early 90's the chances of getting a record made from melted down Max Bygraves and Val Doonican records was pretty highFair enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdz68 Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 And also to chime in most records I buy new have all kinds of dust and crap from the paper sleeves on them...which in turn will damage a needle over time. I never play anything before cleaning it now. If you search for LP view under a microscope on YouTube you can see videos of a stylus in the grooves and anything in the way will decrease the info the needle picks up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsonja Posted September 22, 2015 Author Share Posted September 22, 2015 Thanks - never even considered that! I'm going to have to get a record cleaner ... after I've read through this entire thread again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just a normal guy kevin Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Go to the Turntable and Equipment forum and read the $100 Record Cleaner thread. A little more expensive than a Spin Clean but not by much and it works a lot better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsonja Posted September 23, 2015 Author Share Posted September 23, 2015 Update. I took everyone's advice and went through eBay first and raised a case since the seller wouldn't respond to my messages, and this morning I got a really odd reply back from him (now calling himself 'we', since he knows that eBay are watching), basically saying that I threatened him, insulted him, and attempted to blackmail him, and that I'm well known for trying to scam sellers for partial refunds and that he's reporting me to eBay in order to help other sellers 'be protected'. And all I could think was wow, what a pile of shit. He literally used 'we' and 'our company' throughout the mail until he got to the end and reverted back to 'I'. He's now asking that I return the records because he 'needs them asap', and he said that he would discount them if received back in the same condition as they were sent - which I pointed out that they are not, because they're now clean. I don't think this guy has any intention of refunding my money, and as soon as I send them I've got a feeling that he's going to say that they're not in the same condition and claim that I've damaged them or something, so I think my only choice is to try and get hold of a camera with a good macro and try and capture the scratches and scuffs and send them to eBay. What do you guys think? I might seem calm, but it really fucks me off that people actually act like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just a normal guy kevin Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Ignore everything he said. Get on the phone with eBay and ask them to read his message and then give you advice on what you can do next to proceed in the best, safest manner. If the return is managed through eBay or PayPal, he has to follow their steps and can't make up his own random refund policy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExtraFox Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Take pictures - lots of them. Assuming you do end up sending them back, you don't want any regrets that you didn't fully document what you received. Ebay have a money back guarantee policy: http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/money-back-guarantee.html Pictures will help you prove they are not as described. The only other issue is postage for returning them. Do not settle for anything other than a full refund on this and make that very clear to Ebay when you do what Bake said above. Ebay and Paypal have a reputation for siding with the buyer even when it's an obvious scam by said buyer (which this is obviously not), so I'd be confident in them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allenh Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 ebay have access to all the messages both yours and his so following the trail of messages it won't be difficult to work out who, where and what etc. I would get a copy of the Record Collector grading or the Goldmine/Discogs one and quote it against the faults of each record and the grading given in your reply, but above all don't rise to the comments in his email and follow the good advice from bake and ExtraFox above Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsonja Posted September 23, 2015 Author Share Posted September 23, 2015 Thanks everyone, that's really helped. I replied to the message before I read your comments, but if I don't hear anything or I get another idiotic response from him I'll phone eBay direct and go from there. I'm going to try and borrow a good camera later today and take some pictures. If I post them up here with his gradings and mine would you take a quick look and let me know what you think? I'm pretty new to records and gradings but even I can see that he's totally overgraded them. I actually thought I was being really fair in my re-grading too, but I guess he didn't see it that way... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hori Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 From my experience with Ebay you probably won't win the case disputing the condition unless the records thenselves were damaged and not playable. Maybe they have changed more recently but whatever you do don't return the records until you receive a full refund first. If ebay does not rule in your favour then best to chalk this up as experience when buying in the future and ask for more details or pictures, any decent seller will provide more details when asked. Good luck either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allenh Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 From my experience with Ebay you probably won't win the case disputing the condition unless the records thenselves were damaged and not playable. Maybe they have changed more recently but whatever you do don't return the records until you receive a full refund first. If ebay does not rule in your favour then best to chalk this up as experience when buying in the future and ask for more details or pictures, any decent seller will provide more details when asked. Good luck either way. Ebays rules don't usually allow for a full refund until the goods have been returned to the seller but as ExtraFox says they tend to side with the buyer in these matters, and if you paid via paypal they will hold the money in the sellers account even if it takes it into a negative balance until the dispute is resolved. A partial refund might be a more palatable solution but as he has accused you of all sorts I would take one if offered and reasonable but not seek one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsonja Posted September 24, 2015 Author Share Posted September 24, 2015 Okay, so I've taken some photos - can anyone tell me how I'd upload them here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just a normal guy kevin Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Imgur.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allenh Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 photobucket.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsonja Posted September 24, 2015 Author Share Posted September 24, 2015 Ah, I see, I thought I could use the 'my media' button and upload directly here, but no worries, I'll make an account on one of the hosting sites and post back shortly, thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsonja Posted September 24, 2015 Author Share Posted September 24, 2015 Okay, here's the worst of the bunch. Powerslave, Piece of Mind, and No Prayer for the Dying. Seventh Son was also scratched and scuffed and covered in dust, but I haven't taken any photos of that one yet. These were all described and listed as EX/NM, verified by the seller when I asked him prior to sending out, and he also said 'they're meticulously looked after', 'they really are in amazing condition from a private collection', and 'they don't even need cleaning'. Seriously, I must've sent this guy at least four messages checking the condition and asking for him to listen to them, which he said he had, but only some, and that I shouldn't worry because they're in 'top' condition. I graded them like this: Piece of Mind - VG + - Thick dust, deep scratches mostly on side two (first track has a giant scratch running straight through it), with clicks and pops in quiet sections. Fortunately very little crackle, hence the 'plus' grading.Powerslave - G-/F+ - this one was covered in hairline scratches, moderate scratches, dirty patches that require a pro cleaning to remove, thick surface dust and debris ... Needless to say, clicks and pops and high crackle throughout. No Prayer for the Dying - VG - would have loved to have given this one a higher grading, as side one plays without much surface noise at all, but side two has scuffs and scratches which cause clicks and pops and, honestly, I wasn't sure if my stylus was going to track this at all or fly halfway across the room. Lots of dust and hair on this one. Needs a pro clean. Please take a look at the photos if you can, and I'd love to hear what you guys think and if I got my grading right? This is after three surface cleanings with an anti-stat brush, too! Some of that stuff just won't come off without taking a lot more time I guess (and why should I clean someone else's records ...). I've just sent these photos to eBay, and asked the seller to take a real good look and tell me if he still 'sticks by his NM grading' now ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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