You know what, this is pretty cool - Mag Lev Audio Levitating Turntable

[slinch]

 

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/245727224/mag-lev-audio-the-first-levitating-turntable

Edited October 15, 2016 by slinch

[Han Solo]

I think I'd rather see that technology applied to, like, an actual hoverboard than a turntable 

[circuit bored records]

Fuck if I didn't think it actually looked cool.

 

They got me good. 

[boops_popmarket]

If I'm gonna buy a stupid novelty turntable, it's gonna be something like this that involves magnets and LED lights.  WOULD BUY IF I WAS RICH AND NEEDED TO LOSE $800.

[slinch]

5 hours ago, yanquiuxo said:

Fuck if I didn't think it actually looked cool.

 

They got me good. 

It does indeed look cool.

 

I'm actually going to a local hifi show this weekend, and I just read that this table will be unveiled as well.  So I'll be able to give first hand impressions hopefully.

[daegor]

This, in theory, could have next to no noise or bass transfer...

[slinch]

Yeah, but in theory it could also have next to no speed and platter stability or rigidity.

[TheGhostOfRandySavage]

2 hours ago, daegor said:

This, in theory, could have next to no noise or bass transfer...

Yeah, this is what I was thinking. Not sure why this is considered dumb like that sideways TT, which actually was stupid. I'm sure they've worked on platter stability and speed regulation... People have been working on something like this for years.

[daegor]

2 hours ago, slinch said:

Yeah, but in theory it could also have next to no speed and platter stability or rigidity.

 

39 minutes ago, The Ghost of Randy Savage said:

I'm sure they've worked on platter stability and speed regulation... People have been working on something like this for years.

 

I thought of this too.

 

I also wonder how sensitive the levitation source is to vibration.  If the base moved enough it could make the plate wobble.  You could eliminate mechanical transfer and introduce a whole new problem

[allenh]

4 hours ago, slinch said:

It does indeed look cool.

 

I'm actually going to a local hifi show this weekend, and I just read that this table will be unveiled as well.  So I'll be able to give first hand impressions hopefully.

You have me intrigued, I expect a full report in triplicate on my desk the morning after the show.

 

Although I have a horrible suspicion this ones going to be as cack as all the rest I'd actually like to see this one work because:

 

A) it looks interesting

I like the engineering process they are going through

C) I can see a valid reason for what they are trying to overcome from a  engineering problem solving perspective

D) Did I mention I like the look of it?

 

I am concerned about both physical and speed stability though as these seem the obvious issues so I'd be interested in what floor and furniture it's sitting on and how well you can lightly nudge it when in use without making the people responsible for it scream.

Speed stability should be easier to overcome than physical platter stability as levitation is usually over a small point in relation to mass rather than a relatively large one like this platter and also how do you keep it exactly centered?

 

[TheGhostOfRandySavage]

I'd imagine that the platter is suspended by a ring of repelling magnets around the outside of the platter, keeping it centered, but driven somehow by attracting magnets in the center of the platter somehow. Kind of a circle with a line in the center. Those attracting magnets would also help to keep it centered I'd think.

 

just conjecture obviously, but this would be the first thing I'd try if I were working on something like this.

[allenh]

I get the idea but still struggle to see how it will not deviate from centre more than a conventional bearing and spindle, and how that won't cause the odd tracking error. e.g. Will the stabilising force be strong enough for it to cope with an off centre record?

I think it will be great if it does work reliably but there are a few things that worry me stability wise

Edited October 13, 2016 by allenh
missing a b

[allenh]

Another question to ask @slinch, if it's magnetically driven what effect will those magnets have on either a MM or MC cartridge over time and will they limit signal output

[MicLima]

Looks pretty damn cool.  Dude in the video could've sat in a better fucking chair after putting his non-descript record on.  He just looked uncomfortable.

[Thomas³]

6 hours ago, allenh said:

Another question to ask @slinch, if it's magnetically driven what effect will those magnets have on either a MM or MC cartridge over time and will they limit signal output

That was a concern I thought of too. DD table's magnets don't seem to affect carts, but I'm sure they are a lot less powerful than ones that can suspend a metal platter.

[slinch]

So, I saw this today, a couple of tidbits:

 

- This is the first and currently the only working prototype, so there are still a ton of bugs to sort out. It wasn't even hooked up to a proper system, just to a random PA monitor. More or less proof of concept.

- They admitted that they aren't aiming at an audiophile market, at least not with this first model. The lead guy behind the whole thing said that they pretty much hope that it will perform as good as your entry level pro-ject. So you're basically getting a $250 turntable, but add a $500 levitating feature.

- The magnetic field was a big issue at first, it even pulled the cart completely to the center of the platter. They apparently almost completely eliminated its effect with a layer of some sort of soft iron, placed near the top of the platter so that it is above both magnets, so just under the record. It's apparently enough of a shielding to prevent any audible impact on the cart. They did add that it will still probably be too strong for MC carts though, so at least for now it is only intended for use with MM carts.

- The centering of the platter is achieved by coils, which  create  a kind of a funnel field (I have no idea how exactly it works or how to express it in english, but if I find a good explanation I will post it). This basically forces the platter to stay in the center, and if you put some horizontal force to the platter (try to move it sideways), it will actually stay completely in place, because the coils adapt to the changes "a thousand times per second". When the horizontal force exceeds what the coils can resist, the platter will immediately fall down, it doesn't have practically any leeway. When it does fall down, the platter obviously moves enough so that the magnets attract, meaning you might need help from someone holding the table down so that you can lift the platter again. They didn't try it out off course because they only have one. This makes me think it will be very sensitive to nudges, basically if you unintentionally bang your foot against the rack where this thing is on, you might destroy it. When you switch off the turntable, it starts to slow down the platter, once the platters stops the feet lift up basically only to hold it centered (the magnets that make the platter levitate are permanent), only once the feet catch the platter the coils that take care of centering can turn off. If your electricity goes out, the built in UPS will take care of the "switch off" procedure.

- Any vertical "pushes" on the platter should stabilize very quickly, no idea how this affects sound. Obviously you cannot brush your records while this is in air, but when it's resting on the feet, they give enough support to do so freely.

- I've asked about vinyl weight, they said that kind of by sheer luck, the added weight of heavier vinyl lowers the platter pretty much exactly for the difference in thickness of that vinyl. Lucky, because there is currently no plans for VTA adjustments, due to sensors in the tonearm base. However any pucks/clamps/weights are out of the question.  I did ask about the clearaudio clever clamp, which is very light, but they said they have no idea, though will look into it.

- The tonearm base has sensors that automatically lift (though not return) the tonearm when it reaches the end of the record,  apparently to "reduce the wear of vinyl", though I said that this is almost never an issue any manufacturer worries about. Not sure if there is any other reason for it or if they just really worry that much about wear.  When you put the tonearm back in its resting place, the table automatically starts the shutdown procedure (platter stops, feet come up).

- There was some worry that the speed wouldn't be constant because of the coils in between magnets, which would kind of mean the platter gets "boosts" in certain locations, but they avoided this with some kind of an algorithm that does something about speed. Don't remember (and don't understand) really. 

- Not sure what material the actual platter will be, the current one is 3D printed, because they couldn't get a properly manufactured prototype yet (apparently they started actually building this whole project just this February). It should weigh about 1.6 kilograms (roughly 3 pounds).

- Design is pretty much final, the only thing they mentioned is that the speed select button, which is now a bit raised, might end up flush with the surface of the plinth, as with how it is now, if the platter happens to fall on it, the button might get busted.

- They haven't actually done any real measurements yet (cart performance, speed stability, interference, basic electrical stuff I know little about). It's all planed in the near future (hopefully next few days).

 

That's all off the top of my head, if you guys have any questions ask away, but I think I covert pretty much all that was said. But yeah, proof of concept, they are well aware that this is not going to focus on sound quality, though they do aim to be on par with what other things that include the same tonearm/cart can do. Only measurements will tell if there are actually any benefits to the whole "this platter is in mid air" thing, they hope there are.

 

I think I might have have to change the thread title now. This thing knows its place, and it's honestly pretty damn cool.

 

(sorry for the shaky clips, there were a ton of people struggling to see this, so it was hard to keep still)

 

[allenh]

OK thanks for that exhaustive and interesting report @slinch, that answered a lot of my questions and in summary it's not intended for high end and is a cool looking but basically functional and expensive gimmick.

 

I like the funnel idea and what they are doing is focusing the field to a point with sufficient strength to hold the reference point for the spindle and why there is no tolerance in it. This does mean it's limitations are still in the areas I thought it might be though like physical and speed stability, overcoming the effect of those coils on speed will be difficult and the human ear is very good at picking up fluctuations in speed and its limitation of not being able to use a MC cart but as you say it knows it's place and it's market along with it's potential client.

 

There is some very good engineering in this thing and some of it may have applications elsewhere so for that alone it's a lot more credible than all the other gimmick turntables of recent years and a very worthwhile exercise.

 

I still like it even though it's obviously aimed at the facial topiary loving Bose owner and I could see me buying one used from someone who has got bored with it to show off to people with as a gimmick but at it's new price it's just too much gimmick for me unfortunately.

That said from a marketing point of view they have to aim it at people who are likely to value the gimmickry over performance otherwise they are not going to sell many so I have to give them a thumbs up for that as well.

[ghjghj]

As soon as I've seen this I remembered this vid:

 

Edited October 16, 2016 by ASSARTOSE

[ghjghj]

Magnets are pretty cool, yeah, but they create magnetic field(and in this case the strong one) an your cartrige have magnets inside too.

The whole idea looks really cool, but it's too many things to consider (static/magnets in cartrige/change of speed/offcenter records(warped records) that sway plate harder with each turn).