Tom Delonge's UFO

Those are wildly irrelevant. I'm talking about a President accusing his predecessor of personally ordering wiretaps of a candidate. You brought up a bunch of other shit. I don't think we're going to agree here. I'm out.

If you noticed I was trying to stay on topic and never mentioned opinions on what prior things the US has done. Don't pretend to know someone's opinions just because they don't agree with a line of logic you hold true.

I tried.

If he's going to make those claims he needs to provide evidence, he has not. He was suspended by Fox (seems to me that Fox doesn't even find their own commentator totally credible), came back on and double downed on his claims, while still not providing any evidence. Your arguments about one governmental action equating to another I find highly flawed at a baseline level. I don't see any room for a rational conversation, if any argument is met with, "well the government does X, so you're wrong." Wanna put a wager on this? If it is found that Obama personally requested a wiretap of Trump, I'll buy you a record of your choice - up to a $25 value shipped?

No one with any credibility has come forth saying there's any evidence that happened. http://www.vox.com/world/2017/3/30/15126072/devin-nunes-source-white-house "On March 4, Trump alleged — without providing any evidence — that Obama had wiretapped Trump Tower during the campaign. “Shortly thereafter,” the Times reporters write, “Cohen-Watnick began reviewing highly classified reports detailing the intercepted communications of foreign officials.” The clear implication of this Times claim is that Cohen-Watnick was looking for anything that could vindicate Trump’s wiretap claim. About a week later, new National Security Adviser H.R. McMaster tried to get rid of Cohen-Watnick, whom the CIA reportedly didn’t trust because it saw him as hostile to them as an institution. On March 10, McMaster informed Cohen-Watnick that he would be moved to a different position in the NSC. On March 12, Trump personally intervened (reportedly at Bannon and Kushner’s prompting), overruling McMaster and keeping Cohen-Watnick in place. Sometime during all of this, Cohen-Watnick found the intelligence intercepts that mention Trump officials. What happened between that unspecified date and the night of March 21 isn’t exactly clear. Ellis, the White House lawyer who used to work for Nunes, somehow got looped in and wound up briefing Nunes when the lawmaker got to the White House grounds."

and

Jesus, still missing the point. Our government was surveilling Russians when Trump associates were making contact with them. The point is we possibly have compromised individuals at the highest level of government running things - this should be alarming to anyone regardless of political ideologies. If you want to be concerned and have a conversation about government surveillance, fine, but I don't think that applies to this thread and how it's specifically about Trump.

You certainly do fail. How can you not see the difference between a President accusing his predecessor of illegally wiretapping him, and the larger surveillance program that is known? You're being intentionally obfuscating.

Is anyone else kind of underwhelmed by this? Only listened through once, but first impressions is I like Joy, Departed way better.

I didn't see this anywhere and am curious as to what people think. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/865809794/wheel-by-miniot It seems pretty intriguing, but too rich for my blood.

Congratulations on self identifying as a fucking asshole.

The Obama administration also had struggles with the press. The idea that "they traded admiration and praise for access, secret intelligence sources, and overall whitewashing" has no grounding in reality. Maybe you can point me elsewhere, but I haven't seen anything. From the New Yorker article: "The Obama White House has hardly been immune to complaints about access and its treatment of the press. The last eight years have been marked by an escalating cat-and-mouse game between a communications staff that has constantly sought new ways to directly communicate with the public and a corps of White House reporters who see the efforts as a manipulative attempt to limit their access. Obama’s early use of Twitter and Facebook to make news was seen as controversial, as was the White House’s use of its own videographer to record the President in settings to which the press had no access. The White House’s production of “West Wing Week,” an in-house “news” show with a Pravda feel, was mocked by reporters. And Obama’s use of non-traditional venues for major interviews—“The Tonight Show,” “The Daily Show,” “Anthony Bourdain: Parts Unknown,” “Running Wild with Bear Grylls,” and ESPN—often frustrated reporters." Edit: tense of word

Really underrated album.

Impeach Trump petition: https://impeachdonaldtrumpnow.org

While the Trump administration have already done enough disturbing things. What concerns me the most is how they consistently attack facts and straight up lie. That is a cornerstone of fascism, not to mention most other things he's doing. I don't want to be an alarmist, but these things generally only lead down dark roads.

Definite AOTY contender

Obama did renounce the violence: " First of all, any, any violence directed at police officers is a reprehensible crime and needs to be prosecuted. But even rhetorically, if we paint police in broad brush without recognizing that the vast majority of police officers are doing a really good job, and are trying to protect people and do so fairly and without racial bias, if the rhetoric does not recognize that, then we’re going to lose allies in the reform cause. "

Yep, I was about 13 or 14 when this came out. Loved the soundtrack, but never saw the movie, always wanted to though.

Converge thread on VC fails me.

Signed and regular Emotion Side B are up again if you missed out - http://www.carlyraejepsenshop.com/

Kind of surprised I couldn't find a thread for this. This album is really good. http://dryjacket.merchnow.com/