ExtraFox Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 How does No Prayer For The Dying sound? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsonja Posted September 24, 2015 Author Share Posted September 24, 2015 Well, since I cleaned it up it's oddly good, even with that huge scratch it doesn't skip at all. Seriously though, I had to go to my neighbour and ask if could try them on her system, as she has a cheap TT she uses for the stuff she gets scouring flea markets and boot sales. I daren't play them on my system ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allenh Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 I can only see one photo and don't know which one it is but that one could never be NM because of the scratches even if it was clean Those aren't all hairlines some are stylus marks, hairlines are generally caused by people not knowing how to put a record back into an inner sleeve and the friction between the record and the sleeve edge as it goes back in and don't tend to turn back on themselves like a needle mark does when someone pulls at the arm to take it off the record. A good vacuum clean would make it's true condition a bit more obvious but if the scratches can't be heard/don't affect play much, it was cleaned and it sounded ok then it could possibly be classed as VG+ if you were being generous but looking at the amount of dirt and the type of scratches I very much doubt that so more likely VG and if you can properly hear the scratches but it doesn't skip or stick then a G+. Of course if it was properly cleaned and there was minimal snap crackle and pop it might be a VG+ so how does it sound? And most of the dust and stuff will be there because of static so a quick zap with a zerostat would help to get rid of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsonja Posted September 24, 2015 Author Share Posted September 24, 2015 Thanks!! That's odd that you can't see the photos ... they're all there on my screen and there are seven of them? By the way - they're not my hairy hands, I'm the one holding the camera Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allenh Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 I can see them all now, I could only see the last one before, don't know why. A lot of people never list records for sale as mint even if they are sealed as new because most records have some sort of flaw from new so 2nd hand you are looking at N/M being the top grade and working down from there, so to receive records that have dirt, marks and scratches on after them being classed as N/M I wouldn't be happy EX is a grade that some use in between N/M and VG+ but even EX should be pretty much N/M So visually none could ever be classed as N/M or even EX and depending on how they sound it would make a difference but visually VG for the best being generous down to G+ for the worst provided there are no skips or jumps. The strange thing is I've had records that look like that and play almost N/M and others that look N/M and play G+ at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeKaye Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 I think you will be fine. ebay are famous for siding with the buyer, even in cases when dodgy buyers scam good sellers, so in this case where you really do have a strong case and you are 100% in the right, there shouldn't be any argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsonja Posted September 24, 2015 Author Share Posted September 24, 2015 Thanks LeeKaye, and thanks allenh, appreciate you looking at them and agree with everything you said. I didn't realise that hairlines are technically just from sleeve wear, so that's something I picked up. Hopefully I'll be able to get this refunded through ebay. It's a shame, as out of the 12 records, four of them actually are in EX condition more or less, and although No Prayer for the Dying looks pretty bad, it actually plays without a fault (unlike Seventh Son and Powerslave which have so much audible distortion it's unreal). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsonja Posted September 25, 2015 Author Share Posted September 25, 2015 Update. After sending the photos and not hearing anything for over twenty four hours, the seller has sent a brief two line message back telling me that I have damaged the records and 'altered the condition' by 'washing' them!?! Which I obviously didn't do, as they're still caked in dust. So I guess I'm gonna have to leave this to eBay and wait until the end of the week when I can forward it to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just a normal guy kevin Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Can you PM me the username of the seller? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsgoodtobefree Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 God seeing those pictures pisses me off. Hope you end up getting this sorted out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allenh Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Can you PM me the username of the seller? Same here I wouldn't mind avoiding them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsonja Posted September 25, 2015 Author Share Posted September 25, 2015 Thanks - and sure, I'll PM it over now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just a normal guy kevin Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Thanks for sending their username. I think eBay removes negatives after a year, so he/she could have had some issues in the past that are no longer reflected in their feedback. My best guess is they didn't inspect the records too closely or figured the price was so low that no one would really complain if the records were VG rather than NM/EX. Unless your initial message to them was intense enough to get them unusually riled up, their paranoia seems really high for someone who has had that many transactions with all positive feedback in the last 12 months. Very odd situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsonja Posted September 25, 2015 Author Share Posted September 25, 2015 That's exactly what I thought! We'd talked about the condition and exchanged a good five messages and all seemed to be good, then they arrived in that awful condition so I messaged him, thanked him for the few records that actually were in good condition, and then said that sadly the others weren't as described and asked if he could contact me to resolve. I even went ahead and re-graded them and sent the list, just so he could see how widely he'd missed the mark. The only thing I got back from him was a message saying that no one has ever not agreed with his gradings before, and that I should send them back and he'd consider a refund if they were in the same condition he sent them in, according to his own gradings which he 'stands by'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsonja Posted September 27, 2015 Author Share Posted September 27, 2015 Update. After posting the photos on my eBay case I heard nothing back from the seller for over three days, but this morning I just got this message: "As previously stated on numerous occaissions, please return items. We will not be held to ransom or blackmailed in respect of negotiating a discount on items that we know are accurately described in the original listing. We will review the returned items prior to refund as it has become apparent that you may have altered the condition. Ebay are due to make a final decision on this soon, so please sit tight until then francesca" The most confusing part of this except for the bit where the seller accuses me of holding him to ransom and blackmailing him (I mean, seriously, WTF?! I just want to return the seven records which are in shitty condition), is that the seller has after almost twenty messages suddenly changed gender and started to refer to himself as 'we'! Thankfully tomorrow is the date where I can finally ask eBay to look at this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markok Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Im a seller on ebay and a collector and I do play my records, a lot, I have an Okki Nokki record cleaner. To the original poster: - dont be a dick and return the records for a refund. You probably have done enough of damage to the seller with your "cleaning" and god knows what stylus. - judging by the length of your post, you have an OCD (as do I), maybe switch to digital for some of the music (like I have), its impossible to find everything that sounds and looks mint. - get a proper cleaning system and stop buying used records, eventually everything gets reissued with a better mastering and artwork anyway kjkenney 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsonja Posted September 27, 2015 Author Share Posted September 27, 2015 I'm not even going to post a proper response to that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just a normal guy kevin Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Yeah. That's super crazy and out of left field that the OP expected EX/NM records. I wonder what in the world could have given her that idea? Sadly, we will never know. I agree that she needs to buy a $450 record cleaner, subscribe to Spotify, and then only buy new records with better artwork. All these are connected, easy-to-follow thoughts with a clear through line. I like turtles. redsonja 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsonja Posted September 27, 2015 Author Share Posted September 27, 2015 best thing I've read all day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slinch Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 From the messages you posted it seems the seller is doing everything they can to ensure they'll win the case against you. I'd be very cautious if I were you and be sure to confirm it with an ebay rep that you will get a refund. Because here's the thing, I don't have experience with an ebay case like this, but I do have experience with a paypal case for an ebay sale very similar to this. Per the paypal guidelines you can only receive the refund if you send the items back to them and: 1. have a tracking number that confirms the seller received their items back 2. the items returned are in exactly the same condition as they were sent in If either of those don't hold up, you will not receive the refund. From the conversations you posted it looks like in the messages you clearly state that you have washed the records, and now the seller claims that this has altered the condition of them. Technically there is a very high chance that paypal will rule against you because of this. Again, I'm not sure if ebay's rules are identical, but I strongly advise you try to get a direct answer from them regarding this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsonja Posted September 27, 2015 Author Share Posted September 27, 2015 Hey again Slinch, thanks, I'll definitely bare that in mind! but I never once said that I'd washed the records, in fact I asked here about washing records as I have no idea how to do that. The only thing I did was use a carbon fiber brush to remove some of the surface dust so that I could check the sound quality on several of the records. That's it. And the photos I posted both here and to ebay clearly show that. It's kind of a catch 22 for me, because if I don't send the records back I don't get my money back but get to keep a batch of mostly shitty records, and if I do send the records back I lose the few records I can actually use and, most probably, all of my money too. The bottom line is this guy sold me a bunch of badly scratched records while insisting like he still does that they're in NM condition. About his claims that I've somehow 'altered the condition' from NM to Fair - is just crazy because anyone looking at those photos can see that the dust and scratches come from years of misuse. I guess fortunately for me the last twelve purchases I made from ebay comes to just under £500 (and doesn't include this guy's records), and I haven't had one single problem with any of them and I don't have any negative feedback, so that's got to count for something I guess? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slinch Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Oh, my bad, I thought that you told him that you washed them since he wrote that washing them has "altered the condition". If he just made it up, he's really reaching. Still, try to contact someone from ebay to make sure before you send them back. It doesn't matter if you have perfect feedback score and zero disputes/cases filed either by you or against you. If the seller finds a way to back up their claim, you're still at risk of losing your money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsonja Posted September 27, 2015 Author Share Posted September 27, 2015 Yep he just made it up, and the pictures I posted are of the records before cleaning (obviously, as there's still so much dust and crap attached to them). What he is claiming is that he sent the records out in NM condition, and that since then I've somehow altered them to include them looking like they've been badly worn, stored, and played for the last twenty years. Again, I actually want to keep the three/four relatively decent records and I just want to return the eight or so that are badly damaged. He's trying every trick in the book I think to try and make it look like I've damaged the records but every time I've responded I've done it making sure that I correct those things he's said and I've asked for examples of when I said I'd washed the records or attempted to blackmail him, etc. but he never responds to those things. He never even responded to the photos I sent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markok Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Jesus, I cant even choose which post makes me cringe the most. If the record is dirty, never use carbon fiber brush, it will NOT help, if anything, it will increase the surface noise because you are forcing the dirt into the grooves even more. Should have returned the records on the first day if the seller didnt grade them right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
souljacker8888 Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 No. A fiber carbon brush will not force any dust into the grooves. It may not be great at removing large amounts of dust, but it is not going to fuck up a record if you go with the grooves. looking at this guys earlier posts... and his reading comprehension! hahahah! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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