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CONVERGE - Jane Live 2xLP (5 different artist covers) PO Now!


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...um, ok. Let's play a gig. Hype it, record it, and then let's press it on vinyl and release it with 5 different covers so every variant looks like a different album.  This way our most faithful fans will be so confused about which variant to buy and most likely end up buying all variants and pay us 100$ for one record(ing). And the best part is that we will sell out even faster! What you guys think? Yeah, great idea! Service the account, George Carlin style.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Blood Moon project gets a similar treatment.

Very mixed feelings here from a long time fan. I think I'm gonna quit supporting Converge...

"Thanks."

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15 minutes ago, Vucko said:

...um, ok. Let's play a gig. Hype it, record it, and then let's press it on vinyl and release it with 5 different covers so every variant looks like a different album.  This way our most faithful fans will be so confused about which variant to buy and most likely end up buying all variants and pay us 100$ for one record(ing). And the best part is that we will sell out even faster! What you guys think? Yeah, great idea! Service the account, George Carlin style.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Blood Moon project gets a similar treatment.

Very mixed feelings here from a long time fan. I think I'm gonna quit supporting Converge...

"Thanks."

Absolutely no way this post is anywhere within the realm of serious.  Being a blatant troll within your first 4 posts is a gutsy move but I will say that I respect the changeup.  You're brand new and already have us on our toes with your implication that this release is less about collaborating with talented artists and giving fans multiple avenues to explore something cool, and more about holding a gun to our heads and intentionally forcing everyone to buy everything.  You know the Converge boys; consistently milking that cash cow and creating irrationally priced products, just to spite their fans.

 

My head is spinning.

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21 minutes ago, Vucko said:

...um, ok. Let's play a gig. Hype it, record it, and then let's press it on vinyl and release it with 5 different covers so every variant looks like a different album.  This way our most faithful fans will be so confused about which variant to buy and most likely end up buying all variants and pay us 100$ for one record(ing). And the best part is that we will sell out even faster! What you guys think? Yeah, great idea! Service the account, George Carlin style.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Blood Moon project gets a similar treatment.

Very mixed feelings here from a long time fan. I think I'm gonna quit supporting Converge...

"Thanks."

Spicy 4th post.

Ok so to start off "Hyping" a gig where your widely celebrated band play their most famous and well liked album is totally fine. Tonnes of bands do anniversary tours for particular albums and the demand for this show would have been huge. Recording it also gives those lucky enough to attend a chance of having a memento of what I imagine was a great experience whilst simultaneously allowing those who weren't there a chance to join in the experience.

As far as variants go Converge have a huge cult following many of whom are variant collectors who buy every colourway version of a release they can. Giving these guys who already buy everything the chance to have Five separate designs rather than five duplicate jackets is pretty cool considering most variant hunters collect for aesthetics and art as normally the only differentiation is the discs themselves which most likely don't get taken out of their sleeves all that often.

 

Confusing? Not really they are all called Converge-Jane Live if you see 5 different covers but the same title and still assume there's different content then I'd say you need to engage your brain a little bit more.

 

As far as marketing it in order to sell out, Converge sells like wildfire no matter what. 500 a variant  is in line with the You Fail Me Redux press which noone cried about having a hard time getting hold of.

For me this like most Deathwish Inc. stuff has been handled in a way that is clear, above board and as a service to the fans.

 

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@Derektm

I'm serious about my criticism about the way they choose to release this record. I'm judging it only from the business perspective. I  didn't criticize  the artist collaboration or judged the aesthetics. Calling me a "blatant troll" just because you don't agree with my opinion is, I guess, called jumping to conclusions.

Anyway, I only claim that this way of releasing may also be interpreted as a way of producing more extra reasons for buying more than one record instead of just one copy. Which of course serves Converge's self-interest, business-wise. If you just buy one copy and you are a real fan of Converge for a long time you perhaps feel incomplete, so you wanna buy more.  Previous posts support this claim. This fact got me disappointed. Well, and the fact that I'm being instantly vilified as "blatant troll" just for some criticism. 

 

@StressOnTheSky

I understand your point of view and partly share it. With regard to your altruistic interpretation, please bear in mind that Converge are also businessmen who need to pay bills. They are aware about their crazy "must collect all variants" fans. Perhaps, too aware. Jane Live sort of screens this awareness more than ever.

Edited by Vucko
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Converge's releases always have a limited aspect for fans who order early. They never do it in a way that feels shitty or exploitative. 4 limited variants (of equal quantity) and 1 larger pressed variant is pretty fair and a lot better than how some bands/labels do things. The different covers is a nice touch and actually made it much easier for me to pick a variant. Hell, with a lot of their albums the rarest variant (friends and family clear) is randomly inserted into orders at no charge. They press 100 records to just give away essentially.

 

Do they know some people are gonna buy 2-5 copies? Of course. Do I think they're "banking" on it or trying to force people for their own gain? Not at all. Those limited copies would still sell out even if everyone only bought 1.

 

There are a lot of bands/labels you could criticize, Deathwish is not one of them. I (and probably most people in this thread) have been buying from DW for well over a decade. They've never half assed anything and they have always actually given a shit about the fans who buy from them.

 

So yeah, feel free to criticize, just know that everyone here will disagree with you adamantly.

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1 hour ago, Vucko said:

...um, ok. Let's play a gig. Hype it, record it, and then let's press it on vinyl and release it with 5 different covers so every variant looks like a different album.  This way our most faithful fans will be so confused about which variant to buy and most likely end up buying all variants and pay us 100$ for one record(ing). And the best part is that we will sell out even faster! What you guys think? Yeah, great idea! Service the account, George Carlin style.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Blood Moon project gets a similar treatment.

Very mixed feelings here from a long time fan. I think I'm gonna quit supporting Converge...

"Thanks."

 

Really, a long time fan quit supporting because of this? Ridiculous. All the dudes in Converge are hard-working people who are committed to music. They deserve every penny they get. 

Blood Moon could get the same treatment and I would honestly be glad if it did! First of all, it's cool that they played these shows at all. Special concerts like these should be recorded and released. It's a shame if they didn't. Most live releases are quite boring to be fair, so I'm glad they did something special like this. 

I just don't agree with your logic. If they were really looking to make some money then there would have been 5 different variants with only one artwork piece for the record. There would still be lots of collectors buying all the variants. So this is a special service for the fans imo and a cool project for both the band and artists to be a part of. Also, they will only repress the Ashley Couture edition (If the demand is there). None of the other variants will be repressed and they're limited to 500 each. So even if there weren't any variant collectors among Converge fans those would still easily have sold out. Oh, and hey not to mention that it's more expensive to have so many artists involved rather than just one artist making the artwork for the record. 

I've seen people bitching about lots of things, but this is just silly.

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@Vucko: the fact you're on the fence of no longer supporting the band suggests that there has been a frame of time when you were on board with Converge and their method of releasing music... which truthfully hasn't really been different from this release, to be honest.  You should be no stranger to the fact that their releases come in different flavors through several options of purchase.  And if anything, the artist collaborations this time around make it feel as though it's especially "worth it" to double dip, triple dip, or go all out.  That's just me though.

 

How did you feel about their last live release?  With its $100 price-tag, did you scoff at the fact there were 2 variants to collect?  Because that's an instant $200, which outweighs the total cost of grabbing all of the Jane Live variants.  How did you feel about the way they handled All We Love We Leave Behind?  That was something along the lines of 4 variants out of the gate – which you had no control over selecting – along with a "hidden" friends & family press, a CD, and a CD housed in an art booklet.  Some versions had fewer tracks than others, too.  Did you view all of that as Converge releasing their music on multiple platforms at various price-points for flexible access?  Or did you also assume that it was just a way for Deathwish Inc. to "pad its banking account", or whatever it is you're accusing them of doing?

 

And like wexzer said – a normal person would shrug and maybe post something along the lines of "damn, there's too many variants for me to keep up with this time around.  Oh well".  You have completely jumped the shark, it seems, and are vowing to deny Converge of any future purchases.  Do you not realize how absurd that is on paper?  You feel how you feel and voice what you want to voice, but you're not at liberty to assume people won't call you a troll with that line of logic.

 

Deathwish has never been about lining their pockets.  They strive to keep material in print at affordable costs, and it's all pressed at a reliable, solid quality from my experience.  You strike me as the type of person who grumbles and rolls their eyes when Deathwish announce another variant of Axe To Fall for cheap, because the last colorway sold out completely.

 

The cheeky "Thanks" at the end of your post also feels like a snarky jab at Jake and co.  I stand by my original accustation of trolling afoot.

Edited by Derek™
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i think a band can do whatever the hell they want with their music but i didnt buy this because im just not a fan of live albums. for me, this would be a "one and done" listen before it gets relegated to my record shelf and then i go back to listening to my copy of jane doe. cool release but its not for me. ill certainly check out a stream of it though. 

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3 minutes ago, mattisr1984 said:

i think a band can do whatever the hell they want with their music but i didnt buy this because im just not a fan of live albums. for me, this would be a "one and done" listen before it gets relegated to my record shelf and then i go back to listening to my copy of jane doe. cool release but its not for me. ill certainly check out a stream of it though. 

I'm also not overly big on live albums, but this feels like a significant exception to me.  Not debating your stance, but if this were a random setlist of theirs presses onto vinyl and slapped with a black-and-white photo of a live performance with the venue and date slapped on the cover, I'd be considerably less excited to hear it.  They're obviously pulling out some nice punches with the art and variants, and I'm confident they'll do the same with the packaging and audio.  I think most people in this thread have listened to Jane Doe in its entirety many, many times over the years... so to hear it in full with a different mix, and flourished with live nuances will be pretty refreshing, I think.  I doubt I'll end up playing it more than the official album, going forward, but I do foresee myself enjoying it a good bit and viewing it as something much more than a live bootleg – not that you were labeling it as such.

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Lol. I didn't even know which variant I bought because I went with the art I liked most. The band and label executed this release flawlessly. I'm not big on live albums either, most of the ones I have are live renditions of full albums like BTBAM's Colors. I would love a blu ray of Jane Live though, that shit would be fucking rad. 

 

Bring on Blood Moooooooooon

Edited by throughbeingcruel
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1 hour ago, Derek™ said:

I'm also not overly big on live albums, but this feels like a significant exception to me.  Not debating your stance, but if this were a random setlist of theirs presses onto vinyl and slapped with a black-and-white photo of a live performance with the venue and date slapped on the cover, I'd be considerably less excited to hear it.  They're obviously pulling out some nice punches with the art and variants, and I'm confident they'll do the same with the packaging and audio.  I think most people in this thread have listened to Jane Doe in its entirety many, many times over the years... so to hear it in full with a different mix, and flourished with live nuances will be pretty refreshing, I think.  I doubt I'll end up playing it more than the official album, going forward, but I do foresee myself enjoying it a good bit and viewing it as something much more than a live bootleg – not that you were labeling it as such.

to be fair, 10 years ago i probably would have bought all 5 copies just because but as an older dude thats been buying records for a long time - its just not that important to me anymore and ive realized that compulsion to be a "completionist" just doesnt matter. i also didnt buy the live boxset.  i think the art re-interpretation is a cool concept. the ashley rose one is killer - and i wasnt familiar with her work prior to this. the stuff she posted on instagram about creating the piece was pretty awesome. the others though... eh. florian looks like he put the most thought into his piece but separate the image from the music and i wouldnt think jane doe. baizley's had the most potential to be completely mindblowing but i think is pretty weak compared to his other work. maybe hes moving in another direction artistically that im just not aware (but damn, purple had some amazing artwork). the hooper and ortiz covers im indifferent to. my point being though that the art/presentation doesnt really make me want to own a live album id probably only spin once. im saying all this knowing i absolutely love jane doe as an album and i love the original art so i admit some bias to the album in its original form. 

 

heres my other thing though - and i suppose this is more of a commentary/observation of people buying/collecting records in 2017 now more than anything - but if this came out before jane doe ever received any sort of repress people on here would overwhelmingly bitch left and right about it. and i make that point because it does raise the question of "would the release stand entirely on its own to most people or are people just now in a mode of satisfying their compulsion to "catch em all?" nevermind the amount complaints from people about $25 represses of previously hard to find albums on here - but do a live album with some nice art and nobody really bats an eyelash at it. ill digress from this point though because i totally realize that as long as someone is able to rationalize in their own head that the purchase makes sense - then theyre ok with it - and they're not really doing anything different than i am in determining whether or not i buy a record in 2017. i just happen to be in the minority on this particular release. so, i understand where vucko is coming from. the difference is i just dont really care what converge, or any other band, does with their music or how they choose to release it. it doesn't make me stop supporting them entirely. thats just silly. as it stands, i will be checking out a stream of this whenever its available and buying the hell out of the next full length. 

Edited by mattisr1984
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3 hours ago, Derek™ said:

I'm also not overly big on live albums, but this feels like a significant exception to me.  Not debating your stance, but if this were a random setlist of theirs presses onto vinyl and slapped with a black-and-white photo of a live performance with the venue and date slapped on the cover, I'd be considerably less excited to hear it.  They're obviously pulling out some nice punches with the art and variants, and I'm confident they'll do the same with the packaging and audio.  I think most people in this thread have listened to Jane Doe in its entirety many, many times over the years... so to hear it in full with a different mix, and flourished with live nuances will be pretty refreshing, I think.  I doubt I'll end up playing it more than the official album, going forward, but I do foresee myself enjoying it a good bit and viewing it as something much more than a live bootleg – not that you were labeling it as such.

Exactly how I feel

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Derek,

the contempt in your address to me is so blatant that I'm not even going to take the time to answer your "questions". Regretfully, that would be just a waste of time. You don't strike me as a person who is interested in constructive conversation on this matter.  Admittedly, my initial post is a bit too extreme, I acknowledge that. I probably should have waited until my disappointment had worn off. However, your somewhat sweeping assumptions pretty much distort what I wanted to convey. I was only commenting on the marketing strategy of this particular release in connection with the frenzy of the compulsory completists. My point is: both seem to be complementary, more than ever before; and yes, I don't like this development too much. Naturally, artists collaborate with artists, what a surprise. It's just not that altruistic after all. For the record, I didn't comment on the label Deathwish in general and most certainly did not call their quality standards into question. Deathwish still is a good address for quality music.

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Haha, alright, man.  It is what it is.  From what I gather from your above post, you're just salty that they released variants for this album... yes?  No?  I don't think this particular release caters to the "completionist frenzy".  If there were 3 colored variants on Deathwish, one on KRM, one from the KRM euro shop, and another that was tour exclusive, but they all featured the same cover art... would you still be ranting about it?  Would that still be a "cash grab"?  Because I can assure you that there are several people in this thread who'd snatch all of them up, either way.  Feel free to treat those questions rhetorically like you did my last ones, which I feel were still very valid despite the condescending tone of my post.

 

I'm just confused, I guess, as to why you're so displeased with the amount of variants and options for this particular Converge release.  It doesn't feel like anything new.  Is it the idea of "variant collecting" that you're perhaps displeased with?  If so, I regret to inform you that you've definitely selected the wrong forum to voice that frustration with, friend.

 

Whatever the root of your grief is, I'm glad you can at least realize how hyperbolic your first post was.  At the end of the day, the world will keep turning regardless – nothing I can say will sway your stance on Converge's marketing approach with this release, and nothing you can say will diminish my excitement to have this release in my hands.  And that's fine.  We don't have to dispute any of that.  I was just giving you shit for treating this release as though 100% of the proceeds were going to fund Trump and affiliated big ideas.

Edited by Derek™
Autocorrect.
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11 minutes ago, jhulud said:

Derek, just give up. You'll always be wrong and your opinions are way too opinionated. 

 

29DE7B99-A54B-477B-B751-5618FDEE2CE8.gif

 

:rolleyes:

I can't disagree with that last bit.  But at this point I do believe we've all established what we're going to establish, so I have little else to say.  I just hope the inevitable pre-order for the new Converge album isn't as big of a circus.

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Ok Derek, I will try to answer some of your questions and elaborate on my critic. I will once again try to make it a bit more detached and empirical and less emotional. 

1. 

Quote

you're just salty that they released variants for this album... yes?  No?

No, Converge have always released variants of their physical releases, i.e. colored vinyl. And they always designed them to be desirable collectors items. I call this the classical release model of color variants. This is actually a distinct attribute of releasing records among so called independent record labels.

I can only think of one first press release that came with different artwork, that is the Brutal Truth split 7". But the different artwork was only limited to the one variant; it was thus more of a special gimmick. The Brutal Truth split, I would say, still adheres to the conventions of the classic release model.

The result: you'll get the already mentioned completist, who needs to buy all variants to be happy. You'll have the aesthetic, who goes with the color variant that, in his opinion, reflects the artwork of the album best. You'll have the casual buyer who just wants a physical release and gets what he can get. And lastly you'll have the vain collector who only wants the most limited release. 

 

2. 

Quote

...why you're so displeased with the amount of variants and options for this particular Converge release.  It doesn't feel like anything new.

I don't think this particular release caters to the "completionist frenzy".

First, I really cannot argue against your feelings Derek, and I won't. If you say you don't feel like this is anything new, I can't do much about that. But perhaps if you could open your eyes for me, just for a moment, you could at least see what I'm indicating.

If you look back at the way they released their previous records, with regard to creating collectible variants, they never before released a first press that constitutes five limited color variants all housed in different covers, of which 4 are one press only covers in equal numbers. In this respect they definitely took the variant concept a step further and thus, in my opinion, escalated the collection urge.

The precise result you get is a catering to the completist frenzy; and it is out in the open for everybody to see:

Quote
On 16.1.2017 at 11:50 PM, Reshiram454 said:

Converge fans are wild.

that's an understatement. we are fucking insane

Quote

I grabbed all 5.  No self control.

Quote

I bought all 5. Didn't want to have an  empty spot in my Converge collection.

Quote

Nabbed all five. Cuz why not.

Quote

Grabbed all 5, Thomas Hooper is the one I like the most

This particular new marketing strategy, I would argue, potentially turns the vain collector into a completist as well and probably also confuses the aesthetic who now has to consider the different covers, which constitute yet another buying argument to take into account, and before he can think straight the aesthetic bought a second record or even a third.

 

My second and final reason for being disappointed with this release is the arbitrary and inconsistent concept. Jane Doe is undisputedly Converge's hallmark record. Perhaps precisely because of that, everyone here somewhat romanticizes the whole Jane Live concept to be altruistic and Fan service. I second that. 

First, the whole artist collaboration comes off unnatural and forced. Why? Because it was not the concept of the live performance to begin with. Think about it, if they were to release the Blood Moon live set in the exact same manner it would make for a much more consistent overall concept. The whole Blood Moon concept was about collaborating with artists to create something new and unique. Thus the artist collaboration on the physical release of a Blood Moon live set would be much more consistent and feel more organic. Instead, for the Jane live concept, they chose to play an exclusive gig in Europe based on a special 2 exclusive gigs contract with Roadburn. The altruistic alternative could've been to play their hallmark record for a more affordable option, and without the festival hassle, in their hometown, record it there and afterwards release it for all the fans who would've loved to have attended this special moment. 

So, there is that. I know I'm probably the jerk now for pointing that out. But I'm also ready for all negative responses I'll probably receive for that. Just please bear in mind, it is just one guy with his opinion. 

Maybe you're right Derek and this not the place for me to find people to discuss these issues.

Edited by Vucko
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25 minutes ago, Vucko said:

This particular new marketing strategy, I would argue, potentially turns the vain collector into a completist as well and probably also confuses the aesthetic who now has to consider the different covers, which constitute yet another buying argument to take into account, and before he can think straight the aesthetic bought a second record or even a third.

It might be new to THEM, but in no way is it new.  No one is forced to buy them all..pick your favorite if that's your thing.  I'm not going to say there are no albums I have 2 copies of, but in general I think being a completist is ridiculous when there is so much incredible music out there.  If that's what some people are into then good for them, but the idea that people can't help themselves and that it's up to the bands and labels to save these helpless fiends from themselves is laughable.

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2 minutes ago, hammertime said:

It might be new to THEM, but in no way is it new.  No one is forced to buy them all..pick your favorite if that's your thing.  I'm not going to say there are no albums I have 2 copies of, but in general I think being a completist is ridiculous when there is so much incredible music out there.  If that's what some people are into then good for them, but the idea that people can't help themselves and that it's up to the bands and labels to save these helpless fiends from themselves is laughable.

I'm only laying out a development in the concept of releasing records. I don't say a word about responsibilities. That is your interpretation.

 

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