Mutemath S/T does anyone know if this ever going to be re-released?

[highfives]

5 minutes ago, lindsaymusic said:

Hey everyone - since clearly the price tag is an issue for most fans here, I wanted to break down the situation for you all.

 

Manufacturing 180gram vinyl is expensive, it's more expensive when you have a double LP.  It continues to get more expensive when you spend nearly a year negotiating getting the rights to press this vinyl from the master owners (Warner Bros).  That means legal fees, significant override royalties and beyond that will leave the band with very little net on this release.  Not to mention the percentages the merch store takes off the top.  So, I apologize if this somehow offends you, but we're doing what we can to not take this re-issue at a loss financially.  Our "Changes" LP is all over Ebay because there are people who buy $20 LP's and turn around and sell them for $250 (as you have all seen).  We're trying to deter that in this situation.

 

 

This will be all over eBay for $250 no matter if you price it at $75 or $25.

 

Companies, like Mondo, negotiate licensing rights for tons of shit and offer 180 gram  double LPs for $35.  We're talking HUGE properties, from Warner Bros, that have royalties and guarantees.  So don't be offended when people are apprehensive about the price tag.

 

 

[Fowty Dollaz]

1 minute ago, lindsaymusic said:

 

Are you familiar with override royalties?  The royalties you have to continue to pay your former major label on everything you make for the decades following your departure?

God, I hate the music industry. 

I hope that this does sell out. Maybe then WB will keep it pressed so you guys don't have to. 

Really glad to have an og copy after hearing all this.

I hope the band doesn't lose money on this. Best of luck ! 

[toomanyrecords]

13 minutes ago, lindsaymusic said:

Hey everyone - since clearly the price tag is an issue for most fans here, I wanted to break down the situation for you all.

 

Manufacturing 180gram vinyl is expensive, it's more expensive when you have a double LP.  It continues to get more expensive when you spend nearly a year negotiating getting the rights to press this vinyl from the master owners (Warner Bros).  That means legal fees, significant override royalties and beyond that will leave the band with very little net on this release.  Not to mention the percentages the merch store takes off the top.  So, I apologize if this somehow offends you, but we're doing what we can to not take this re-issue at a loss financially.  Our "Changes" LP is all over Ebay because there are people who buy $20 LP's and turn around and sell them for $250 (as you have all seen).  We're trying to deter that in this situation.

 

 

 

You mean all those Changes LPs that have sold for ~$5 +/- in store value? 

You're speaking to vinyl people here who understand more than your average person. There are a TON of releases that are 180 gram and 2xLP that cost 1/4th of the price. 

[copelandkid]

5 minutes ago, highfives said:

This will be all over eBay for $250 no matter if you price it at $75 or $25.

 

Companies, like Mondo, negotiate licensing rights for tons of shit and offer 180 gram  double LPs for $35.  We're talking HUGE properties, from Warner Bros, that have royalties and guarantees.  So don't be offended when people are apprehensive about the price tag.

 

 

if the reality that Mondo et al manage to license and press records at $35 AND Lindsay's claim that the band would lose money without what is effectively a 2x+ upcharge on that number are both true, it could well mean that MM's team got fleeced at the negotiating table! i dunno.

Edited November 30, 2016 by copelandkid

[axotyl]

1,000 copies @ $75 each is $75,000
lets say it costs $10k to press this, give or take a grand or two. that means ~65k in licensing, lawyers, whatever etc. to "not lose money".  seems crazy to me.

[highfives]

Just now, copelandkid said:

if the reality that Mondo et al manage to license and press records at $35 AND Lindsay's claim that the band would lose money without what is effectively a 2x+ upcharge on that number are both true, it could well mean that MM's team got fleeced at the negotiating table! i dunno.

You could be correct.  We don't know what they owe WB from their previous contract.  However, we shouldn't be the ones who fit the bill for it.  

 

They're pressing 1,000 of these?  Why not 2,000 and charge half the price?  We witnessed the Fight Club soundtrack move 4,000 pieces in less than 24 hours and we're to believe they are sketchy about moving 2,000 of these on the 10 year anniversary?

[highfives]

If they were really concerned about flippers, they'd press the fuck out of this like Circa Survive has been doing with their 10 year anniversary albums.  You can find those for ~$15 now when people were (and still are) flipping OG presses for well over $100.

[copelandkid]

4 minutes ago, highfives said:

You could be correct.  We don't know what they owe WB from their previous contract.  However, we shouldn't be the ones who fit the bill for it.  

 

They're pressing 1,000 of these?  Why not 2,000 and charge half the price?  We witnessed the Fight Club soundtrack move 4,000 pieces in less than 24 hours and we're to believe they are sketchy about moving 2,000 of these on the 10 year anniversary?

the band currently has 270,000+ fans on facebook, allotting copies for .3% – i know vinyl isn't super popular in the grand scheme of things, but i'm sure MM could easily have moved 2-3k (3k being slightly over copies for 1% of the fanbase) at 1/3 of the current outlandish price.

Edited November 30, 2016 by copelandkid

[lindsaymusic]

19 minutes ago, highfives said:

You could be correct.  We don't know what they owe WB from their previous contract.  However, we shouldn't be the ones who fit the bill for it.  

 

They're pressing 1,000 of these?  Why not 2,000 and charge half the price?  We witnessed the Fight Club soundtrack move 4,000 pieces in less than 24 hours and we're to believe they are sketchy about moving 2,000 of these on the 10 year anniversary?

Man, this is such a bummer.  We're trying to fill a hole that Warner on it's own would not take the time to do.  Fans have been asking about this record and paying out the ass for it on Ebay for almost 10 years.  I spent nearly a year negotiating with their business affairs team to be allowed to do this.  Guess what?  There were a lot of stipulations - one being how much we had to pay them per copy ON TOP of our already insane override royalty and we were only allowed press 1,000 copies and could not distribute to retail.  This also does not take into consideration what it cost to recreate the packaging (because the original art files were lost), the legal fees we incurred to make this happen, the year of work to put it together and the split our e-commerce store will take off the top.

 

So, I think the bottom line here is that we're doing our best, trying to find ways to make happy that don't further eat into the band's pocket.  They work really hard and I'm sorry if the price tag pisses you off but this is the best way for us to move forward and that's it.  The negative feedback is really discouraging but you'll always find someone who thinks they know more/better than you.  I'm sorry to the people that think the band is trying to "gouge" fans, as that's obviously the last thing we want to do.  It would be pretty heartbreaking to us all however, to have worked this hard, and see some dude on Ebay make all the money off it.

 

 

Edited November 30, 2016 by lindsaymusic
spelling!

[jrodan]

it's fucking GOUGE you idiots. Gouge fans. Jesus @lindsaymusic and @Kanye West are fucking dense.

Edited November 30, 2016 by jrodan

[toomanyrecords]

Just now, jrodan said:

it's fucking GOUGE you idiots. Gouge fans. Jesus you and @Kanye West are fucking dense.

 

I edited my post. It was a typo. Calm your fucking titties, psycho. 

[highfives]

5 minutes ago, lindsaymusic said:

Man, this is such a bummer.  We're trying to fill a hole that Warner on it's own would not take the time to do.  Fans have been asking about this record and paying out the ass for it on Ebay for almost 10 years.  I spent nearly a year negotiating with their business affairs team to be allowed to do this.  Guess what?  There were a lot of stipulations - one being how much we had to pay them per copy ON TOP of our already insane override royalty and we were only allowed press 1,000 copies and could not distribute to retail.  This also does not take into consideration what it cost to recreate the packaging (because the original art files were lost), the legal fees we incurred to make this happen, the year of work to put it together and the split our e-commerce store will take off the top.

 

So, I think the bottom line here is that we're doing our best, trying to find ways to make happy that don't further eat into the band's pocket.  They work really hard and I'm sorry if the price tag pisses you off but this is the best way for us to move forward and that's it.  The negative feedback is really discouraging but you'll always find someone who thinks they know more/better than you.  I'm sorry to the people that think the band is trying to gauge fans, as that's obviously the last thing we want to do.  It would be pretty heartbreaking to us all however, to have worked this hard, and see some dude on Ebay make all the money off it.

 

 

I think the only thing anyone here is claiming they know more or better than you is $75, no matter what the backstory, is laughably expensive.  You guys see it as the cost of business, but we as consumers see it as exorbitant. 

 

I'm sure these will sell quickly, and hopefully you can renegotiate the new deal so you can press more/make them more affordable.  But I hope you know that people in the vinyl community are tired of paying out the ass for albums we love.  

 

And, you will most definitely see it on eBay.  It's a foregone conclusion.   (And Changes has only sold as high as $54 on eBay, not $250.  Just because someone lists it that high doesn't mean people pay it.)

[Fowty Dollaz]

1 minute ago, jrodan said:

it's fucking GOUGE you idiots. Gouge fans. Jesus @lindsaymusic and @Kanye West are fucking dense.

I get it, but relax. 

[toomanyrecords]

11 minutes ago, lindsaymusic said:

Man, this is such a bummer.  We're trying to fill a hole that Warner on it's own would not take the time to do.  Fans have been asking about this record and paying out the ass for it on Ebay for almost 10 years.  I spent nearly a year negotiating with their business affairs team to be allowed to do this.  Guess what?  There were a lot of stipulations - one being how much we had to pay them per copy ON TOP of our already insane override royalty and we were only allowed press 1,000 copies and could not distribute to retail.  This also does not take into consideration what it cost to recreate the packaging (because the original art files were lost), the legal fees we incurred to make this happen, the year of work to put it together and the split our e-commerce store will take off the top.

 

So, I think the bottom line here is that we're doing our best, trying to find ways to make happy that don't further eat into the band's pocket.  They work really hard and I'm sorry if the price tag pisses you off but this is the best way for us to move forward and that's it.  The negative feedback is really discouraging but you'll always find someone who thinks they know more/better than you.  I'm sorry to the people that think the band is trying to gauge fans, as that's obviously the last thing we want to do.  It would be pretty heartbreaking to us all however, to have worked this hard, and see some dude on Ebay make all the money off it.

 

 

 

I hear what you're saying but Mutemath isn't The Beatles. I can't even see any other reissue from any time period of collecting records that wasn't some extreme collector's edition that comes close to your price tag, which is why it's so shocking. 

[afireinside7444]

I had been hopeing for this for a long time. Too much $ and not enough pressed. Will be sold out to flippers and on ebay the same day.

[Jenevieve]

THANK YOU for going through hell for us die hard fans @lindsaymusic!!  We KNOW you are doing what you can to support the fans that have been begging years for this!  I, and most MUTEMATH fans, have been ecstatic all day since we heard this amazing news!  Most of us are more than happy to buy these beautiful packages!  There will always be ungrateful people, but screw them, and remember those of us that are thrilled and will be there when the clock strikes midnight to snatch it up!! 

Edited November 30, 2016 by Jenevieve

[toomanyrecords]

7 minutes ago, afireinside7444 said:

I had been hopeing for this for a long time. Too much $ and not enough pressed. Will be sold out to flippers and on ebay the same day.

 

Truth. This will be sold to a handful of fans who have "fuck you" money to throw around and the rest will be on eBay by the end of the week for the price the original press fetches.

This wasn't well thought out. I don't mean to be harsh, but it really wasn't. 

[AlexH.]

Mondo's already been mentioned, so I'll add that Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab also licenses titles from every major label (including platinum selling albums), does half-speed mastering by well-known engineers, and presses 180 gram vinyl at RTI with heavy gatefold jackets, and their most expensive releases (like this 45 RPM 2xLP of The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan, for example) still top out at $50, a heavy sum even considering the essential-ness of the titles they put out.

 

SRC, whom everyone here makes fun of, also licenses major label titles, masters them for vinyl, and presses them on high-quality colored vinyl. Here's the Forrest Gump soundtrack on 3xLP, featuring tracks from virtually every great American band of the movie's eras, for $45.

 

Enjoy The Ride, run by a bumbling idiot with no connections who got his start on this very message board before being laughed out for trying to pull the "little guy" card while putting out $25 Good Charlotte LPs, managed to put out a Maroon 5 2xLP for $40.

 

It may have been a mistake coming here.

Edited November 30, 2016 by AlexH.

[toomanyrecords]

1 minute ago, AlexH. said:

Mondo's already been mentioned, so I'll add that Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab also licenses titles from every major label (including platinum selling albums), does half-speed mastering by well-known engineers, and presses 180 gram vinyl at RTI with heavy gatefold jackets, and their most expensive releases (like this 45 RPM 2xLP of The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan, for example) still top out at $50, a heavy sum even considering the classic.

 

SRC, whom everyone here makes fun of, also licenses major label titles, masters them for vinyl, and presses them on high-quality colored vinyl. Here's the Forrest Gump soundtrack on 3xLP, featuring tracks from virtually every great American band of the movie's eras, for $45.

 

Enjoy The Ride, run by a bumbling idiot with no connections who got his start on this very message board before being laughed out for trying to pull the "little guy" card while putting out $25 Good Charlotte LPs, managed to put out a Maroon 5 2xLP for $40.

 

It may have been a mistake coming here.

 

This is the logic that we've all been talking about but you kindly laid it out.

Unfortunately, as mentioned, it seems to be too late for any of that logic to make a change, because of the aforementioned fate of all the records selling out to flippers regardless. What they did was just oversaturate the market with triple digit MM s/t LPs. 

[copelandkid]

27 minutes ago, Kanye West said:

 

Truth. This will be sold to a handful of fans who have "fuck you" money to throw around and the rest will be on eBay by the end of the week for the price the original press fetches.

This wasn't well thought out. I don't mean to be harsh, but it really wasn't. 

i mean, the pre-emptive allusions by MM's management to flippers  suggests they're aware this product will get flipped – they just want a bigger share of the total pie. only way to do that is to charge a higher initial price. which is ironic, because pressing 2-3k and/or charging a REASONABLE price would probably mean flipping would be less successful as more folks would've managed to afford a copy at the outset.

[copelandkid]

also the stockholm syndrome in the MM group (where the MM rep is very active) is REAL haha
now featuring open call to chime in the conversation (which is how we got Jenevieve, i believe – welcome, and don't mind us!) 
 

[highfives]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/mutemath/

 

Edit:  @copelandkid I was just reading that thread.  

 

Edited November 30, 2016 by highfives

[toomanyrecords]

7 minutes ago, copelandkid said:

also the stockholm syndrome in the MM group (where the MM rep is very active) is REAL haha
now featuring open call to chime in the conversation (which is how we got Jenevieve, i believe – welcome, and don't mind us!) 
 

 

*eye twitch*

 

That last comment referring to what I said.

Just because you HAVE money doesn't mean you should spend it like a moron. I enjoy cheesecake. Would I buy a slice for $40? No. 

[The Vool]

Haha, those Emo-kids...

[THE_James_Champ]

Heh, fucking saps. I don't care what band you are, charging that much for the repress is a full on crime.