Gumbo72203

oh word i don't know this one by them.  Will check out, thanks!
 
This is puzzling haha their albums are like exactly the same.  I would keep trying...   More eventually won out over Radiogaze i think, and then Everything came along and smashed them both.  I didn't immediately love it when it came out, but I view them all as fairly equal.  I do love "Everything" the most i think, they just keep getting better and better. 

I do believe "More" will surprise you on re-listens, and I often find myself feeling quite differently about albums depending on where I'm listening.  Stuff I didn't connect with in the car, I put it on at home and it's totally different. 

Just food for thought!  Blankenberge rules, I hope they get over here once someday. 

Interesting discussion. I think one thing about the whole post-rock thing is that by removing vocals from the equation, the margin for error for everything else becomes smaller. For example, the first couple of Caspian albums did almost nothing for me, even though I can't pinpoint anything wrong with them. But Tertia is pretty high on my list of favorites regardless of genre, it just grabs me and keeps me in this beautiful, murky space. The compositions just work in a way they didn't before. It's the same thing with Red Sparowes, the first one didn't move the needle for me, but I love the second one. But most stuff in this genre seems to fall just short of compensating for the lack of vocals. It's not that I'm even all that interested in singing, but the way voices serve to punctuate and make music connect to the listener, especially with any form of rock music, is a really tricky thing to replace. The last such album that convinced me to buy a physical copy was Penumbra by Barrens, which is still pretty much under the radar, but well worth checking out.
I've been listening to Mogwai on and off for decades now and finally got to see them live this year, but for me, they have mostly been more about particular songs that grab me, rather than really being able to get deeply into their albums. Special Moves and Mr. Beast have been the go-to albums for me. I had that CODY box set for a while, but regrettably sold it off. It had some great moments, especially toward the end, but as a whole it really never clicked with me, and the cover design definitely didn't help. It's just very skeletal. For most of the album I just want an extra layer, or something, particularly a stronger bass presence. I have massive respect for Mogwai and the way they've continued growing and exploring, but I'm still looking for that moment where I get fully blown away.

thanks dude.  just riding out the crud over here.  Gonna miss rehearsal tonight sadly, which hurts - we have *BIG* show Sunday doing a pre-party for Goose/Trey Anastasio Band.  So it goes sometimes.  I appreciate your thoughts - these deep discussions are very fun for me, and I haven't had a good back and forth here in a while, so thank you for your thoughtful replies. 
 

You know...  i'll jump on this tangent.  I've been back on a big Isis kick lately (I just bought all 4 Daymare  CD releases of Celestial > WR in mint/unopened condition because I'm a maniac) and I've been giving more time and attention to the Wavering Radiant bonus tracks. 

I hate... HATE to accept this fact...  but in spending a lot of time with those extra tunes, I have now come to the conclusion that their progression had dried up.  Those songs are not as good as the album tunes.  So, I think the band was right to call it quits.  Perhaps they were typical B-side quality and that a new album push would result in better songwriting results, but man...  I was pretty bummed to feel this way about Isis.  I was firmly in the camp of "This band should have never stopped and they could never write a bad song."  As an artist, I fully know how some songs just don't always land as hits sometimes.  But it made me really wonder, had their progression gone as far as it could?

And it makes me think of Mogwai, because Mogwai continues to basically ALWAYS do new shit.  And it somehow always seems fresh.  My theory as to why they are successful vs. Isis is that all of the members are onboard and bought in.  Isis were not.  Aaron Turner has gone on record saying how WR and ITAOT contain LOTS of difficult creative compromises for him.  And if you listen to where Sumac is going, I think its easy to see what side of the coin he was on as far as the clean singing/atmospherics, etc. 

Rosetta has been going through a similar progression, but that band has dried up heavily too.  I don't think they've even played live since Dunk18?  But I feel like those members are still all bought into the creative shapeshifting with Eric on board. 



Oh, and pro-tip loophole:  "Hey babe I want these records for Christmas ->"   lol (for YT and CODY)

EDIT - fuck YT is sold out.  Where do i go now?! 

EDIT 2 - it's sold out on their website, but not Bandcamp?  Amazon has them too....   do you guys have a thought?

Derek summed up my thoughts pretty well. I'll just add that I meant no malice in my comments. FWIW, I generally resort to saying I am not into something, rather than it sucks. That said, I think there is validity in calling something out for being derivative. That doesn't mean it sucks. It just means it isn't doing anything different. There is definitely some post-rock and post-metal that I enjoy that has completely taken the formula and replicated it. Hell, Russian Circles did it to themselves on their last few albums. Enjoyable? yes. Anything different? no. I also think that not all of music that seems derivative comes from a genuine place. There are definitely bands/labels that see something as trendy or profitable and jump on it. Deep Elm is a pro at that game now...
Back to Mogwai. My Father My King is amazing. It really deserves a decent pressing. The OG sounds like trash. It is not worth chasing down. I really hope to get that Rock Action material in a box set someday. That was a great era.,
Anyway, I hope you feel better soon Gumbo.

I think anyone with even vaguely admirable tastes in music experience a similar cyclical nature of music consumption.  I know I do.  I listen to too many bands and genres to just commit to one or two for months, weeks, or even days.  The burnout is too real.  As I’ve gotten older I’ve found tremendous value in being able to identify what kind of musical mood I’m in, and how to best scratch that itch.  There’s nothing quite like finding the album to throw on that will “get you your fix” of what you’re after.  Sometimes that’s riffs for days.  Sometimes it’s mathy guitar noodling.  Walls of guitar, a la shoegaze.  Minimal ambience.  Aggressive.  Acoustic.  Electronic.  Sludgy.  Etc. etc.  For me anyway, I don’t think it’s aligned with ADD so much as “hey, I have 2,000 records and there’s 365 days in a year.  Maybe it’s time to dust off [X].”  Often times I do, and I’ll find myself remarking at how good the band / genre is.  I’ll find myself grateful that I own it, and that I was fortunate enough to stumble across it in my time here on Earth.  And if I feel nothing, it’s time to sell it.
That being said, I have been “off” the post-rock cycle for a bit now.  I anticipate coming back to it, but it’s not something I’m going to force.  There’s no quicker way to feel meh about your records than forcing yourself to spin specific ones in hopes of grasping something that isn’t there in the moment.  So while the idea of throwing on some Caspian, TWDY, Mono, or EITS has no real appeal to me right now – and hasn’t really, for months – I do indeed know the value of those artists and albums.  What they meant to me, and what they probably still mean to me when I’m in an instrumental music kinda’ mood.  If that changes as times goes on, I’d reevaluate things and potentially look into selling them off… but I see no rush or pressure to do it.  As long as my shelves aren’t filling up with stuff I’m detached from, I’m happy.
I’m not totally sure what you were getting at with the implication that “we” may or may not bully post-rock bands here.  (On VC?)  I think in the past, maybe the general post-rock thread, a lot of us were quick to dismiss a lot of the dime-a-dozen crescendo-core bands that you were gushing on.  (Only because the formula had been beaten to death to most of our ears.)  If you made a PO thread for one of those bands though, I think you’d get a yawn emoji from someone, at worst.  No one is deliberating going into threads and trying to convince someone to not pre-order something.  At least, not from what I’ve seen.  (Excluding bootlegs; that’s a separate issue though.)
Not to sound like an elitist goon but as time has gone on, I feel like your tastes have began to slowly align to mine and others.  That isn’t to say I (or we) set the defining parameters for all things post-rock on VC.  Just an observation that you’re maybe becoming seasoned and jaded like everyone else – on our cyclical music journeys – and perhaps even starting to appreciate more bands that broke the usual post-rock mold from 15+ years ago.
I never assumed you loved all things shimmery / epic / “life-affirming”.  So many bands have tried - are trying - to get their bag with a slice of the genre.  But you don’t need me to tell you just how much formulaic drivel is out there.  (I say all of this as a music consumer; I have no real instrument talent and thus hesitate to call stuff derivative.  But you don’t need to be a master chef to identify a bland meal.)  Stuff like This Patch of Sky, later ITTCT, Spurv, etc. do a lot more for you than me, and that’s cool.  I don’t think anyone is out to bash you for that or interesting in changing your mind there.  I think it’s great to be very passionate and engaged about anything in life - especially music - but I also suspect that if you were the kinda’ person to just post “new Spurv made me splooge” or “man I’m really enjoying the new GIAA even if it’s not doing anything mind-blowing”, you probably wouldn’t get a single reaction.  You’ve toned it down considerably but I feel like a lot of us were just taking the piss, back when you first joined VC, because every week saw you posting about your mind being blown by artists that were drawing from a dry well.  It’s tough not to respond when someone links a certified YouTube-only post-rock band that apes Mono or EITS, while writing about life changing their sound is.  Hopefully you get that any responses of that nature were akin to “busting your balls” for the sake of VC entertainment.  These boards get super slow these days; those replies come more from a place of endearment than malice.
Onto Mogwai.
CODY is a bit of a tough nut to crack on first go, so don’t feel too disheartened.  All I can recommend, first and foremost, is that it’s a night listen.  The first third of that album is like a warm blanket.  One that gradually starts to slip off, leaving you exposed and cold in some secluded area.  And the last stretch feels like a mad dash out of there, with your heartbeat throbbing in your ears.  Even the album’s heaviest and most explosive moments take their time to pop off.  The entire LP is a practice of patience and payoff.  You’re right in saying that that structure resembles a song in and of itself.
You’re floating around with early Mogwai from the sounds of it, and that’s a great start.  Check out Ten Rapid if you get a chance.  It’s a shorter listen; a compilation of their earliest material.  Not all of it will stick with you, I don’t imagine, but it has some super important cuts.  Helicon 1, especially, taps into the traditional post-rock twinkle before smothering your ears in guitars.  To this day I think it’s maybe one of the most melancholy-drenched shoegaze songs I’ve heard; underneath the fuzzy onslaught of guitars are some chord changes that never fail to hit me right in the gut.  What a magic song.  I’m so glad they’ve kept it a part of their live arsenal over the years.
Anyway, I don’t expect everyone to read all this but I figured it’s some quality reading material for @Gumbo72203 while he’s home sick.  Feel better soon.

Yeah i figured you guys would know more about what variants/remasters/anything are the best-sounding/best-pressed.  I don't know anything about the lineage of that album, and haven't had time to dig into it since discovering i like this album haha. 

CODY is interesting....  its kind of like one long song for me.  And it hasn't totally grabbed me, but that is the way I was with Mono, EF, and Envy.  I didn't get them at first, but something made me keep coming back, and then eventually I was like "oh!"
 
Yeah, I mean i think this is pretty much it.  I'm saving something to chase.  Same with GIAA - I kind of purposefully hold of on listening to them, because I know they have a deep discography, so i want to save an adventure for down the line. 

I'm finding myself on the down-swing with post-rock recently, going back to the Grateful Dead and Pink Floyd more and more.  Which is how I am - I'm cyclical.  My dr's tell me its part of having ADD - we go ALLLLLL THE FUCK INNNNN and touch EVERYTHING and see ALL OF IT and then move on.  And like... it's a feeling, inside of me.  I'll never be able to explain it so that you guys can understand, but it just creates this "!!!!!" thing inside of me, this fire...  this drive to uncover ALL the mysteries.  Figure it ALL out.  And then when I do, it's time for something else. 

Thrill of the chase I guess?  I'm not really sure.  I just know this is how I am haha. 

As far as the decline of my post-rock listening, i think it's because there's not much new coming out that's been grabbing me hard.  I'm excited for the new EF though, and the new Glaston album.  Anything Envy and Mono release will of course be an insta-buy, but a lot of the bands I love have kind of petered out, like Spurv or ITTCT so the momentum just kind of falls away.  I think that coupled with my finishing of all the big chases (I have every variant of Solace, I have all the old Mono early CDs like Hey You and the Session 02 release, I have my Trust No One Oceanic's, etc etc) just turned the flame down.  I don't expect anyone else to understand, but it's just like treasure hunting I suppose.  And it's fun for me. 

I want to have some more treasure to find later with Mogwai, like what's happening here.  I think you guys think I love every post-rock thing that comes out haha and that's absolutely not true.  There's a lot of derivative stuff on Youtube that never gets pressed, and sure it's all okay and fine, but I don't even think like that.  What I read above is a lot of critical-minded assessments of music, and i don't even care about that.  If it doesn't grab me, I just move on - i don't sit around and make fun of it, which is what it feels like some of you guys may do here.  That just isn't fulfilling for me, I'm just looking ahead to the next chase that's going to make me feel the exclamation points inside. 


ha anyway TL;DR sorry!  Sitting home here sick with whatever bug is going around, so you guys get my thoughts

Not sure what or where or how to note this, but for the first time that I can recall, I'm not allowed to use my ad blocker on the site here.  Is that normal or a new thing?  It's definitely never asked me to turn it off for years, and it won't let me access the site now unless i do that. 

Anybody? 

I was today years old when I listened to Young Team for the first time.  This is fantastic. 

I have CODY on cd and it's fine but I can see that album *crushing* on a home vinyl setup. 
 
 
Edit - i'm listening to the 1997 Disc 1 video on Youtube and it sounds wonderful through our home TV stereo setup.  Can anyone fill me in on any remaster or remix lineages?  Is this era of the release worth getting or should I go for this new remaster?

Also, I've purposefully held off on Mogwai so that I still have bands left to discover.  I burned through post-rock real fast but wanted to keep some mysteries left to be mined.  They are one of them

I hope things will get sorted for Charlie, and for Chris to eventually stop doing all these insincere stuff.

Word, that sucks man I know the feeling.  Had to go through that with all 3 of my cats in the span of a year from 2020-2021.  Godspeed friend. 

If you didn't go, that's a bad decision.  Last night was awesome. 

Here is an open offer to anybody/first come, first served.  There are no videos from this tour with the rarities.  Everyone is grabbing Death Is a Relief.  I have a proposition for anybody will to take it - if you film the whole set, or SPOILER SPOILER STOP READING IF YOU DONT WANT TO KNOW -> -> Yawning and Take Me With You, I will cover your ticket price or drinks.  I am 100000% serious. 

Yawning and Take Me With You will likely never be played again.  They were rare even when they had less material, and what with the drunk tourists talking over all the quiet stuff, I think it's to be expected that these tunes never come back unless they do a Death Spells anniversary tour in 20 years. 
 
 
It doesn't have to be up front or anything.  Full set gets you ticket price + drinks because that's a haul.  Yawning and Take Me With You gets you your first drink.  Candy through Take Me With You (first 4 songs) gets you ticket price.  That's probably the best deal because your ticket is covered and you can enjoy the back half of the set.  We have enough videos of Arrow lol. 

 

If you didn't go, that's a bad decision.  Last night was awesome. 

Here is an open offer to anybody/first come, first served.  There are no videos from this tour with the rarities.  Everyone is grabbing Death Is a Relief.  I have a proposition for anybody will to take it - if you film the whole set, or SPOILER SPOILER STOP READING IF YOU DONT WANT TO KNOW -> -> Yawning and Take Me With You, I will cover your ticket price or drinks.  I am 100000% serious. 

Yawning and Take Me With You will likely never be played again.  They were rare even when they had less material, and what with the drunk tourists talking over all the quiet stuff, I think it's to be expected that these tunes never come back unless they do a Death Spells anniversary tour in 20 years. 
 
 
It doesn't have to be up front or anything.  Full set gets you ticket price + drinks because that's a haul.  Yawning and Take Me With You gets you your first drink.  Candy through Take Me With You (first 4 songs) gets you ticket price.  That's probably the best deal because your ticket is covered and you can enjoy the back half of the set.  We have enough videos of Arrow lol. 

 

this is very interesting music.  Kind of hitting me in the Viva Belgrado feels.  If you are into this band, you really ought to be listening to Viva Belgrado. 
 
Glad you're carrying the group buy torch, Derek.  It's a tough job, but it's fun if you've got the time. 

New Glaston single released today is so good!
 
 
thanks Gumbo for the heads up once again

You want to go with Dunk! Pressing.  They've been cranking out really nice products and are about to scale up in a big, BIG way.  Their turnarounds are not crazy, and they are some of the nicest people.  Shipping from Belgium.  I have so many of their records, and they all sound great.  They're still small enough to care about the product and not just crank out shit to make product.  They're good people, I know them personally through their festival.  You can tell Wout and Luc that Greg sent you. 
 
https://www.dunkpressing.com/

Not sure what or where or how to note this, but for the first time that I can recall, I'm not allowed to use my ad blocker on the site here.  Is that normal or a new thing?  It's definitely never asked me to turn it off for years, and it won't let me access the site now unless i do that. 

Anybody? 

this is very interesting music.  Kind of hitting me in the Viva Belgrado feels.  If you are into this band, you really ought to be listening to Viva Belgrado. 
 
Glad you're carrying the group buy torch, Derek.  It's a tough job, but it's fun if you've got the time. 

Yeah I think I could take 1 of each from Post's shop!
The Shy, Low S/T sounds great - very happy with that preorder/purchase. 

Their set at Dunk was fucking mindblowing.  The lights, and the sound... it was so much.  I was a bit too tired to really appreciate it all but man, those climax moments during that set were BONKERS.  I can't even fathom how they're going to fit on the St. Vitus stage?  it's like 20 feet wide.  The Dunk stage had to be 100 and they filled it. 

I'll probably come haha

their live set at Dunk was truly tremendous.  You think they're good on record.... mannnnnn you don't even know haha.  It was something else. 
 
uhhhhhhhhh that's a bold statement.  i'm curious...

Man.  You guys need to go to Dunk!.  Like, holy crap.

Bruit....  Hubris... Year of No Light... Of the Vine... OUTLANDER!!!!!!!!

I can't stress how good Outlander was.  If you think they are great on record, they absolutely utterly DESTROY on stage.  Their setlist was Threadbare, Return, Sinking, Sundowning.  3 Valium tracks ❤️ ❤️ ❤️
 
Like, fuck dude.  It's so doable too!  It's in Ghent now, so you just fly into Brussels, take ONE TRAIN, and then you're there.  You get off at Gent - St. Pieters station, and take the tram for 10 mins into the center of the city, and you are 5 mins walking from everything.  It's so ridiculously easy.  I am not rich, and I don't make a ton of money, and we were able to do it again this year.  You guys can do this.  You need to. 

please come see the magic once before you die

You can still get vinyl $19 and cassette $8 from Holodeck. Elude is just gloomy perfection. Never thought I would like something like it, but it's very visceral for me. I had the vinyl and picked up a couple cassettes at their show with Slow Crush (and Twin Drugs for @mrewestjeje) right before the pandemic.
Buy Grivo Here --->

this is really nice, i like it.


Now someone sell me a copy of Grivo - "Elude"

man these old tracks are so good.  Love this band. 

Can't remember if i have Oshin yet or not haha, ooof.  Is that how you know you have too many records? 

I'm with you on EIP being too busy sometimes.  I enjoy it, but I enjoy Effloresce and Frames much, much, much more.  There's more of a balance of calm to chaos on those, I guess.  EIP is a lot of chaos. 

I have originals of all full lengths, and I have the remaster of Effloresce too.  They're both good.  I would say that the remaster is a bit of an improvement, it just sounds sturdier.  The original is still enjoyable, but it's like you just went from a 320mp3 to a wav.  The 320 was definitely enjoyable, but the wav is just a bit better. 


On another note, does anybody know why Mike says this:  "The creatively lauded and commercially maligned sophomore album by Oceansize has, unbelievably, earned its self a reissue!"