Third Eye Blind - S/T

[kurtz]

To all the idiots on the board waiving the "it's unethical" banner: These bands all had lawyers when they signed their contracts with the labels. They knew they were signing away the rights to their music, and if they didn't agree with it and went ahead anyway to make a quick buck then they had no artistic integrity to begin with. In an ideal world, when bands sign distribution deals its to get their music into the hands of as many fans as possible. Even if that's 15 years down the line when a small indie label wants to bust it's ass to create an awesome rerelease of your album. If anything as a band with any kind of artistic integrity they should be thrilled to have a team working on this that's going to pay such close attention to detail to make sure the packaging/sound quality is perfect. Because I guarantee a major label isn't going to put the kind of time and effort into a rerelease as a small label run by fans who are so good at what they do and want a really awesome final product. This is a simple case of a money grab by the band. Which, don't get me wrong, is totally their prerogative, but don't bash ETR for doing the right thing and backing off when the band stepped in. And you can't blame them for being disappointed after working so hard for so long and then losing a release they are such fans of. I mean shit, I'm disappointed this isn't coming out on ETR. I know it would've been awesome, and I know whatever Stephen Jenkins' shitty publishing company comes up with wont be half as good.

Any decent human being should care more about the band and the band's wishes over a major label contract. That is the problem with ETR. He treats everything like a major label would rather than an independent label. He only releases what he knows would sell, cares only about getting the contract, not the band's consent, has huge markups on his releases.

Then he promotes this shit on a board that, at least used to be, about independent music (and drinks craft beer). A label that embodies these business practices deserves to be called out.

It's sad that people stick up for this label because they are "big fans" and just want the vinyl.

[enjoytheride]

Any decent human being should care more about the band and the band's wishes over a major label contract. That is the problem with ETR. He treats everything like a major label would rather than an independent label. He only releases what he knows would sell, cares only about getting the contract, not the band's consent, has huge markups on his releases.

Then he promotes this shit on a board that, at least used to be, about independent music (and drinks craft beer). A label that embodies these business practices deserves to be called out.

It's sad that people stick up for this label because they are "big fans" and just want the vinyl.

Your just pulling bullshit info and rumors together to prove you point which almost none are valid. I barely even drink, let alone have ever posted anything about beer on this board or any other(I think your confusing me with Virgil)

I have put out a bunch of releases which I knew wouldn't particularly sell quick purely because i am a fan of the band/album and know others are also, even if i know the albums wont sell out or sell quickly. I have released 3 albums by my personal friends in the last 18+ months alone(lights resolve, theyve shot flanigan and native trash) not to mention the HRVRD album which i funded myself and had no idea if there was any real demand for a vinyl pressing. I am also in the middle of another equal vision release which I know is not going to sell quickly but it one of my and patricks personal favorite albums and jumped at the chance to release it even though they will likely sit in my garage for a year or two.

Huge Markups? You do realize licensing something from a major label and/or established indie can be expensive and for the majors, we actually buy them at wholesale more or less. Just like hot topic and SRC so as you can imagine it is quite pricey and we are not really making nearly as much per unit as you may think. Anyone on this board correct me if im wrong but i assume most rather pay $18-$25 for a high quality repress opposed to $100+ on ebay for an original with usually lower sound and packaging quality.

AND for the 5th time now, WARNER BROS TOLD ME THAT THEY SPOKE TO THE BAND/MANAGEMENT AND WAS GIVEN THEIR APPROVAL before any contract was signed or any announcement made. I tried to get in touch with the band direct before hand but there is no contact info listed on any of the bands social networks or website so the word of their label or former label was all I had.

AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, ONCE THE BAND REACHED OUT AND TOLD US THEY WERENT TOLD ABOUT THIS BY ANYONE AT WARNER AND WERENT HAPPY ABOUT IT...WE BACKED OUT, JUST LIKE WITH ALL THE OTHER RELEASES ARTISTS HAD A PROBLEM WITH(NFG,MIDTOWN,3EB).

You do realize legally i could have gone forward with all 3 of those, I was granted approval and contracts were in hand yet according to you that's an irrelevant fact

For our latest release which is something corporate- leaving through the window. I have spent 10 months on this and have been dealing direct with the singer/band. They approved both the artwork proof's and test pressings so dont go and tell me i dont go out of my way to get in touch with the artists, you have no idea what I do or dont do. Most of my time is spent trying to get in touch with the right people(be it label or band depending on the project) but as we are trying to put out larger and more established artists, it proves to be more difficult.

I have put out 20+ releases as of now and you are focusing on the second one(rxb) which was the only one with a major problem. Again, all the other bands who had any sort of issue that we could not resolve, we then backed out of the pressing other than rxb who knew about the pressing for 6 months before it happened. I never go a response from management and their guitarist told me he would talk to the band and get back to me(which he never did). They thought I was asking for the rights from them to press it supposedly because they only skimmed my 3 emails, not that I already licensed it and was asking them to be involved. They realized that i already got the rights and this was happening once it was posted on ap.net that pre order were going to go up in 72 hours(this was after the test presses were already approved and production was almost finished)

All of this being said "any decent human being"? If you think im a shitty person then fine with me but since all you have done in the past few days was troll on this thread to bust my balls and prove a point to yourself, I think your a shitty person also. This company is supposed to help the vinyl community and get people albums which they want to enjoy on the format. Be it a high quality repress or pressing for the first time. Also if you havent noticed, almost no one else on this board agree's with you. The fact that you had no intention of ever buying this album just proves that your trolling in here to prove a point which clearly isnt translating well for you.

[amnstypls]

Your just pulling bullshit info and rumors together to prove you point which almost none is valid. I barely even drink, let alone have ever posted anything about beer on this board or any other(I think your confusing me with Virgil)

I have put out a bunch of releases which I knew wouldn't particularly sell quick purely because i am a fan of the band/album and know others are also, even if i know the albums wont sell out or sell quickly. I have released 3 albums by my personal friends in the last 18+ months alone(lights resolve, theyve shot flanigan and native trash) not to mention the HRVRD album which i funded myself and had no idea if there was any real demand for a vinyl pressing. I am also in the middle of another equal vision release which I know is not going to sell quickly but it one of my and patricks personal favorite albums and jumped at the chance to release it even though they will likely sit in my garage for a year or two.

Huge Markups? You do realize licensing something from a major label and/or established indie can be expensive and for the majors, we actually buy them at wholesale more or less. Just like hot topic and SRC so as you can imagine it is quite pricey and we are not really making nearly as much per unit as you may think. Anyone on this board correct me if im wrong but i assume most rather pay $18-$25 for a high quality repress opposed to $100+ on ebay for an original with usually lower sound and packaging quality.

AND for the 5th time now, WARNER BROS TOLD ME THAT THEY SPOKE TO THE BAND/MANAGEMENT AND WAS GIVEN THEIR APPROVAL before any contract was signed or any announcement made. I tried to get in touch with the band direct before hand but there is no contact info listed on any of the bands social networks or website so the word of their label or former label was all I had.

AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, ONCE THE BAND REACHED OUT AND TOLD US THEY WERENT TOLD ABOUT THIS BY ANYONE AT WARNER AND WERENT HAPPY ABOUT IT...WE BACKED OUT, JUST LIKE WITH ALL THE OTHER RELEASES ARTISTS HAD A PROBLEM WITH(NFG,MIDTOWN,3EB).

You do realize legally i could have gone forward with all 3 of those, I was granted approval and contracts were signed yet according to you that's an irrelevant fact

For our latest release which is something corporate- leaving through the window. I have spent 10 months on this and have been dealing direct with the singer/band. They approved both the artwork proof's and test pressings so dont go and tell me i dont go out of my way to get in touch with the artists, you have no idea what I do or dont do. Most of my time is spent trying to get in touch with the right people(be it label or band depending on the project) but as we are trying to put out larger and more established artists, it proves to be more difficult.

I have put out 20+ releases as of now and you are focusing on the second one(rxb) which was the only one with a major problem. Again, all the other bands who had any sort of issue that we could not resolve, we then backed out of the pressing other than rxb who knew about the pressing for 6 months before it happened. I never go a response from management and their guitarist told me he would talk to the band and get back to me(which he never did). They thought I was asking for the rights from them to press it supposedly because they only skimmed my 3 emails, not that I already licensed it and was asking them to be involved. They realized that i already got the rights and this was happening once it was posted on ap.net that pre order were going to go up in 72 hours(this was after the test presses were already approved and production was almost finished)

All of this being said "any decent person"? If you think im a shitty person then fine with me but since all you have done in the past few days was troll on this thread to bust my balls and prove a point to yourself, I think your a shitty person also. This company is supposed to help the vinyl community and get people albums which they want to enjoy on the format. Be it a high quality repress or pressing for the first time. Also if you havent noticed, almost no one else on this board agree's with you. The fact that you had no intention of ever buying this album just proves that your trolling in here to prove a point which clearly isnt translating well for you.

dude.... stop wasting your time trying to reason with these people. you'd have more luck with a brick wall. unless you enjoy the ride...

[atticus]

Any decent human being should care more about the band and the band's wishes over a major label contract. That is the problem with ETR. He treats everything like a major label would rather than an independent label. He only releases what he knows would sell, cares only about getting the contract, not the band's consent, has huge markups on his releases.

Then he promotes this shit on a board that, at least used to be, about independent music (and drinks craft beer). A label that embodies these business practices deserves to be called out.

It's sad that people stick up for this label because they are "big fans" and just want the vinyl.

I don't understand why this is still even an argument. ETR didn't do it without the band's consent. They were told by WB that they had the band's consent and when the band stepped in and that turned out to be a lie ETR scrapped the release. As I said before, if a) you have put so much work into something and it's something you're a big fan of, you're entitled to a bit of disappointment.

As far as only releasing stuff that will sell, what i can tell from messaging back and forth with Ross a few times is that he seems like a true fan of the stuff he presses. You can't hate him for having similar taste to a lot of people on this board and releasing stuff that hasn't ever been pressed or is way out of print. The cost of his releases are so high because of the production value and licensing fees he incurs with every one of these big releases. Also, record labels aren't charities, at the end of the day if you produce a quality product that people want to buy, it isn't a crime to make money off of the work you have done.

As far as promoting on this board, as a business person, if you're trying to sell your product, and that product is a vinyl record, and there is a fairly popular vinyl record forum with a section dedicated to information on new vinyl releases, that's the place you want to promote your product.

[sjb2k1]

ross i had to stop reading at this "am also in the middle of another equal vision release which I know is not going to sell quickly"

because tell me what it is dammit pleaseeeee

edit: <3

[nivek87]

seconded.

[atticus]

and ross beat me to the punch. lol.

[AlexH.]

You know what I am reading: There are a lot of people on this board who have never needed significant funding for an artistic undertaking and have never had to negotiate a contract. Further, they have probably never felt the pressure of needing to find continued funding to pay people's salaries, people who depend on you to survive in a harsh business world.

Quit guessing and judging. Some of what I've read here comes from a place of complete ignorance and if that's not the cause then it's complete stupidity.

What does this have to do with anything? No one is saying he isn't a businessman/business, man

[jerseydave77]

Nothing to do with Ross my man. It's about the guessing on 3eb decisions in their original contract.

[searos]

A wise man once said "Agree to Disagree"

[rochambo]

I wish this thread would jump off that ledge my friend.

Third Eye Blind isn't even a band worth this much drama.

[mr. sincere]

A wise man once said "Agree to Disagree"

He clearly wasn't a record collector.

[thousandjulys]

it's clear you love what you do and put a lot of heart and soul into doing right.

the negativity around this place astounds me...not much of a "community" at all

[patrickemmons]

Any decent human being should care more about the band and the band's wishes over a major label contract. That is the problem with ETR. He treats everything like a major label would rather than an independent label. He only releases what he knows would sell, cares only about getting the contract, not the band's consent, has huge markups on his releases.

Then he promotes this shit on a board that, at least used to be, about independent music (and drinks craft beer). A label that embodies these business practices deserves to be called out.

It's sad that people stick up for this label because they are "big fans" and just want the vinyl.

I'm done arguing, but I do want to make it very clear that it's nearly impossible to get Ross to drink anything except water

[atticus]

wait- is there something wrong with craft beer?

[sharkticon]

Depends on if you go on a craft beer tour or not.

[atticus]

Depends on if you go on a craft beer tour or not.

I don't get it..

[bear801]

I wish this thread would jump off that ledge my friend.

Third Eye Blind isn't even a band worth this much drama.

yeah i'm kind of puzzled. If there's a Spin Doctors repress next year is it going to turn out like this too?

[Vinyl Fury]

I feel the need to also point out that this is all really, actually none of OUR business. we are privy to this information, not entitled.

[dreamover]

I feel the need to also point out that this is all really, actually none of OUR business. we are privy to this information, not entitled.

just want to point out, this label randomly gives out information that leads people to have the opinions they have.

[enjoytheride]

I feel the need to also point out that this is all really, actually none of OUR business. we are privy to this information, not entitled.

purely because i want to set the record straight and not have people spreading false rumors. The last thing i want is to develop a bad reputation and be compared to so many others who have failed or got in over their head doing this(namely Rj and Virgil, and this guy just confused me with virgil). I am doing my best to do right by everyone from the bands to the labels to the fans and it clearly is hard to juggle and get everyone on the same page sometimes.

[jhulud]

In the words of Poison the Well: "The opinionated are so opinionated."

[dreamover]

purely because i want to set the record straight and not have people spreading false rumors. The last thing i want is to develop a bad reputation and be compared to so many others who have failed or got in over their head doing this(namely Rj and Virgil, and this guy just confused me with virgil). I am doing my best to do right by everyone from the bands to the labels to the fans and it clearly is hard to juggle and get everyone on the same page sometimes.

my best advice is to not announce anything until it is in production. at minimal attention, i've noticed you announce or tease several releases that to my understanding aren't happening. i know they've all hit bumps in the road along the way, and you thought they were happening, but that's happened to me too. Those releases that have hit bumps have never been announced by me, and no one gets disappointed. It just looks unprofessional and will give you're brand a bad rep fast. Many labels and even bands talk about ETR like it's the laughing stock of the "vinyl industry" because of all these things. Perhaps your eyes are bigger than your stomach. Most of us know what a pain in the ass it is to work with huge labels or labels with less than ethical practices (cough cough drive thru). You have to work with whoever owns the music. There's a few labels out there that totally fuck bands and you can almost guarantee if you work with these labels, the band is going to see you as the enemy along with them. I wouldn't touch those labels with a ten foot pole

[seamoney]

Any decent human being should care more about the band and the band's wishes over a major label contract. That is the problem with ETR. He treats everything like a major label would rather than an independent label. He only releases what he knows would sell, cares only about getting the contract, not the band's consent, has huge markups on his releases.

Then he promotes this shit on a board that, at least used to be, about independent music (and drinks craft beer). A label that embodies these business practices deserves to be called out.

It's sad that people stick up for this label because they are "big fans" and just want the vinyl.

I know that others have already pointed it out, but you're being a total asshole and everything you're arguing is straight up false.

[Vinyl Fury]

purely because i want to set the record straight and not have people spreading false rumors. The last thing i want is to develop a bad reputation and be compared to so many others who have failed or got in over their head doing this(namely Rj and Virgil, and this guy just confused me with virgil). I am doing my best to do right by everyone from the bands to the labels to the fans and it clearly is hard to juggle and get everyone on the same page sometimes.

Clearly! That was my point, you didn't have to come on here and say a damn thing to anyone, which shows anyone on the other side of the fence that their points fall short. It's not like anyone here deserves the ins and outs of how a release comes together or doesn't. I'm on your side, Ross!