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All-encompassing NINE INCH NAILS Thread: Reissues, New Stuff, Soundtracks, Kitchen Sink


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30 minutes ago, Derek™ said:

Out of curiosity, how much of your dad's collection did he obtain through mail-orders over the years?

Like multiple people have said, it is an unfortunate part of the hobby™.  How long have you been acquiring records, out of curiosity?  I'd probably be miffed if I only owned 50-ish records, or had been buying them for less than a year, and received some bent corners or seam splits along the way.  But, I mean... pick your battles.  Like vinyl addict just said above, that tiny bent corner doesn't impact playback or sound fidelity.  So how does it effect you, intrinsically?  Are you concerned that it'll shave off from the lofty $300 value you think the album will be worth in 20 years?  Do you feel like an inferior NIN fan compared to someone who has a copy of Hesitation Marks with 4 crisp, pristine corners?  Are you concerned that you'll eventually have friends over who may spot the bent corner and just assume that you treat all of your personal belongings like shit?  Help me understand here.

 

How about the UK press of Amnesiac I ordered from Amazon UK about a month ago?

 

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That, to me, was worth squawking about because I couldn't even get the record out without some contorting of the jacket.

Holy crap... that's major damage right there.. :0 id be furious.. Yeah I guess just because I haven't been collecting that long so it bugs me out when I get dings or bends. I can't imagine receiving one that bad though. That is very big.

 

My dad did get most of his in person over the years. Online, I'd say a couple hundred. I know he has gotten some used and they had dings and bent edges. But I've seen alot of his prestine albums that he got online that don't have any dings. But yes most of his aren't from online. So I can see how the mail system can ruin them. I just wish they were padded better. Such fragile items.

 

I can't wait to get the other represses in the mail, it will be very exciting! Also can't wait to hear the rest of the new album in a week!

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The defiant ones is a phenomenal documentary without Trent.  But the short NIN piece explains the genius of Trent Reznor.  as a fan from the beginning, with broken being top on my list... newer stuff is getting harder to put it on repeat, but my office is still filled with framed nin concert posters.  I really liked HM ( but not NTAE) and the man is one of the best musicians of our time.  Always worth listening too.  

 

Im out. 

Edited by rm
Mistype
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4 minutes ago, thischarmingman said:

Let me know when you all order a brand new vehicle and it shows up with a bunch of dings, dents, and scratches and you're just like ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

My favorite part of this comparison is when the USPS handles the car haphazardly in the mail.  But I also like the part where we compare a $20 record to a $20,000 motor vehicle, too.

But seriously; if you're just going to compare apples and oranges, it's probably in your best interest to sit this one out.

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10 minutes ago, Derek™ said:

My favorite part of this comparison is when the USPS handles the car haphazardly in the mail.  But I also like the part where we compare a $20 record to a $20,000 motor vehicle, too.

But seriously; if you're just going to compare apples and oranges, it's probably in your best interest to sit this one out.

Cars get shipped on trucks. They get damaged. Hazard of shipping? If I buy a brand new record, it should show up in brand new condition. Don't care if it's $20 or $20,000.  Apple and oranges, blah blah blah. We purchased a new product. It should show up that way. If you buy a carton of milk for $3 and it's spoiled, you should get a replacement. End of story. If I sold a product and it showed up in different condition than when it left my factory, I'd make it right. Fine that you're willing to settle for less, but that's not the rule. 

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1 minute ago, thischarmingman said:

"Hey, I bought this record off Discogs and it says it was new and mint but it showed up with all these dings, seam splits, etc."

 

"Yo, that's how it showed up to me from the label and also UPS, amirite?!"

 

FOH. 

This is an entirely different argument; if it has corner dings you can't classify it as mint, but you also really shouldn't throw a tantrum about it. Sleeve damage is unappealing in a frame, sure, but lucky for us, the music is on the disc ;)

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2 minutes ago, thischarmingman said:

Cars get shipped on trucks. They get damaged. Hazard of shipping? If I buy a brand new record, it should show up in brand new condition. Don't care if it's $20 or $20,000.  Apple and oranges, blah blah blah. We purchased a new product. It should show up that way. If you buy a carton of milk for $3 and it's spoiled, you should get a replacement. End of story. If I sold a product and it showed up in different condition than when it left my factory, I'd make it right. Fine that you're willing to settle for less, but that's not the rule. 

Are you dense or just trolling?

Fresh carton of milk ≠ spoiled carton of milk ≠ carton of milk with crushed corner.

And there are various grades of things worth bitching about.  Would you return a candy bar that someone broke in half, unbeknownst to yourself at the checkout line?  Would you refuse to sign for a $20,000 car because it arrived with a small scuff on the left headlight, from a stray piece of gravel on the highway?  That's entirely different than buying fruit that's spoiled, or having your car arrive with a busted windshield and loose locks on the back door.

 

Seriously, stop and consider what you're writing.  Or stop altogether.  I think it will benefit you a great deal in this thread.

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I guess it's not too big a deal unless I was going to frame it. I can see us framing all of our NIN and just keeping the vinyl sleeves for listening. But who knows if we will do that. But enough of that stuff.. who's excited for some live shows?! We're flying across country for NY and driving to Chicago as well. Wish we could go to the Ca shows too. Cant wait! Havent seen him in a few years. 

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7 hours ago, Derek™ said:

Are you dense or just trolling?

Fresh carton of milk ≠ spoiled carton of milk ≠ carton of milk with crushed corner.

And there are various grades of things worth bitching about.  Would you return a candy bar that someone broke in half, unbeknownst to yourself at the checkout line?  Would you refuse to sign for a $20,000 car because it arrived with a small scuff on the left headlight, from a stray piece of gravel on the highway?  That's entirely different than buying fruit that's spoiled, or having your car arrive with a busted windshield and loose locks on the back door.

 

Seriously, stop and consider what you're writing.  Or stop altogether.  I think it will benefit you a great deal in this thread.

I certainly wouldn't accept delivery without the issue being fixed---i.e., Sandbag should send replacement mailers and address their shipping issues, the first of which has already happened for a bunch of people on here with Deviations, including myself.  My Before the Flood showed up perfect.  The other records should too.  There's no reason a company cannot get records to consumers in mint condition.  They're brand fucking new.  

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The "What if it was a car?!" argument is always my favorite when it pops up.

 

Do you need to go in to your bank and talk with someone in one of the offices and then sign a bunch of documents when you buy a new record? Are you going to be paying for the Radiohead -OK Computer 3xLP every month for the next 5 years?

 

Also, if you go to pick up a car and it's dented/scratched they can fix that without sending you a whole new car

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38 minutes ago, Bladewillisisdead said:

The "What if it was a car?!" argument is always my favorite when it pops up.

 

Do you need to go in to your bank and talk with someone in one of the offices and then sign a bunch of documents when you buy a new record? Are you going to be paying for the Radiohead -OK Computer 3xLP every month for the next 5 years?

 

Also, if you go to pick up a car and it's dented/scratched they can fix that without sending you a whole new car

That makes no sense.  You can buy a car with cash.  You can sign a simple one page bill of sale.  In any event, a purchase is still a contractual relationship, despite not having to sign a bunch of formal documents.  The point is, apparently people are willing to accept damaged goods at a certain price threshold.  That's fine.  I am not, and I don't think it should be an industry standard.  Nor do I subscribe to the "it's the nature of the goods being sold to show up damaged" argument.  It's silly.  If you buy a new record, it should show up in new condition.  That should not be a controversial proposition.  

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10 minutes ago, thischarmingman said:

That makes no sense.  You can buy a car with cash.  You can sign a simple one page bill of sale.  In any event, a purchase is still a contractual relationship, despite not having to sign a bunch of formal documents.  The point is, apparently people are willing to accept damaged goods at a certain price threshold.  That's fine.  I am not, and I don't think it should be an industry standard.  Nor do I subscribe to the "it's the nature of the goods being sold to show up damaged" argument.  It's silly.  If you buy a new record, it should show up in new condition.  That should not be a controversial proposition.  

I think you're missing the point. And you're definitively wrong on a few points. Think about the incredible difference in the resilience of the material with which the car and the record jacket are built respectively. It is a completely inept comparison. Think about the difference in the type of handling during the shipping processes. This analogy simply doesn't work. There are enormous factors which make these products not equivalent. I understand your position on how a new thing should arrive new but there is too much potential for damage to go around expecting that card stock inside cardboard should never ever ever get smushed, dinged or any other minute type of damage that's possible. Think about the physicality of the product and the process by which it is transmitted and maybe adjust your parameters for your method of acquisition of that type of product i.e buy it from a physical store so you assess whether the condition is up to your standard. Cardstock inside cardboard crossing hundreds of miles. This is Earth not heaven. 

 

Should they have been packed better? Yes. But even great packing can result in minute damage. 

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7 hours ago, Dustinhxc said:

who's excited for some live shows?! We're flying across country for NY and driving to Chicago as well. Wish we could go to the Ca shows too. Cant wait! Havent seen him in a few years. 

I'm really hoping for a non-festival NY date soon. I'm assuming there's a whole tour being planned so I don't mind sitting out Panorama.

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1 hour ago, Bladewillisisdead said:

The "What if it was a car?!" argument is always my favorite when it pops up.

 

Do you need to go in to your bank and talk with someone in one of the offices and then sign a bunch of documents when you buy a new record? Are you going to be paying for the Radiohead -OK Computer 3xLP every month for the next 5 years?

 

Also, if you go to pick up a car and it's dented/scratched they can fix that without sending you a whole new car

The buying a car is like buying a record meme is one of my favorites.  You know you've been on VC too much when you've seen that "argument" sprout up on 2-3 separate occasions.  And yet it never really loses its comical merit.

 

55 minutes ago, thischarmingman said:

That makes no sense.  You can buy a car with cash.  You can sign a simple one page bill of sale.  In any event, a purchase is still a contractual relationship, despite not having to sign a bunch of formal documents.  The point is, apparently people are willing to accept damaged goods at a certain price threshold.  That's fine.  I am not, and I don't think it should be an industry standard.  Nor do I subscribe to the "it's the nature of the goods being sold to show up damaged" argument.  It's silly.  If you buy a new record, it should show up in new condition.  That should not be a controversial proposition.  

Alright man.  If you sincerely feel that way, I wish you the best of luck in waiting anywhere from an additional week to an additional month before receiving a copy of a pre-order that's acceptable by your lofty standards.  You can also look forward to being that guy – you know, the one who e-mails a label every single time his order arrives with a dinged corner, only to have the label's customer service roll their eyes and gesture a dick tug before sending you a replacement jacket with even less packaging.  Sounds like a quality use of time to me... and definitely the best way to consume music in 2017.

 

Check out Bull Moose's thoughts on vinyl, courtesy of their general FAQ.

 

Quote

Vinyl isn't perfect - Prestine covers are rare. So is perfectly flat vinyl. We will send you the best looking copy we have and deal with any isses you have.

Right below that, they do encourage you to e-mail them if you're unsatisfied with your order, but they throw out that disclaimer to the anal retentive beforehand, as a general warning that not every record you ever order is going to contain immaculately flat vinyl, 4 crisp corners, and zero seam wear.  In a perfect world, sure, I do agree with you – you're paying for a product and it should arrive as it does straight out of the factory.  But that's not how it works when ordering such a fragile medium and having it shipped from a different state or a different country.  This is coming straight from a company who specializes in shipping out records – good fucking luck trying your hand on something like Discogs or Ebay.  I think you should actually post your username for both of those sites, ahead of time, so the majority of VC can go ahead and block you as a healthy precaution.  I know I would.

 

That being said, I do think one of two things will happen, going forward.  I think that if you continue to purchase vinyl at any frequency that exceeds 1 album per month, you will eventually grow up and realize how pointless (and futile) it is to demand a 100% flawless product from every outlet you place an order with.  I think a lot of labels will entertain the request for the sake of good customer service, but is a tiny corner ding worth being resented?  Imagine receiving a double LP where the vinyl had room to bounce around in transit.  It arrives with a bit of seam wear, and there's a little distortion from some of the haze coloring pressed at the plant.  You write the label an e-mail; they're in the minority of labels who don't ask for a photo and play along with the idea of sending you a replacement copy if you mail yours back in.  A week later, and you get a brand new copy.  Except – fuck – the USPS did not pay attention to that "Fragile" stamp, and clearly crushed the mailer, so now one corner is bent.  Time to write the label and request a new jacket, now.

 

Seriously, man.  Don't be that guy.  Just don't.  From the bottom of my heart – fuck that.

 

The second option I foresee for you, is finding a new hobby or a new means of exploring music.  I think this will benefit anyone you order from and also spare you your sanity.  I strongly encourage this.

 

29 minutes ago, vinyl addict said:

Who the fuck cares. Can we quit bumping this thread with all this petty bullshit?

Probably not.

Edited by Derek™
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1 hour ago, thischarmingman said:

That makes no sense.  You can buy a car with cash.  You can sign a simple one page bill of sale.  In any event, a purchase is still a contractual relationship, despite not having to sign a bunch of formal documents.  The point is, apparently people are willing to accept damaged goods at a certain price threshold.  That's fine.  I am not, and I don't think it should be an industry standard.  Nor do I subscribe to the "it's the nature of the goods being sold to show up damaged" argument.  It's silly.  If you buy a new record, it should show up in new condition.  That should not be a controversial proposition.  

Still...cash or credit, you can look at the fucking car before you hand them a wad of cash.

 

 

It's also a car...not a record. Physical media is just that, physical. Stick to MP3s, Bruh.

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