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topher26

Tool Vinyl BUYING GUIDE (Original/Boots, etc.)

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On 12/2/2012 at 9:39 PM, topher26 said:

Yeah, yeah, I know there's tons of these threads on here, but bear with me. Discogs, and even toolvinyl.com have been disappointingly scarce with some of the details. Because I'm insane, and have no life, I have accumulated this knowledge, and felt like putting it up here.

STUDIO ALBUMS:

Opiate: 3 pressings. All official, no boots.
- 1st pressing was released in 1996. Printed inner sleeve, BLACK center labels. "Parental Advisory" sticker on jacket. "Tool - Opiate" on spine. Worth $50-$70. http://www.discogs.com/viewimages?release=468462

- 2nd pressing was released in 1999. Generic inner sleeve, white center label. Smaller "Parental Advisory" sticker on jacket. Worth $15-$20

- 3rd pressing was released in 2006. Like the 2nd pressing, generic inner sleeve, white label. "Parental Advisory" printed on the jacket, no sticker. Somewhat blurry, off colored artwork. Everywhere for under $10. http://www.discogs.com/viewimages?release=4201393

 

Undertow: 3 pressings, all official.
- 1st pressing was released in 1996. Printed inner sleeves, "x-ray" labels. "Parental Advisory" sticker on shrink wrap. Worth $35-$45 http://www.discogs.com/viewimages?release=763651
- 2nd pressing was released in 1999. Generic inners, plain white labels, "PA" sticker. Worth $25-$30

- 3rd pressing was released in 2006. Follows the same pattern as the Opiate re-presses. Generic inners, white labels, "PA" printed, not stickered. Everywhere for under $20. http://www.discogs.com/viewimages?release=1157598
- There's also the original 1993 promo w/out "Digustipated" on gray or clear vinyl. Gray is worth $100ish, clear is more like $150. http://www.discogs.com/viewimages?release=1275319

Ænima: 2 official pressings, and an unknown # of bootlegs.
- The 2 official pressings are essentially identical, gatefold jacket, printed inners, black vinyl, ornate grayish center-label. On eBay, they range anywhere from $150 to $400.
- It seems there's a huge number of bootlegs bouncing around, but from what I've seen, there might be only 2 (maybe 3?) unofficial pressings, just in a wide range of colors.

#1: Gatefold jacket, plain white sleeves, only one insert, plain black center labels w/ only a serial number printed on them. I've seen transparent yellow and transparent green a lot (plenty of talk about them on this forum), but even black, clear blue, clear red, and orange. The jacket itself is very flimsy, and rough. Haven't seen one on the auction sites as frequently anymore, bootleg #2 is far more common now.

#2: Gatefold jacket (much sturdier), plain white sleeves, two inserts copying the original inner sleeves, and even the original ornate label artwork. Nicely weighted vinyl on marbled yellow, transparent orange, marbled gray, transparent gold, and some with one of each. Sound quality is nice, maybe not as good as an OP, but usually sells for less than $60.

Salival: Bootleg.
- Never put out on vinyl by the band, but whoever did, did an excellent job. (which might explain why so many people think it's official) Supposedly "limited to 350 copies". Cool foil-bag serves as an outer packaging type-deal. Colored vinyl, usually gray & clear. Great sound quality. I used to see 'em a lot for $50-$60, but now hard to come by on eBay for under $100.

Lateralus: 1 official pressings, a few bootlegs too.
- The real one is unmistakable, because of the holographic gatefold and the 180g double picture discs. $35 online or in-store.
- There's a blue 12" promo circulating since the release that looks official at first but sounds like trash. .
- There's a 2xLP on marbled pink/red, that is clearly fake because the track listing mimics the CD, which was re-ordered for the official release.
- And a new boot I've seen has the "eye rings" on it, like the official release (they're positioned differently, so it doesn't look similar), and a photograph of a human eye on the back with the CD track listing sort-of super imposed over it. Labels are each made to look like a miniature version of the picture discs. Sound quality is reportedly below average.

10,000 Days: Bootleg.
- This one has some potential; artwork is well made, but printed on a cheaper cardboard. Heavy blue and/or red vinyl, small amount on green, (confirmed) that sounds good but as several people have pointed out, has 2 seconds of silence between tracks, even if they're supposed to fade into each other. This one's sort of a draw, but I don't think Tool are going to press a real one anytime soon. $45 online, sometimes in-store.

SINGLES/PROMOS:

Prison Sex: 1 single, 1 promo.
- UK 12" on gray vinyl. 45rpm, but I read somewhere that copies play 33 1/3 (confirmed)
- UK 12" Promo on standard black vinyl. 2 tracks, black label, black die-cut sleeve.

Sober: 3 promos.
- UK Sober E.P. 12" promo. Black label, black die-cut sleeve. Includes 8x10 glossy band photo w/ press release.
- UK 12" promo. Black label, black die-cut sleeve. Side B is "Intolerance (Live)" from Lollapalooza '93.
- UK 12" picture disc. Promo. Clear plastic sleeve. (I'm assuming ?)

Selections from Ænima: Promo/picture disc.
- European 12" pic disc. Comes in printed promotional jacket. Never sold for less than $700-$800. "Cherubrium" artwork on one side, "Tool - Ænima" on the other.

Stinkfist: Promo/picture disc.
- 10" picture disc given to anyone who bought a copy of Ænima from Best Buy in 1996. "Medicine Twins" artwork on both sides. Housed in clear plastic sleeve.

Cesaro Summability: Promo/picture disc.
- 12" picture disc, limited to 5000 copies. Comes with a press release to promote  Housed in clear plastic sleeve.

Lateralus: Promo/picture disc.
- 12" picture disc, limited to 500 copies. (confirm?) Contains 6 songs from Lateralus. Housed in Clear plastic sleeve.

LIVE BOOTLEGS:

 

Lollapalooza 1993:

- 12" on many colors. I've seen Pink, Purple, Blue, and Grey. Sleeve is blank white with a long sticker on the front; although I have seen at least 1 with a black sleeve. Silver labels, sound is okay. Don't spend more than $15 here.

 

MMXII:

- Double picture disc. Gatefold sleeve, vinyl is supposedly pretty thick. The recording is from a concert in Charlotte, NC on 02/04/12. I don't own this, so I can't say anything about sound quality, but it looks pretty awesome.
 

Live In Newcastle:

- Colored vinyl, just yellow so far. This is brand new, I don't know anything about it.

 

 

WORTHLESS BOOTLEGS (Just Don't Buy Them):

 

Silver Tongue:

- Green colored vinyl. Demos from the 72826 cassette on side A, covers on side B. (Although I don't recall Tool ever covering Sublime.) Pretty much a pointless purchase.

 

Parabol:

- Colored vinyl. There's red, blue, black, white, brown, and grey. This has pretty much the exact same side A as Silver Tongue, except Sober is on here. Neat. Side B is also similar, but adds No Quarter from Salival, and that Pink Floyd cover that Tool totally did. Remember that?

 

Tainted Love:

- Blue or red colored vinyl. This one's mostly Maynard collaborations. In fact the rest of the band is only credited on the last 2 tracks. The final track is the demo version of Sober. Why this exists, I have no idea. I would imagine, like the 2 releases above, that it sounds like it was cut with a screwdriver.

 

 

Hope this is helpful! :)

 

 

Will update as needed.

 

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1 hour ago, MicLima said:

Not sure why that was quoted, but I'm kinda mad I didn't get my email notification until after I checked the thread...lol.

 

I wondered the exact same thing when I got the notification to approve the post being a n00b account. Will closely monitor for possible spam.

 

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On 8/11/2017 at 0:09 PM, mcpherson123 said:

Wow. I really hope that is real. I also really hope that Lateralus is remastered in proper track order. I also hope that NONE of these are fucking picture discs. Can't wait to see how these come out. 

 

 

I also really hope that got a vinyl cutting genius like Golden or Ludwig on this as well.

Ludwig doesn't cut vinyl and hasn't in ages, he masters and then his digital files will be send to someone to cut lacquers.

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On 5/9/2017 at 10:25 PM, VinylMario said:

So did anyone else hear or see any rumors about Tool's possible reissues? I'm dying to know if it's true...

I'm cautiously optimistic about the Tool reissues. From the sounds of things they aren't well underway, and Adam Jones has been taking thoughts from lots of people at SHTV including myself and seems to be really noting the information/recommendations. Lots of recommendations for 5.1 which would be aces, but he's a vinyl fan and he's heard a lot of feedback on how to do vinyl properly so hopefully they'll be involved and ensure the remasters are treated with care and not just "180g audiophile whoo hooo yay" marketing BS.
 

He has liked a lot of the posts supplying insightful information...I recommended using a mastering house that can cut and master in an all analogue chain and suggested: i) Bernie Grundman Mastering (either Bernie or Chris Bellman would be fine) ii) AcousTech / Cohearent Audio (Kevin Gray or Steve Hoffman with Kevin Gray) and iii) Sterling Sound (Ryan K. Smith who took over from George Marino and now masters in George's old room, Ryan was his protege)

I would easily buy both AAA 2LP vinyl release for stereo and Blu-ray for 5.1 of any of the Tool albums...cost is no barrier when it comes to these works of art.

 

Edited by dobyblue

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30 minutes ago, dobyblue said:

I'm cautiously optimistic about the Tool reissues. From the sounds of things they aren't well underway, and Adam Jones has been taking thoughts from lots of people at SHTV including myself and seems to be really noting the information/recommendations. Lots of recommendations for 5.1 which would be aces, but he's a vinyl fan and he's heard a lot of feedback on how to do vinyl properly so hopefully they'll be involved and ensure the remasters are treated with care and not just "180g audiophile whoo hooo yay" marketing BS.
 

He has liked a lot of the posts supplying insightful information...I recommended using a mastering house that can cut and master in an all analogue chain and suggested: i) Bernie Grundman Mastering (either Bernie or Chris Bellman would be fine) ii) AcousTech Mastering (Kevin Gray or Steve Hoffman with Kevin Gray) and iii) Sterling Sound (Ryan K. Smith who took over from George Marino and now masters in George's old room, Ryan was his protege)

I would easily buy both AAA 2LP vinyl release for stereo and Blu-ray for 5.1 of any of the Tool albums...cost is no barrier when it comes to these works of art.

 

+1

couldn't of put it any better

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1 hour ago, dobyblue said:

I'm cautiously optimistic about the Tool reissues. From the sounds of things they aren't well underway, and Adam Jones has been taking thoughts from lots of people at SHTV including myself and seems to be really noting the information/recommendations. Lots of recommendations for 5.1 which would be aces, but he's a vinyl fan and he's heard a lot of feedback on how to do vinyl properly so hopefully they'll be involved and ensure the remasters are treated with care and not just "180g audiophile whoo hooo yay" marketing BS.
 

He has liked a lot of the posts supplying insightful information...I recommended using a mastering house that can cut and master in an all analogue chain and suggested: i) Bernie Grundman Mastering (either Bernie or Chris Bellman would be fine) ii) AcousTech Mastering (Kevin Gray or Steve Hoffman with Kevin Gray) and iii) Sterling Sound (Ryan K. Smith who took over from George Marino and now masters in George's old room, Ryan was his protege)

I would easily buy both AAA 2LP vinyl release for stereo and Blu-ray for 5.1 of any of the Tool albums...cost is no barrier when it comes to these works of art.

 

Good man. Good thinking!

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2 hours ago, dobyblue said:

I'm cautiously optimistic about the Tool reissues. From the sounds of things they aren't well underway, and Adam Jones has been taking thoughts from lots of people at SHTV including myself and seems to be really noting the information/recommendations. Lots of recommendations for 5.1 which would be aces, but he's a vinyl fan and he's heard a lot of feedback on how to do vinyl properly so hopefully they'll be involved and ensure the remasters are treated with care and not just "180g audiophile whoo hooo yay" marketing BS.
 

He has liked a lot of the posts supplying insightful information...I recommended using a mastering house that can cut and master in an all analogue chain and suggested: i) Bernie Grundman Mastering (either Bernie or Chris Bellman would be fine) ii) AcousTech / Cohearent Audio (Kevin Gray or Steve Hoffman with Kevin Gray) and iii) Sterling Sound (Ryan K. Smith who took over from George Marino and now masters in George's old room, Ryan was his protege)

I would easily buy both AAA 2LP vinyl release for stereo and Blu-ray for 5.1 of any of the Tool albums...cost is no barrier when it comes to these works of art.

 

Fuckin A. My man! They deserve the best possible treatment. I've had my finger on the trigger for the Lateralus but I can't fathom buying pic discs. Don't know where or why they even bothered to "just" do pic discs anyway...

Everyone one of their albums need a special treatment. Including Opiate and The Gaping Lotus Experience. And hopefully they don't pass Undertow. Just because they're already readily available doesn't mean they don't need attention...

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6 hours ago, dobyblue said:

I'm cautiously optimistic about the Tool reissues. From the sounds of things they aren't well underway, and Adam Jones has been taking thoughts from lots of people at SHTV including myself and seems to be really noting the information/recommendations. Lots of recommendations for 5.1 which would be aces, but he's a vinyl fan and he's heard a lot of feedback on how to do vinyl properly so hopefully they'll be involved and ensure the remasters are treated with care and not just "180g audiophile whoo hooo yay" marketing BS.
 

He has liked a lot of the posts supplying insightful information...I recommended using a mastering house that can cut and master in an all analogue chain and suggested: i) Bernie Grundman Mastering (either Bernie or Chris Bellman would be fine) ii) AcousTech / Cohearent Audio (Kevin Gray or Steve Hoffman with Kevin Gray) and iii) Sterling Sound (Ryan K. Smith who took over from George Marino and now masters in George's old room, Ryan was his protege)

I would easily buy both AAA 2LP vinyl release for stereo and Blu-ray for 5.1 of any of the Tool albums...cost is no barrier when it comes to these works of art.

 

You guys do know that TOOL has used pro tools for mixing and mastering from tape. I doubt we are getting a full AAA chain

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13 minutes ago, youspinmeround said:

You guys do know that TOOL has used pro tools for mixing and mastering from tape. I doubt we are getting a full AAA chain

Yeah this is what I was thinking too. I always read they recorded to tape but there were digital elements from there. For anyone concerned about AAA vinyl go listen to the Volto LP. 

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I believe Undertow and Opiate are recorded and mixed in full AA domain. I though I saw some literature about Aenima being AAA but past that there has been some dumping into Pro Tools for mixing though Joe Baressi did take the Pro Tools mixes and mix finally mix to 1/2" tape. If I'm remembering correctly. 

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12 hours ago, mcpherson123 said:

I believe Undertow and Opiate are recorded and mixed in full AA domain. I though I saw some literature about Aenima being AAA but past that there has been some dumping into Pro Tools for mixing though Joe Baressi did take the Pro Tools mixes and mix finally mix to 1/2" tape. If I'm remembering correctly. 

I think you're correct, I'm pretty sure Ron and Sylvia mixed Undertow on a Neve 8038 console. Even 10,000 Days appears to have been kept all analogue right until the final mastering stage when Bob Ludwig used a Pyramix DAW which in 2005/2006 would have been capable of DXD. Final master was 24/96, but does the stereo master mix (ie - before the mastering) exist on tape? According to mixonline's interview with Barresi and Ludwig the multitrack format was analogue tape but also dumped to ProTools "to preserve it". It also states the album was mixed by Barresi on an SSL G+ console which is an analogue mixing console. So was the ProTools dump just for archival purposes and the mix was all analogue right up to the mastering stage?

I do like what Bob said about it: "If any record deserves to be heard in surround sound, it's this one. There's so much tone painting and so much color. It would just be a thrill to hear it in surround sound. And with 96k, 24-bit masters, we're ready for any kind of high-resolution digital projects.”

I'll see if Mr. L can shed some light on the final process, he's usually very responsive to courteous e-mails. Have also asked Adam for some insight on the earlier albums. It does sounds like Opiate, Undertow and AEnima were all mixed on Neve consoles.

Edited by dobyblue

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Confirmed that AEnima was recorded and mixed entirely analogue (mixed to 1/2" tape) whereas Lateralus multis were transferred to ProTools and then mixed to 1/2" tape. So the possibility for a new AAA release of AEnima is certainly there. :)

In order to do Lateralus AAA they'd need to remix the album, I don't see that happening - but if they cut it directly from the unmastered 1/2" stereo mix then we could still get a bloody brilliant fully dynamic release of Lateralus as well.

Fingers crossed that magic will occur.

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2 hours ago, dobyblue said:

Confirmed that AEnima was recorded and mixed entirely analogue (mixed to 1/2" tape) whereas Lateralus multis were transferred to ProTools and then mixed to 1/2" tape. So the possibility for a new AAA release of AEnima is certainly there. :)

In order to do Lateralus AAA they'd need to remix the album, I don't see that happening - but if they cut it directly from the unmastered 1/2" stereo mix then we could still get a bloody brilliant fully dynamic release of Lateralus as well.

Fingers crossed that magic will occur.

Nice! I had a feeling about Aenima. I remember reading the Bottrill article about the full Lateralus process from Mix magazine where they outline all that Pro Tools bouncing and then the stereo mix. I would think it would be pretty awesome to do a full-on remix from 2" to 1/2" with only analog outboard gear however, incredibly labor intensive.

 

I would totally take that on if they handed it to me though.

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