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There Will Be Hell Toupée! (The Donald Trump Thread)

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War crimes are dope tho

 

 

I'm from Upstate NY and I worked in an organic grocery store for a couple years. I've known a lot of people like Jill Stein and they're the worst. She has some good ideas and positions, but her anti-GMO and other pseudo science bullshit beliefs are bad and harmful.

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13 hours ago, The Ghost of Randy Savage said:

I'm not saying what he did was ok, (it's not cool to carelessly talk about sexual assault) or that he's a strong supporter of women's rights. I'm just saying that Hillary is equally as bad for the things she has done and put up with from her husband.

You do know that Ivana Trump (wife #1) accused Donald of raping her, right?  And that many other women have accused him of assaulting them, right?  Then there's also his admission to going into the Miss Universe dressing room to "inspect" while the women were getting dressed, but I think you get my point.

Anyhoo, I'm not saying Hillary is an angel or that she has never said/done anything bad to the women Bill has been accused of doing things with, but to equate what Hillary has done regarding "women's rights" to Trump's history of (accusations of) rape/assault and admissions of generally creepy/sleazy behavior seems like a bit of a stretch.

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39 minutes ago, harryq said:

You do know that Ivana Trump (wife #1) accused Donald of raping her, right?  And that many other women have accused him of assaulting them, right?  Then there's also his admission to going into the Miss Universe dressing room to "inspect" while the women were getting dressed, but I think you get my point.

Anyhoo, I'm not saying Hillary is an angel or that she has never said/done anything bad to the women Bill has been accused of doing things with, but to equate what Hillary has done regarding "women's rights" to Trump's history of (accusations of) rape/assault and admissions of generally creepy/sleazy behavior seems like a bit of a stretch.

So enabling and covering up sexual assault as well as taking funds from hyper misogynistic foreign leaders is significantly less horrific then committing it yourself? Gotcha.

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14 hours ago, The Ghost of Randy Savage said:

As I've made clear numerous times in here, I'm not a Trump supporter...I just think a lot of people are voting for Hillary because she's the liberal candidate without thinking about her record. As for me, I won't be voting for either. While some of you think that I'll just be throwing my vote away, I see it as my small step toward getting us away from this horrible two party system we're stuck in.

Honest, non-confrontational, not intentionally judgmental question: Let's say the two potential (non-Trump) outcomes are:

  • Hillary wins with 45% of the vote; Trump gets 40% and other people get the remaining 15%.
  • Hillary wins with 60% of the vote; Trump gets 40% and no one else gets ~any of the vote.

Which of these outcomes do you think is more likely to lead to a viable third party?  My belief is that if Hillary absolutely crushes Trump, it would be so embarrassing that the RNC could split between the crazy people (e.g., the people who continue to oppose LGBT-rights) and the sane people (e.g., fiscal conservatives with social beliefs from the 21st century), and then you'd have your viable third party.

I would also argue that if you want a legit 3+ party system (or at least a better system), the better strategy would be to start at the local level rather than at the Presidential level.  For instance, I'd rather protest-vote and let someone like Trump become a state/US Senator or Representative than protest-vote and have Trump be President.

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14 minutes ago, Shitty Rambo said:

So enabling and covering up sexual assault as well as taking funds from hyper misogynistic foreign leaders is significantly less horrific then committing it yourself? Gotcha.

I feel like "Hillary is worse than rape" is a much catchier t-shirt.

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1 hour ago, harryq said:

You do know that Ivana Trump (wife #1) accused Donald of raping her, right?  And that many other women have accused him of assaulting them, right?  Then there's also his admission to going into the Miss Universe dressing room to "inspect" while the women were getting dressed, but I think you get my point.

Anyhoo, I'm not saying Hillary is an angel or that she has never said/done anything bad to the women Bill has been accused of doing things with, but to equate what Hillary has done regarding "women's rights" to Trump's history of (accusations of) rape/assault and admissions of generally creepy/sleazy behavior seems like a bit of a stretch.

Your original post said Ivanka (daughter) not Ivana (wife), so you can understand the confusion here.

16 minutes ago, harryq said:

Honest, non-confrontational, not intentionally judgmental question: Let's say the two potential (non-Trump) outcomes are:

  • Hillary wins with 45% of the vote; Trump gets 40% and other people get the remaining 15%.
  • Hillary wins with 60% of the vote; Trump gets 40% and no one else gets ~any of the vote.

Which of these outcomes do you think is more likely to lead to a viable third party?  My belief is that if Hillary absolutely crushes Trump, it would be so embarrassing that the RNC could split between the crazy people (e.g., the people who continue to oppose LGBT-rights) and the sane people (e.g., fiscal conservatives with social beliefs from the 21st century), and then you'd have your viable third party.

I would also argue that if you want a legit 3+ party system (or at least a better system), the better strategy would be to start at the local level rather than at the Presidential level.  For instance, I'd rather protest-vote and let someone like Trump become a state/US Senator or Representative than protest-vote and have Trump be President.

Who says I don't vote third party in local elections as well? (I also don't consider Senator/Reps to be local elections since they serve us at the federal level, but that's a different argument).

As far as a split in the Republican Party leading to a three party system...why would I care for two slightly different republican candidates and a democrat candidate as far as the 3 parties I can choose from? I don't vote along party lines, but by what the person stands for...but I can't see this being any better than the current two party system. I'd imagine independent candidates would have an equally hard time getting to the debates.

Re: LGBTQ stuff...you do know that for a long time both Kaine and Clinton opposed same sex marriage equality and only recently changed their tune, right? That said, obviously Pence is a garbage person, especially on that front, but I still think Trump is much more liberal than he lets on right now. 

 

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12 minutes ago, Shitty Rambo said:

So enabling and covering up sexual assault as well as taking funds from hyper misogynistic foreign leaders is significantly less horrific then committing it yourself? Gotcha.

Is enabling and covering up sexual assault less horrific than committing rape and sexual assault?  Yes.  Was that a serious question?

 

As for taking funds:

  • What are Hillary and the Clinton Foundation doing with said money?
  • Who has Trump accepted money from over the course of his business career, and what has he done with that money?  Does Trump outsource the production of Trump ties, etc. to countries with great human rights records?  Does the Trump Foundation have a good reputation?  How about Trump University?

I don't see this argument working in your favor...

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4 minutes ago, harryq said:

Is enabling and covering up sexual assault less horrific than committing rape and sexual assault?  Yes.  Was that a serious question?

 

As for taking funds:

  • What are Hillary and the Clinton Foundation doing with said money?
  • Who has Trump accepted money from over the course of his business career, and what has he done with that money?  Does Trump outsource the production of Trump ties, etc. to countries with great human rights records?  Does the Trump Foundation have a good reputation?  How about Trump University?

I don't see this argument working in your favor...

I think the fact that Hilary has accepted money from any foreign leaders at all while working in he state department is a big deal...

Until now, Trump receiving money mattered less because he had no influence on our foreign policy.

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1 minute ago, The Ghost of Randy Savage said:

Your original post said Ivanka (daughter) not Ivana (wife), so you can understand the confusion here.

I was making two different points.

  • Ivanka (the daughter) is supporting her father, someone who has been accused of rape and sexual assault -- including the rape/assault of her own mother.  Hillary supported her husband, who was accused of rape/assault.  Outside of that, Hillary has a record of supporting women's rights politically, and I'm not sure what Ivanka thinks.  That's where I'm comfortable saying "Hillary is better than Ivanka on women's issues, both of which are light years ahead of Donald," without the need to equate Hillary's trangressions to how Ivanka has supported her father.  You could replace any Trump child in place of Ivanka here, but Ivanka seemed like the obvious choice.
  • Ivana (the wife) accused Donald of raping her.  Hillary hasn't been accused of raping anyone.  Thus, I don't see how you can equate Hillary's ~transgressions to Donald's.

Is that more clear?

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2 minutes ago, harryq said:

I was making two different points.

  • Ivanka (the daughter) is supporting her father, someone who has been accused of rape and sexual assault -- including the rape/assault of her own mother.  Hillary supported her husband, who was accused of rape/assault.  Outside of that, Hillary has a record of supporting women's rights politically, and I'm not sure what Ivanka thinks.  That's where I'm comfortable saying "Hillary is better than Ivanka on women's issues, both of which are light years ahead of Donald," without the need to equate Hillary's trangressions to how Ivanka has supported her father.  You could replace any Trump child in place of Ivanka here, but Ivanka seemed like the obvious choice.
  • Ivana (the wife) accused Donald of raping her.  Hillary hasn't been accused of raping anyone.  Thus, I don't see how you can equate Hillary's ~transgressions to Donald's.

Is that more clear?

Yes.

I'm not trying to say that the things they've done are 100% equal, but that judging by both of their actions, they are both complicit in harming women sexually (Hillary after the fact, Trump by things he's said and allegedly done), and likely to pass legislation that harms women.

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10 minutes ago, The Ghost of Randy Savage said:

Re: LGBTQ stuff...you do know that for a long time both Kaine and Clinton opposed same sex marriage equality and only recently changed their tune, right? That said, obviously Pence is a garbage person, especially on that front, but I still think Trump is much more liberal than he lets on right now. 

I know lots of people have changed their beliefs over time.  What's unclear is if:

  • They legitimately changed their beliefs as they matured (better late than never...?)
  • They've always been anti-LGBT rights and are only publicly supporting LGBT rights now to be politically expedient
  • They've always been pro-LGBT rights and used to publicly oppose LGBT rights to be politically expedient

I like to be optimistic.  But yeah, I wish Clinton, Kaine, and Obama were more outspoken in support of LGBT rights earlier in their careers.  In the meantime, I'll settle for what we have.

 

And I agree with you regarding Trump.  I think he's a con man who will say whatever he needs to say to get people's support.  I'm legitimately impressed by the way he's been able to convince ~40% of the population otherwise.

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30 minutes ago, harryq said:

Is enabling and covering up sexual assault less horrific than committing rape and sexual assault?  Yes.  Was that a serious question?

 

As for taking funds:

  • What are Hillary and the Clinton Foundation doing with said money?
  • Who has Trump accepted money from over the course of his business career, and what has he done with that money?  Does Trump outsource the production of Trump ties, etc. to countries with great human rights records?  Does the Trump Foundation have a good reputation?  How about Trump University?

I don't see this argument working in your favor...

Of course you don't. You're going to skew it to fit your opinion regardless.

 

Whatever works for you dude. Without a horse in this race I don't have the burden of justifying my stance like you.

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16 minutes ago, The Ghost of Randy Savage said:

I think the fact that Hilary has accepted money from any foreign leaders at all while working in he state department is a big deal...

Until now, Trump receiving money mattered less because he had no influence on our foreign policy.

If we're arguing about ~transparency and things like that, I will agree that the Clinton Foundation accepting foreign donations is questionable.  There should at least be a process where foreign donations to foundations associated with federal officials need to be approved (e.g., questions like "How does this donation impact your official duties as ____?").  I'm biased, but I'd like to think that the vast majority of donations the Foundation received would have been approved with bipartisan support.  I suppose I'd also want Trump (or any Presidential candidate for that matter) to disclose all of his foreign dealings so they can undergo a similar approval process.

 

If we're comparing their women's rights and human rights records, I think Trump's international dealings are equally relevant.  It might make business-sense to use child labor in China, but is it morally responsible?  Nope.  And that's ignoring his whole "We should make [insert company here] make their products in America"-argument.

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Love the threat of jailing your political opponent that literally followed that nice giant quote posted.  For as much as everyone bitches about the government wasting money, there sure seems to be a lot of circlejerking around the idea of wasting even more.  how much money was spent on the Benghazi witchhunt?  how much money was spent on the email witchhunt?  Where is the OUTCRY to the 22 MILLION emails GWBush LOST??  I mean, its unreal.  

Also, the term Locker Talk is so fucking ridiculous and dismissive of the dangerous language he used.  Saying that was just Lockerroom talk does NOT justify admitting to sexually assaulting women just because you are rich.

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