Budget System

[wire]

Hi there,im going for my frist system so i want to tell me your opinions about some equipment.

For turntable i'll go for project debut carbon for sure but speakers and receiver is pain in the ass.

FIrst of all im into hardcore punk,crust,screamo a little garage etc so i want agrressive sound but no too much because i will listen for many hours. combination of bright equipment with smooth i guess.

ok i have in my mind Rotel RA-10 with Wharfedale Diamond 12.1..

Tell more amps speakers etc with the sound i want plz.

Budget is like 900-1000 euro.

sorry for the bad english,cheers

[slinch]

The Debut Carbon is a best buy, so for the table your set. The standard version (with the Ortofon OM10 cart) is around 300 eur, the premium version (with the Ortofon 2M Red) is 345 eur and the Esprit version (2M Red and acrylic platter) is 400 eur. I strongly suggest the Esprit version, it's hands down the best price/performance package.

 

That leaves around 600 eur for the rest.

 

The Rotel RA 10 is a great pick, the only problem is it doesn't have a phono stage built in, so you'd need a separate phono preamp. A really good alternative is a Marantz PM6004 (around 340 eur). Might be a bit more laid back, but very musical and it does have a pretty good phono stage.

 

The Wharfedale 121 (300 eur pair) are superb, but the previous 10.1 model (260 eur pair) is also worth considering. I haven't compared them side by side, but the 10.1 are a bit brighter sounding, which shouldn't be a problem paired with the Marantz amp, but it would be best if you could find a place to test them for yourself to see what type of sound suits you best. But for this price range, I wouldn't even look at anything else other than the two Wharfedale models.

 

Then again there's always the possibility of buying used, so if you're willing to consider that you can get a sound at least a class better.

[wire]

thanks for the reply. Im afraid to buy used equipment. Also i found there is a phono in the ra-10,a very good one as i read in reviews.

I worried because some people say they found ra-10 clinical or neutral and i dont want that with wharfedales because i will lost some bright side need for rock music in general. If rotel is bright will go very well with wharfedale. Marantz is too warm and polite i think..

What about Pioneer A30 and Denon PMA 520/720? whats the sound signature of these?

Edit: I forgot to ask about the acrylic platter,is any difference in the sound?

[slinch]

Yeah you're right, I was reading something about Nad amps while posting and the lack of the phono stage was stuck in my head for some reason...

Buying used can be a risk for sure, though you can minimize that risk by doing some research and buy from a reputable seller or a hifi store.

The pioneer and denon entry level integrateds aren't really worth considering in my opinion, they perform well under what you can get for the price. The onkyo 9050 would be a worthwhile contender though. But it's really impossible to talk about "sound signature" here, every component has it's specific strengths and drawbacks and the only way to get an idea of how a particular combination might perform at your place is to go and listen to as much as you can in a specialised store. The experience will be extremely valuable as you'll get to connect your own perception to the sound described in magazines and online. So not only will you actually hear for yourself what you like best, it'll also be easier for you to know what to expect from particular equipment in the future.

[wire]

You're very helpful!

so,i will search for the Onkyo. You are right about hear myself in store but i dont really have a hifi shop in my town..

Here in Greece i cant even find Rotel ra10 right now. lol
anyway another think im curious about is the placement of the turntable,there is a forum where some guys said something about IKEA stuff thats very good for isolation etc. sorry about so many noob questions but its my first system after all and im very excited!

[slinch]

Well the IKEA furniture is not the best, but it is good enough, especially for the price. It's simple, the dimensions are big enough, it's sturdy and it's cheap. If you google "ikea lack hifi" you'll get tons of results with various combinations. I use the lack tables as well and I'm pretty happy with the setup.

[wire]

nice,Slinch thanks for the info!

if anyone else have any of the amps we listed please tell your opinion as well..

[JumpingBean]

I listen to much of the same music as you, and I love my Yamaha A-S500.  Very aggressive sound that leans forward rather than sitting still.

[wire]

I have this in my mind at first when i start researching but some reveiws and people says thats too agrresive and harsh.

I dont want that because its much easier to get tired afther some music.. what speakers are u using?

Also whats the quality of the phono A-S500? anyway thanx

[ajxd]

As a Rotel user, their phono pre-amps are REALLY good. Always impressed with them.

[timbrh2001]

I listen to much of the same music as you, and I love my Yamaha A-S500.  Very aggressive sound that leans forward rather than sitting still.

 

I can vouch for this as well.  Got mine open box for around $300

[JumpingBean]

The yamaha a-s500 is NOT harsh.  It actually warms up quite a bit once you get past the break in period.

I use it to run a pair of Pioneer HPM-100s which are notoriously bright speakers, and the combo actually sounds very pleasant and musical.

Just because something is "bright" does not make it "harsh".  Bad tweeters and shitty amps make things harsh.

[wire]

Back after some research on Rega Brio R,its more pricey and "minimal" but phono stage is excellent as they say in many reviews.
Also is very small (good for me because there is lack of space).

What hifi says is good match with wharfedale 12.1 but i dont know about the "sound"..

If anyone have this please tell your opinion.

[JumpingBean]

Imho speakers are the one thing that makes way more sense to buy used.

Speakers generally do not develop the problems that turntables and amps do.  They only thing that usually needs to be done to old speakers is a recap and possibly a refoaming if the woofer surrounds are foam.

Get yourself a pair of Polk Monitor 7s or 10s, or possibly some original advents.  Great speakers you can get in the 200-300 dollar range that compete with modern speakers in the 1000+ range.

[wire]

Finally im going for the wharfedales diamond 121 and yamaha as500! Also i m going to "combine" two ikea lack for hi fi rack.
hmm there is a actually a bad comment about the same system in what hifi.. :/

"Igot one of these and a pair of Diamond 121, biwired with audioquest cable. It sounded horrible. The Yamaha lacks detail and upper-bass disappears. Lower bass is all one note. There's plenty of it, but it's just not musical. Rhythmically, I honestly think it's the worst amp I've ever heard. I played the first Stone Roses CD and I hardly recognised it, I played some Spiritualized, Joni Mitchell, Kristen Hirsch, The Heavy, Massive Attack, Leftfield and some Brian Eno to test. Each of them sounded like a roomful of musicians playing different songs from each other. I found it impossible to pick an instrument and follow it."
 

[allenh]

You need to go and listen to stuff, other peoples tastes and requirements can be way off from yours.

 

You can use the reviews and opinions to cut the list down but it's your money and you have to listen to it.

 

The break in point is very valid though, all hifi kit needs to burn in and the sound can change quite a bit from out of the box to run in. So you need to ask how ling something has been used for in a shop or try and find some people locally who have the kit you want to try, most hifi people are more than happy to show off their systems.

 

I've seen too many tired speakers to suggest 2nd hand. Yes a recap does wonders but only for speakers that haven't been worked hard. When drivers are over worked the voice coils and suspension suffer to the point where failure isn't far away. Also there are some nasty tricks people do to tired speakers to give them enough life to get them sold.

 

With the type of music you are listening to you need fast reacting speakers that have a very wide range otherwise the sound will be indistinct.

 

There have been plenty of good suggestions amp wise above but my own choice would be the Rotel or Yamaha as these should be the most musical, that does of course depend what speakers they are driving.

[allenh]

Just seen that you mentioned the Rega.

 

This will have the best phono stage by far but it does have a very long run in time, it will be very smooth, warm and musical but I'm not sure it will be what you are looking for, I don't think it will give enough bite. Go and give it a listen though if you can as it is proper hifi so don't discount it out of hand as of all the suggestions it will be the one you would be happy to listen to for longest.

[wire]

thanx for the replys. Rega is out of budget,there are none here anyway..
There is another prob. the impedance.. as-500 is 8 ohms and diamond 121 is 6hms..
I have read that the amp is going to be dead before his hour
tell me about this..
 

[allenh]

pity about the Rega.

 

6ohm speakers on an 8 ohm output is fine. 4 ohm speakers on an 8 ohm output is a problem but only if you run at very high volumes for a long time as the amp have to work much harder to drive the 4 ohm load

[wire]

ok finally i got two IKEA lack and combine together as a rack,ikea site says max load is 25 is it true because i want to put Yamaha as 500 and debut carbon.. so i think alltogether is 20 kg..

[slinch]

It's definitely not the sturdiest of tables, but you should be fine. You only have to make sure that you don't go way over 25kg one one surface. Currently I have four LACKs stacked and the total weight they carry is around 38kg. At one point I had a 25kg amplifier on a single LACK table (for about two years) and everything was fine.

[wire]

thanks Slinch. 25 kg in a single lack for two years? so,lack are good

[slinch]

Yeah, this is how I had it set up back then:

 

 

That Marantz on the left weighs 26kg.

[allenh]

Nice looking kit Slinch, I have always been a fan of those Dali speakers, are you using the Marantz as a power amp or something? Or just swapping between amps?

[slinch]

Thanks! At that time I was playing with bi-amping, because that Marantz is stunning in the lower registers, but pretty underwhelming at anything above 1kHz. Currently it's being serviced (it's been there for almost a year now, because it's a total pain to find the issue. As soon as the guy gets it working, a new problem arises the next day). I'll most likely just sell it when I get it back, as the resale value far surpasses the sonic abilities (the most recent one sold for around $1,5k, and the preamp section was dead in that one).

 

My current setup is here: http://boards.vinylcollective.com/topic/17682-post-your-set-up-thread/?p=1534489

(although the floorstanders are now in another room where I'm building a HT set)