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Dealing with Paypal Dispute


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Recently I sold an album on discogs. The buyer has since been coming at me about it being not as exactly as described and opened a paypal dispute.

Has anyone dealt with this before? Only fault I can think of on my behalf is maybe over grading the jacket but it seemed fine when I sent it. I've been selling online for years and this is the only time really I've had someone being like this

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22 minutes ago, apirk said:

Honestly just take the return, it is probably not woRth dealing with this type of buyer.  Was it described as mint and there ended being a corner ding or something pretty minor.

Yeah just do the return. 

22 minutes ago, apirk said:

Honestly just take the return, it is probably not woRth dealing with this type of buyer.  Was it described as mint and there ended being a corner ding or something pretty minor.

Yeah just do the return. 

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"Ask for pictures"??  Seriously?   As a Discogs buyer I would stop communication at this point in the conversation and demand my money back from Paypal and use your message as proof that you are not negotiating in good faith.  

 

I think you should just authorize the customer's return.  He will be responsible for return shipping and providing proof of delivery back to you.  He has a certain time limit to do so, I can't remember how long he has.  Paypal has already taken the money from your account  anyway so you have to do something to get the process of recovering the money under way.

 

In my experience, you will shake out 50% of the buyer complaints at this point in the process.   They will be unhappy but will never complete the return.  On Amazon or Ebay, where customer's feedback is an issue to consider, I might recommend something different, but on Discogs I don't have the sense that feedback numbers matter so much.  

 

All IMO.

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I think you are just putting yourself in a weak position.

 

As it stands:

 

1) If you stop communicating: you lose the case, you lose your money, he keeps the LP.

2) If he stops communicating: the case expires, you keep your money, he keeps the LP.

 

He doesn't sound like he plans to stop communicating, so all you are doing is forcing him to provide proof of damage.  The photos he sends you will be sent through by Paypal and reviewable by them if called upon.  You are creating a situation where the customer might consider damaging the item further and then sending photos to prove his point.   The customer's photos, regardless of what they show, will not help your case get resolved.

 

1) The photos show the item is clearly damaged (whether by you, the customer, or the post office: it doesn't matter): Paypal will probably resolve the claim in the customer's favor: he gets to keep the item and the money.

2) The photos do NOT show the item is clearly damaged:  I think Paypal will side with the customer regardless and ask him to return the item to receive a refund.  You can accomplish the same result right now without forcing the customer to photograph, and potentially damage, the LP.  He will return the LP, perhaps in perfect condition, for a refund.  Or, as I expect might happen, he gives up, keeps the LP and you recover your money after the complaint expires.

 

There are no photos that the customers can provide that can win your case for you.   You do not have the option of cancelling the complaint if you feel the photos prove you are right and the customer is wrong.  All it does is help you decide whether you will require the customer to return the item before he gets his refund from you. 

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6 minutes ago, axotyl said:

also, depending how expensive the record was, he could also be pulling a bait and switch where he got a beat up record for cheap somewhere else and is returning that one to you, and keeping your clean record for cheap. 

Ooooh that is fucking low.  I hope this is not the case, OP.  Try not to even think about it.

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45 minutes ago, jackshidt said:

"Ask for pictures"??  Seriously?   As a Discogs buyer I would stop communication at this point in the conversation and demand my money back from Paypal and use your message as proof that you are not negotiating in good faith.  

 

I think you should just authorize the customer's return.  He will be responsible for return shipping and providing proof of delivery back to you.  He has a certain time limit to do so, I can't remember how long he has.  Paypal has already taken the money from your account  anyway so you have to do something to get the process of recovering the money under way.

 

In my experience, you will shake out 50% of the buyer complaints at this point in the process.   They will be unhappy but will never complete the return.  On Amazon or Ebay, where customer's feedback is an issue to consider, I might recommend something different, but on Discogs I don't have the sense that feedback numbers matter so much.  

 

All IMO.

True, should have asked for pictures before the paypal dispute, but we don't know that the buyer ever contacted him before. Also a dispute is different from a claim. If I get a record that was beat up in the mail the first thing I do when I email the seller/label is send them pictures.

23 minutes ago, jackshidt said:

I think you are just putting yourself in a weak position.

 

As it stands:

 

1) If you stop communicating: you lose the case, you lose your money, he keeps the LP.

2) If he stops communicating: the case expires, you keep your money, he keeps the LP.

 

He doesn't sound like he plans to stop communicating, so all you are doing is forcing him to provide proof of damage.  The photos he sends you will be sent through by Paypal and reviewable by them if called upon.  You are creating a situation where the customer might consider damaging the item further and then sending photos to prove his point.   The customer's photos, regardless of what they show, will not help your case get resolved.

 

1) The photos show the item is clearly damaged (whether by you, the customer, or the post office: it doesn't matter): Paypal will probably resolve the claim in the customer's favor: he gets to keep the item and the money.

2) The photos do NOT show the item is clearly damaged:  I think Paypal will side with the customer regardless and ask him to return the item to receive a refund.  You can accomplish the same result right now without forcing the customer to photograph, and potentially damage, the LP.  He will return the LP, perhaps in perfect condition, for a refund.  Or, as I expect might happen, he gives up, keeps the LP and you recover your money after the complaint expires.

 

There are no photos that the customers can provide that can win your case for you.   You do not have the option of cancelling the complaint if you feel the photos prove you are right and the customer is wrong.  All it does is help you decide whether you will require the customer to return the item before he gets his refund from you. 

There is no you lose the case, you lose the money, he keeps the LP. Paypal will require that they return the record to you. They will lock down the money in your account and upon proof of the return will give the buyer their money back.

 

I've had 2 cases recently, one as a buyer and one as a seller, where paypal refunded the cost on their own dime. A record I sold got a corner ding and the buyer complained. He demanded I send him a mailing label so he could return the record for a full refund. I told him he was welcome to ship the record back and I would refund the cost of the record (there were other options I offered him as well - partial refund, etc.). Paypal ended up refunding him without charging me.

 

As a buyer I had a record come from Europe mangled. An entire corner of the mailer was torn off when it got to me. Told paypal if I sent it back any refund I got would only cover my shipping back. They refunded me without charging the seller.

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Thank you for your post, but I respectfully disagree.  I believe emphatically  that the customer can end up with the money and the LP.

 

Perhaps your different experiences were Paypal transactions that went through EBay first?  The policies for Ebay / Paypal transactions are different.

 

It also matters HOW the customer funded his Paypal payment.  If he used a credit card, and he is complaining through a credit card chargeback, I think he actually has greater leverage over the seller than I suggested earlier.

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My interaction with the buyer when they first messaged me very displeased was a pretty honest response. That I didn't see any scratch and the sleeve seemed fine to me when I sent it and that I sent it just like I sent everyone else' LP with no complaints. Buyer got an attitude, no response for 25+ days then this 

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It would be super exciting/dramatic if this was part of some elaborate swindle on behalf of the buyer and every potential decision you make could swing the outcome drastically...but, in reality, it's pretty simple. Just approve the return, accept the package back, and move on. PayPal lets customers file a return request for something like 180 days, so, although it is kind of dumb/annoying, you could receive a valid return request 5.9 months after the customer receives the record.

In the super rare event that something insane happens, like they send you an old Adidas sneaker instead of your record, just pick up the phone and call PayPal and describe the buffoonery that has taken place. When really weird stuff happens, it might take 3-10 phone calls before you reach someone who speaks your language and understands your situation fully but they offer unlimited appeals, so just keep calling even if they initially are unhelpful or decide against you in the case.

What I've seen often which is really unhelpful is that people will have the case closed against them and immediately give up and spend the rest of their life complaining about PayPal online...but all they needed to do was spend 1/4th of that energy in calling PayPal until they correctly adjust the decision. I hope that helps!

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