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16 hours ago, allenh said:

There's a George Harrison one that looks as bad if not worse.

 

You've got options, you could strip it down and spray paint it or even get some iron on wood veneer. They're not hard to take apart and there aren't many bits in reality so I'd buy it and have it as a spring project, a nice deep Mahogany would look rather fetching with the acrylic platter I feel

Definitely going to make a project out of it if I pick it up, I'll post the results here when I'm done. I think staining the wood would really look jazzy depending on how it looks under the finish, I'm thinking a cherry or espresso color would be awesome.  Just gotta talk my boss down a little further in price and I'll probably be bringing it home tomorrrow. 

Edited by yanquiuxo
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7 hours ago, yanquiuxo said:

Definitely going to make a project out of it if I pick it up, I'll post the results here when I'm done. I think staining the wood would really look jazzy depending on how it looks under the finish, I'm thinking a cherry or espresso color would be awesome.  Just gotta talk my boss down a little further in price and I'll probably be bringing it home tomorrrow. 

I expect its just MDF under the finish so I doubt there's a lot to stain

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Well I talked my boss down on it so it's coming home with me today :D 

 

Thanks for the advice, I'm going to partner with my buddy who is a lot more handy than myself and pick out a cool looking veneer

 

ill be taking pictures throughout the process and keep you guys posted 

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32764367271_332b5d1da8_b.jpg

In a stunnng turn of events, my wife (who is typically indifferent to my records/tables/gear) LOVES this table. Beatles is one of her favorite bands and she is damn near heartbroken to know that I want to shed this thing's skin. I may have to hold off on the re-paint of the table just yet.  Is this not one of the ugliest designs though? 

 

Anyway, I set up just to make sure there are no functionality problems and dear lord the IGD on this ortofon red is absolutely horrific. Worse than I remember.  I can't replace it with something (anything) else quick enough.  I don't understand how people get these carts to sound good as the three I have owned all have the same problem terrible sibilance and bad tracking. I tried the pre set up configuration, no good. Adjusted it ever so slightly with the supplied protractor, even worse. Used my own (both baerwald) and it's mildly better.   I'll let it do its thing, for now. 

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18 hours ago, yanquiuxo said:

32764367271_332b5d1da8_b.jpg

In a stunnng turn of events, my wife (who is typically indifferent to my records/tables/gear) LOVES this table. Beatles is one of her favorite bands and she is damn near heartbroken to know that I want to shed this thing's skin. I may have to hold off on the re-paint of the table just yet.  Is this not one of the ugliest designs though? 

 

Anyway, I set up just to make sure there are no functionality problems and dear lord the IGD on this ortofon red is absolutely horrific. Worse than I remember.  I can't replace it with something (anything) else quick enough.  I don't understand how people get these carts to sound good as the three I have owned all have the same problem terrible sibilance and bad tracking. I tried the pre set up configuration, no good. Adjusted it ever so slightly with the supplied protractor, even worse. Used my own (both baerwald) and it's mildly better.   I'll let it do its thing, for now. 

If it's in good shape, then that's a great buy. Especially with the EOL (or better) pricing. I hated the old OM5e that used to come on the Debuts. As you said, I immediately noticed the IGD, and upgraded as soon as I could. I thought I read that the stylus profile on the 2m red is the same as the OM5e, so what you are hearing doesn't surprise me.

 

My theory is that people are so used to listening to distortion with their music, due to low quality equipment, and/or poor production and mastering, that they don't notice.

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22 hours ago, kannibal said:

My theory is that people are so used to listening to distortion with their music, due to low quality equipment, and/or poor production and mastering, that they don't notice.

Sadly I have to agree the quality some people are prepared to accept makes me shake my head in disbelief sometimes, that said I'm not an Ortofon fan but they have been at this a very long time so I'd be surprised if they made a cartridge that bad, Ortofons are more than a little bright but maybe the geometry of the Project is not exactly good and making a poor cartridge worse.

It might line up on the protractor but if the overhang they quote and allow is wrong for the effective arm length then you will get IGD in spades and if the VTA is wrong then that will add to the sibilance that is usually there with an Ortofon cartridge.

Set it up by ear using trial and error for the inner grooves if you can and I bet you'll be able to get it usable. You won't get rid of the sibilance because you're stuck with the VTA but you should be able to sort the IGD.

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On 2/14/2017 at 1:08 AM, yanquiuxo said:

32764367271_332b5d1da8_b.jpg

In a stunnng turn of events, my wife (who is typically indifferent to my records/tables/gear) LOVES this table. Beatles is one of her favorite bands and she is damn near heartbroken to know that I want to shed this thing's skin. I may have to hold off on the re-paint of the table just yet.  Is this not one of the ugliest designs though? 

 

Anyway, I set up just to make sure there are no functionality problems and dear lord the IGD on this ortofon red is absolutely horrific. Worse than I remember.  I can't replace it with something (anything) else quick enough.  I don't understand how people get these carts to sound good as the three I have owned all have the same problem terrible sibilance and bad tracking. I tried the pre set up configuration, no good. Adjusted it ever so slightly with the supplied protractor, even worse. Used my own (both baerwald) and it's mildly better.   I'll let it do its thing, for now. 

If we put it like this:

It is not easy for any cartridge to perform if you give it the next worsts conditions.

Different alignment curves (mathematics formulas) are performing better or worse on different parts of the arc/radius. The baerwald is one of the worst performing = high TDH. 

The radius 97mm to 67mm segment where Löfgren "B" is considerably lower then UNI-DIN and Löfgren "A" (Baerwald) and especially Stevenson.
Read more at http://www.analogplanet.com/content/uni-din-versus-löfgren-b-just-clarify#f5HMZJ5TldbLSeIL.99

 

So if I where you I would go here and follow the instructions:

http://jaguaraudiodesign.com/blog/1066/turntable-setup-free-accurate-protractor/

 

And for free you will be able to print a custom protractor that is just for your table!

And use Löfgren B. Maybe Löfgren where not happy with his own calculations and the second way around he improved the mathematics formula.. :)

God luck!

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10 hours ago, VinylPlayer said:

If we put it like this:

It is not easy for any cartridge to perform if you give it the next worsts conditions.

Different alignment curves (mathematics formulas) are performing better or worse on different parts of the arc/radius. The baerwald is one of the worst performing = high TDH. 

The radius 97mm to 67mm segment where Löfgren "B" is considerably lower then UNI-DIN and Löfgren "A" (Baerwald) and especially Stevenson.
Read more at http://www.analogplanet.com/content/uni-din-versus-löfgren-b-just-clarify#f5HMZJ5TldbLSeIL.99

 

So if I where you I would go here and follow the instructions:

http://jaguaraudiodesign.com/blog/1066/turntable-setup-free-accurate-protractor/

 

And for free you will be able to print a custom protractor that is just for your table!

And use Löfgren B. Maybe Löfgren where not happy with his own calculations and the second way around he improved the mathematics formula.. :)

God luck!

I appreciate your insight, but I'm not going to work that hard for a $100 cartridge that I am not that fond of to begin with.  For not a lot more I can get a cartridge that is worth the proper set up process that has overall more desirable tonal characteristics for me. 

 

My comment was more to the fact hat these tables are advertised as pre-set up with this specific cartridge when (in my multiple experiences, anyway) they are not.  The fact that a mass of people are happy with the stock set up simply confounds me, is all. 

Edited by yanquiuxo
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Just picked my table up from the shop after getting the AT mounted. Sounds a million times better. I still hear random "womp womp" noises in some silent parts, but it is on the same record so must be something with that record (never noticed it with the Grado though).

 

Only charged me $50 this time, so not bad.

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Bought this at the weekend.

For those that might well not have seen one it's a Manticore Mantra with a Manticore Magician tonearm.

I reckon this is probably one of the last made and it comes with every upgrade and bell and whistle they offered like an Aerolam sub chassis link a Pink Triangle, their very expensive main bearing upgrade, Manticore MB6i power supply and motor, the Magician tonearm with Van Den Hul internal and external wiring and all the arm bearing upgrades.

 

I also have the very first table they produces which came in kit form and was called the Input Design Kitdeck so this bookends the Manticore production.

 

They a not a table you see outside of the UK very much but are very much in the UK superdeck leagues and especially in this guise, I paid enough for it but this thing cost someone some serious money in the mid 90's and suffice to say this ones a keeper.

DSCF0114_zpsrhrrzauf.jpg

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15 minutes ago, Thomas³ said:

I love the veneer on that table.

 

Made a $150 mistake on Sunday. Snapped my 8MZ stylus in half :(. It was stuck in the cart, so I gave it an extra tug and my thumb slipped right into the cantilever, snapping it in half.

Ouch!!!

I sort of did that with a Sumiko Blue Point Special (the open body one) so you're not alone, caught my sleeve on it and that was that.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

After selling my old Marantz 2252B (which I was using mainly as a phono preamp at this point) and filing my taxes, I decided to upgrade a few components. Went ahead and bought a Gram Slee Special Edition 2 phono preamp, new Audioquest Golden Gate Interconnects, and an Audio-Technica AT150Sa cartridge (formally Ortofon 2M Red).  

 

Current complete line:

Audio-Technica AT150Sa -> Thorens TD 295 mark 3 -> Gram Slee Special Edition 2 -> Audioquest Golden Gate Interconnects -> Marantz SR5005 -> 2 Axiom M60 v2

Edited by monk0nuggets
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