NCAA Football Discussion

[SBarry]

Stay classy Bama fans...

[kamalatapes]

Stay classy Bama fans...

Wow not cool at all. If this were in California cops/security would've came crashing down on that woman regardless of her sex and cuffed her while she would be faced down in a puddle of beer with her arms behind her back. I'm glad the there were Bama fans trying to restrain her a bit.

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

Did she fight the OU guy for saying the white stripes suck? Because not having audio of what caused her to jump rows of people makes it hard to have any perspective on what is going on

[catalinacaper]

Can't believe no one commented on this last night. What a game.

[kamalatapes]

Can't believe no one commented on this last night. What a game.

 

You didn't comment on it haha. No but yes best 4th quarter I've seen in a long time! I was out and about watching snippets of the game.

[Guest]

Was hoping for FSU to blow it (which they almost did), just because it would have been funny. Good for them though...

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

didnt watch, was too busy watching other TV shows. 

[catalinacaper]

You didn't comment on it haha. No but yes best 4th quarter I've seen in a long time! I was out and about watching snippets of the game.

I was too busy pulling my hair out for 3 quarters hahaha

[lockatade]

It was an amazing game and I was very fortunate to be there. Go Noles!

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

this is HUGE, and AWESOME! 

 

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/10363430/outside-lines-northwestern-wildcats-football-players-trying-join-labor-union

 

For the first time in the history of college sports, athletes are asking to be represented by a labor union, taking formal steps on Tuesday to begin the process of being recognized as employees, ESPN's "Outside The Lines" has learned.

Ramogi Huma, president of the National College Players Association, filed a petition in Chicago on behalf of football players at Northwestern University, submitting the form at the regional office of the National Labor Relations Board.

Backed by the United Steelworkers union, Huma also filed union cards signed by an undisclosed number of Northwestern players with the NLRB -- the federal statutory body that recognizes groups that seek collective bargaining rights.

"This is about finally giving college athletes a seat at the table," said Huma, a former UCLA linebacker, who created the NCPA as an advocacy group in 2001. "Athletes deserve an equal voice when it comes to their physical, academic and financial protections."

Huma told "Outside The Lines" that the move to unionize players at Northwestern started with quarterback Kain Colter, who reached out to him last spring and asked for help in giving athletes representation in their effort to improve the conditions under which they play NCAA sports. Colter became a leading voice in regular NCPA-organized conference calls among players from around the country.

"The action we're taking isn't because of any mistreatment by Northwestern," Colter said. "We love Northwestern. The school is just playing by the rules of their governing body, the NCAA. We're interested in trying to help all players -- at USC, Stanford, Oklahoma State, everywhere. It's about protecting them and future generations to come.

"Right now the NCAA is like a dictatorship. No one represents us in negotiations. The only way things are going to change is if players have a union."

The NFLPA's Board of Player Representatives passed a resolution supporting the players' union movement, Pro Football Talk has reported: "Resolved, that the NFLPA pledges its support to the National Collegiate Players Association (NCPA) and its pursuit of basic rights and protections for future NFLPA members."

In a Sept. 21 game against Maine, Colter wore a black wristband with the hashtag "#APU" -- All Players United -- prominently scrawled in white marker as part of a quiet protest gesture. He was joined that day by about 10 teammates as well as players at Georgia and Georgia Tech. In all, players on seven teams in the five largest conferences displayed the #APU symbol, according to the NCPA.

Huma said he met with Northwestern players over the weekend on campus in Evanston, Ill., and took the next step in creating a collective voice for players. He said Colter introduced him to groups of players that Colter had talked with over the past couple of months about their interest in taking the unprecedented step of asking for union representation.

To have the NLRB consider a petition to be unionized, at least 30 percent of the members of a group serving an employer must sign union cards.

Huma declined to say how many Northwestern players signed cards other than the number was an "overwhelming majority." To get to 30 percent, at least 26 of the 85 scholarship players had to sign.

Colter told "Outside The Lines" on Tuesday morning that he met with Wildcats coach Pat Fitzgerald to share the news that the union cards had just been filed.

"It couldn't have gone any better," Colter said. "Obviously, he has employers he needs to think about. But he's understanding of what we did, that this is something we feel passionate about, and he wants to make the athletes' experience the best it can be.

"The team is excited. Their biggest worry was how the head coach was going to take it. It was a big relief for them to hear from me how he reacted."

The formal entity that would represent the players, if certified by the NLRB, is called the College Athletes Players Association. It was created by Huma, Colter and Luke Bonner, a former UMass basketball player and brother of NBA player Matt Bonner, with technical support from the United Steelworkers, who will not receive union dues from players, said Huma, who is registered as the CAPA's president.

"When Ramogi first reached out to us years ago, we were like an overwhelming part of the population in that we figured athletes were lucky because they're getting an education," United Steelworkers president Leo Gerard said Tuesday. "But then we looked into it and realized it's a myth. Many don't get a true education and their scholarships aren't guaranteed."

The group has called a news conference at 11:30 a.m. CT Tuesday at the Hyatt Regency Hotel in downtown Chicago, where Kolter, Huma, Gerard and Tim Waters, the union's national political director as well as the NCPA's liaison within the union, will speak.

"The NCAA is a train wreck waiting to happen," Waters said. "What brought them to this moment is they couldn't control their greed. They put all this money in the system."

Spokesmen for Northwestern, the Big Ten Conference and NCAA were not immediately available for comment.

Huma said the goals of the CAPA are the same as that of the NCPA. The group has pressed for better concussion and other medical protections, and for scholarships to cover the full cost of attendance.

Having already successfully advocated for the creation of multiyear scholarships, it now would like those scholarships to be guaranteed even if a player is no longer able to continue for injury or medical reasons. The group has also called for a trust fund that players could tap into after their NCAA eligibility expires to finish schooling or be rewarded for finishing schooling.

The NCPA has lobbied state legislatures, Congress and the NCAA on these issues over the years, and earlier this month hired airplanes to fly protest banners during the BCS title game at the Rose Bowl and at the NCAA Convention in San Diego.

"It's become clear that relying on NCAA policymakers won't work, that they are never going to protect college athletes, and you can see that with their actions over the past decade," Huma said. "Look at their position on concussions. They say they have no legal obligation to protect players."

The CAPA's initial goals do not include a call for schools to pay salaries, Huma said. However, he declined to rule out the possibility that the CAPA would seek that type of compensation in the future and said he knows the public will begin speculating about scenarios in which players would receive a cut of the $5.15 billion in revenues currently generated by athletic departments in the five power conferences.

Those universities will be flush with new cash in the coming years due to the advent of the College Football Playoff, which starts next year, and the signing of lucrative, long-term media contracts that will more than double in value by 2020, according to the SportsBusiness Journal.

At the outset, only Division I FBS football players and men's basketball players -- the athletes at the center of the commercial enterprise -- will be eligible to join the CAPA because they are best situated to make a case to be treated as employees, Huma said. Over time, the CAPA may expand its scope to include other sports.

He said only scholarship players are eligible for inclusion, as they are already being compensated by schools in the form of a "grant-in-aid" that is capped at the level of tuition, room and board, books and fees.

By filing the union cards with the NLRB, the CAPA triggers a process that could take years to resolve. The first group that will consider the request will be the regional board of the NLRB, whose decision can be appealed to the national board.

Northwestern is expected to oppose the action on the grounds athletes are not employees, and the NCAA, the trade association representing the athletic interests of universities, will likely enter the fray as well.

Gerard said he would "not be surprised" if it ends up in the federal court system.

Athletes playing for university-based teams are not currently considered employees by any legal body. They haven't been since 1953, when the Colorado Supreme Court upheld a determination by the state Industrial Commission that a football player at the University of Denver was an "employee" within the context of the Colorado workers' compensation statute.

As a result, the university was responsible to provide workers' compensation for his football injuries. The NCAA responded by coining the term "student-athlete" and mandating its use by universities. Use of that term, and other efforts to enforce the idea that athletes cannot also be employees, ramped up as the NCAA a few years later introduced athletic scholarships, a form of compensation for services provided.

The distinction has held, though since then the courts have come to recognize other students who provide services to universities as employees. Graduate students who teach, for instance, are recognized as employees of universities under laws in many states. Academics such as Richard and Amy McCormick of Michigan State have argued that athletes are employees under the common law definition of the National Labor Relations Act.

The NLRA governs only private enterprises and does not apply to public universities. As a private university, Northwestern falls under its jurisdiction. Gerard said that based on labor law, any decision in favor of the players against Northwestern would apply to all private universities across the country in the FBS. It would not apply to public universities, which are governed by state laws.
 

[paranoidantroyd]

Ever since major conference reallignment started speculation has been that the NCAA would dissolve and players would begin attaining benefits. College football, the cash cow it is, should pay its players. No question.

[batman]

Ever since major conference reallignment started speculation has been that the NCAA would dissolve and players would begin attaining benefits. College football, the cash cow it is, should pay its players. No question.

i'm still not sold on this. 

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

the the players unionize the NCAA will not disolve.  also, this movement for unionization applies to private schools only

[3arl]

Ever since major conference reallignment started speculation has been that the NCAA would dissolve and players would begin attaining benefits. College football, the cash cow it is, should pay its players. No question.

 

They're paid pretty well if you ask me

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

first theyre not "paid" anything, they've given an opportunity to not have to pay a portion or all of their tuition.  second, the main issue is that scholarships are not garunteed and are being lost due to injuries, not everyone who goes to college on a scholarship is doing so to make the NFL, most are doing it for the opportunity to get an education they otherwise could not afford.  the union would want to ensure that any scholarships given are held throughout the life of the students enrollment at that school, which I think is a win for everyone.  my brother-in-law had a scholarship to Marshall, got injured in the first couple months of school (severe concussion) and lost his scholarship and had to enroll at a much lesser school in WV because thats all he could afford.  he played football at the smaller schools, and had Marshall not recinded his scholarship, he could have continued to play for the Herd, too.  but he couldn't afford to stay at Marshall for the spring semester just to show them he could still play in May. 

[3arl]

first theyre not "paid" anything, they've given an opportunity to not have to pay a portion or all of their tuition.  second, the main issue is that scholarships are not garunteed and are being lost due to injuries, not everyone who goes to college on a scholarship is doing so to make the NFL, most are doing it for the opportunity to get an education they otherwise could not afford.  the union would want to ensure that any scholarships given are held throughout the life of the students enrollment at that school, which I think is a win for everyone.  my brother-in-law had a scholarship to Marshall, got injured in the first couple months of school (severe concussion) and lost his scholarship and had to enroll at a much lesser school in WV because thats all he could afford.  he played football at the smaller schools, and had Marshall not recinded his scholarship, he could have continued to play for the Herd, too.  but he couldn't afford to stay at Marshall for the spring semester just to show them he could still play in May. 

 

I'm not disagreeing about scholarship reform. I'm all for that and maybe a union would help. The problem with a union in college football would be that all of the members are gone in 2-4 years.

 

But college football players are still given free tuition, free housing, free tutoring, free apparel, free travel around the country, priority registration, and other perks all while being able to play their favorite sport on a national level. That sounds like a sweet deal to me. The thought of them getting paid on top of that is offensive to someone currently paying off loads of student loans.

[paranoidantroyd]

But college football players are still given free tuition, free housing, free tutoring, free apparel, free travel around the country, priority registration, and other perks all while being able to play their favorite sport on a national level. That sounds like a sweet deal to me. The thought of them getting paid on top of that is offensive to someone currently paying off loads of student loans.

Assuming that you weren't playing football, generating millions of dollars for your university, there is a major difference in students and student athletes.

Most people use the "free tuition, free this, free that" bit without knowing the rigors of being a part of a big time college football program. Long cramped bus trips with oversized people and getting $120/month per diem doesn't exactly sound as posh as many make it out to be. Ya know, along with that whole revenue generation thingy.

[3arl]

Assuming that you weren't playing football, generating millions of dollars for your university, there is a major difference in students and student athletes.

Most people use the "free tuition, free this, free that" bit without knowing the rigors of being a part of a big time college football program. Long cramped bus trips with oversized people and getting $120/month per diem doesn't exactly sound as posh as many make it out to be. Ya know, along with that whole revenue generation thingy.

 

Yeah this still doesn't make me feel bad for them.

 

And guess what, when a student pays tuition for college, that's generating revenue for the university.

[laralaurent]

I'm not disagreeing about scholarship reform. I'm all for that and maybe a union would help. The problem with a union in college football would be that all of the members are gone in 2-4 years.

 

But college football players are still given free tuition, free housing, free tutoring, free apparel, free travel around the country, priority registration, and other perks all while being able to play their favorite sport on a national level. That sounds like a sweet deal to me. The thought of them getting paid on top of that is offensive to someone currently paying off loads of student loans.

 

I think some sort of weekly stipend would be appropriate - just have to find that reasonable amount when you do weigh all these benefits.  

 

Some of the perks you mentioned are part of the nature of being chosen to play collegiate sports, mainly the travel and apparel benefits.  But RA's at my undergrad received a weekly stipend and free room and board, and they just supervised dorms.  No reason why these kids can't receive some sort of weekly stipend (250/week?) for their part as "employees."

[paranoidantroyd]

Yeah this still doesn't make me feel bad for them.

And guess what, when a student pays tuition for college, that's generating revenue for the university.

It's not a matter of having sympathy for college football players, simply an economic disservice.

Major programs are earning $80-120M/year from football alone. Do you know how many new education buildings, parking decks, student rec centers and other sports facilities are built solely with benefits reaped on football revenue? I don't wanna correlate it to a slave/master situation but...

[3arl]

It's not a matter of having sympathy for college football players, simply an economic disservice.

Major programs are earning $80-120M/year from football alone. Do you know how many new education buildings, parking decks, student rec centers and other sports facilities are built solely with benefits reaped on football revenue? I don't wanna correlate it to a slave/master situation but...

 

Please don't. That would be wrong for a multitude of reasons.

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

the union is not going to try to get the players paid

[GMay]

I think some sort of weekly stipend would be appropriate - just have to find that reasonable amount when you do weigh all these benefits.  

 

I'm still on the fence with this. While I do agree a weekly stipend is appropriate, I guarantee after the first couple of years, there will be players making a fuss about how it's still not enough and then will revert back to whining about how the university is still reaping the rewards from the hard work of the athletes. 

 

If they can come across an agreement on a stipend that they agree can't be changed for 10-15 years, I would be ok with it.

[catalinacaper]

I'm still on the fence with this. While I do agree a weekly stipend is appropriate, I guarantee after the first couple of years, there will be players making a fuss about how it's still not enough and then will revert back to whining about how the university is still reaping the rewards from the hard work of the athletes.

If they can come across an agreement on a stipend that they agree can't be changed for 10-15 years, I would be ok with it.

With that sort of length of terms it better increase with inflation... Because in 15 years my current college stipend probably won't even pay my rent.

[Family Friendly Rap God]

28 days until kickoff. What do you guys think about the preseason poll?