Derek™

@gutterball1

I’ll take your word on that.  My half-minute of sampling was cursory at best and there’s no way I’m going to do a side-by-side comparison, but I trust that take.

Someone @ me when those vocals go full Challenger Deep.

(The new one was not worth sampling.)

I misread your post, and hope you actually meant that the vocals are way too high in the mix.  From cautiously curious to absolute nope in about 30 seconds.

You’re disappointed because you can’t hear the vocals?  Am I interpreting that right?  Asking because the vocals are 100% the reason I can’t stomach this band.  Actually enjoy some of the mathy songwriting and curveballs, but not enough to get over those vox.  Maybe this new one is worth sampling…

Would be pretty neat if we could ever get that alleged sophomore album.

I'll chime in if not just to mix things up a little bit.  I've been chipping away at this reply on and off in a separate tab for like a week now.  Forgive any redundancy or incoherentness, I feel like it's probably all over the place.  But the thread is starting to sputter out so... why not?

2023 felt no different than any other year of the hobby™, barring a few exceptions.  In terms of how much did you end up buying?, the answer for me is – a lot.  I'm either doing something very right or very wrong.

But the biggest differentiator to years prior, I think, boils down to 1 concept: patience.  Sometimes it took months for pre-orders to go live.  Other times a release was riddled with delays for weeks or months on end.  I've come to accept [some years back] that we no longer get the luxury of spinning a record the same day an album is released digitally.  If a record shows up on release day – or early! – it's a rarity, and one I appreciate.  But it's absolutely not the norm among the artists and labels I frequent, and that just is what it is.  The silver lining there is that we sometimes get months to allow the dust to settle and decide if that new album is truly worth picking up.  With that in mind, sites like Zia, Bull Moose, and Rough Trade were all key-players in my 2023 preorders.  Any site that doesn't charge until shipment, with easy 1-click cancellations – those were my bread & butter.  Can't tell you how many cancellations and re-orders I'd place with Bull Moose to maintain free shipping.  Sometimes that meant that I'd receive a record 1-2+ months after everyone else, but it felt worth it.  Again; patience.

Record MSRP has been ass, I have nothing to really contribute to that discussion.  I think Covid was just the perfect maelstrom of opportunity to up the price of records; a nice trajectory of record sales, crippled supply chains / materials, and newjack collectors thinking $50+ is acceptable to drop on a double LP because they've never known better.  The wrong people took note of how willing collectors are to wait extended periods of time to receive a lackluster product of something they overpaid for... and here we are.  Imagine spending $39 PPD for a bare-bone, no-frill, flimsy ass colored 12" that you had to wait 6 months to receive.  You probably don't have to use too much of your imagination, because I bet that's happened to every single one of us in the last year or two, and I just see it more and more.  Shit sucks.  On the subject of MSRP, I will say I try my best to vote with my dollar.  Labels trying to produce the bare minimum for $40 will probably still sell out of a limited release, but at least I won't be contributing to those sales. 🤷‍♂️ There were some pretty rare exceptions here and there since those are tough guns to stick to.  Those Hum reissues were one of my favorite releases of 2024, and they were $40 a pop I think.  (But also double LPs with nice jackets, and lots of love into the mastering and pressings.)  Or Nouns' Still Bummed, which has been desperately overdo for a vinyl press.  Also $40+ spent mumbling under my breath, but having the opportunity to own a cleaned-up mix on something that's not a lathe?  Had to be done.  (It was also released on the band's own label which they just opened.  Overpaying for stuff sucks a little less when it's going to DIY roots.)

Trying to think of what else felt different in 2023.  I think I definitely coordinated a few more imports with friends, on stuff that was only available from abroad.  Gotta' soften that blow as much as possible, when possible.  Also being real with myself when cheaper options were offered.  Do I need the extra 12" of remixes I'll never listen to, housed in the exclusive boxset casing, for an extra $25 imported?  Or could I probably settle for an equally boring variant in a normal gatefold from Bull Moose and get free shipping?  This was something I'd always ask myself, but I guess in the last year or two, I've become much more comfortable not going nuts to butts on every single pre-order I was excited about.

It's cool to see more people become disenchanted with the idea that owning all releases for an artist is mandatory if you want to call yourself a true fan of said artist.  There are some artists I thoroughly enjoy with an album or two that just suck.  And no amount of bells and whistles on a fancy reissue are going to change that for me, so I'm not taking that bait.  (Especially when said reissue is probably $30+.)  On that note, I think in 2023 I've just placed more priority than ever on respecting the bang:buck ratio.  People dropping $37 PPD on a 15 minute EP is cool, I guess, but it ain't for me – even if the EP is enjoyable.  At the end of the day, I've found that no one gives a shit if you own every obscure split, 7", 10", comp, and cassette tape for an artist that you're into.  Chase all that stuff if you genuinely love the hunt and it scratches some kinda' itch for you, but it's nonsense to feel like you need that stuff on your shelf to prove that you can hang with the "real fans".  I see that mentality constantly on Reddit, it's wild.

The last thing I'll touch on is that the people who are really assessing their shelf estate and wondering "am I really going to spend time listening to this more than once?" – 100%, that's the ticket right there.  I've gotten pretty good at being honest with myself over that question, as years have gone on.  I can shrug off quite a few "impulse buys" I know I'd never listen to.  And I think I have a pretty good track-record on preordering stuff with confidence and not getting stung by it.  (The new album from Grails was my 1 dud purchase of last year.)  But with everything costing as much as it does anymore, absolutely ask yourself if it's worth actually owning, yeah.

At the end of last year, I actually added a new feature to my collection's spreadsheet – an Attachment column.  It's just a 1-5 rating on how attached I am to a given record in my collection, considering a few key factors (the music, the exclusivity, variant / packaging / press quality, the current value, sentimentality, etc.)

At its essence, it's like asking "if I lost this record in a fire, how bummed would I be about having to replace it?"  (A 5 would be crushed; very expensive or time-consuming to find a replacement in the condition my copy is in.  And a 2 or lower would be indifferent or carefree.)  I'm now in the process of revisiting everything I own and assigning it a rank, and the idea is to identify anything that's a 2 or lower to weed them out.  It's not a perfect system, especially since it leans so hard into my own personal value which is purely subjective.  But it's already helped me spot a few things here and there that I could live without, and with the size of my collection and amount spent in 2023, that's a healthy thing.  I know I'll have a problem if I start accumulating anything from 2023 / 2024 that becomes ranked a 2 or lower, because it means by ability to sniff out staying power or replay value is dwindling and that's bad news.

TL;DR – still bought a ton in 2023, but relied more on bundling for free shipping... even at the cost of waiting an extra month or two to receive my order.  Coordinated with friends for imports.  Avoided gimmick releases like usual and tried my best to "vote with my wallet" to dodge stuff excessively priced.  Still plenty of good stuff to be had for fair prices and reputable labels, especially if you're fatigued on splatter variants and have no interest in paying extra for them.  Still gunning for preferred variants, but also realistic with myself in not needing the best-of-the-best mega-deluxe-slipmat-boxset-signed-insert-bullshit version of everything, all time.  That's about it.

I actually want to see a new press of 200 with 20 colors /10, priced at $80 because each one has a different colored silkscreen sleeve.  Really see how far the goobers will go to sustain muh rare variants.

I hope that their remark on vinyl pertains to both SOS and C:D .  If Evpatoria can press Golevka, there’s no reason why Jakob couldn’t make these 2 classics happen.

3 hours ago, mindphaser said:

I saw it posted on a thread somewhere (might have been the band's Facebook page) that there will be retail copies of these coming out - I'm assuming on black vinyl. So if you're happy to wait a short while I'd say you'll get another chance without feeding the scalpers

“Full VC” is (presumably) = “full variant collection”.  As in, obtaining all colored variants for all records.  So scalpers will still be eating good in this case, unfortunately, unless there’s a lucky restock or someone sells their copies generously.

Woulda’ laughed if that was the only way to get the STS repress this year.  Missed opportunity.

On 11/16/2023 at 9:36 AM, prowl20 said:

As much as I really want that MOV copy of Delaware, I'm going to wait until the band has their own repress up. (They said they would, I'm going to hold them to it until I hear otherwise haha)

Not ruling out a tour, but there’s also going to be a drop of some sort over at Relapse @ 8:00 AM (PST).

I guess if you’re gonna’ scrape the barrel for some new income or attempts at relevancy, you may as well accept the meme you’ve become over the years and double down.

22 minutes ago, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ said:

I will say, OG pressings do tend to make good bowls

When it comes to bowls there is actually no point in using anything else.

2 hours ago, TheGhostOfRandySavage said:

I'd definitely trade off my Baroness - Red 1st press though. Don't care much about that.

Baller press of a baller record.

2 hours ago, phillybhatesme said:

@Derek™ You also mentioned something kind of interesting earlier too, not necessarily at play in OP's scenario, but relevant when comparing first presses to represses. Sometimes represses come with additional material, like new artwork, demos, re-recorded tracks, etc. So the "first press" aspect of owning an old record becomes even more nuanced. 

Yeah, I think I called that out though.  I have OG copies of stuff that I chose to not sell off or "upgrade" because the reissues contain more content (I wasn't interested in) spread across the same number of discs, or switched up the album art, and thus there's some added value in holding onto - or desiring - the 1st press.

I think the best example to support where I'm coming from is Interpol's Turn on the Bright Lights.  As a disclaimer, I will say that I've never owned an OG press from 2002.  I'm sure it sounds at least serviceable, since pressing plants gave a bit more of a shit about their product in the early 00s.  Discogs reviews had been hit-or-miss for it – not that I treat those as a beaming source of truth – and subsequent represses just seemed to sound worse and worse, including Newbury's fancy splatter variant from 2017.  That version was pretty desirable for collector's, but sounded like butt.

Then in 2022, a whole 20 years after the album debuted on vinyl, it finally got a double LP press handled through Vinyl Me Please.  45 RPM.  Beautiful, sturdy packaging.  I know there's a boxset version of that record (which still features the album on 1 LP), so from a perspective of actually enjoying the music and packaging, that VMP press is the definitive one for me.  But despite that, even a year later, there are people seeking OG copies.  Someone paid $117 for a copy just last weekend.  Different strokes for different folks and all that, but that'll never compute for me.

Anyways.  Hopefully no one misconstrued my tone or anything in this thread.  OP was coherent and presented a fair-enough question.  That's a lot more than we get from brand new accounts on VC anymore.

32 minutes ago, dlc3172 said:

I believe vinyl collectors would want first presses for the same reason that book collectors would want first editions and for the same reason that baseball card collectors want rookie cards.  It's the "first" of something, so for most collectors, it's the version they want.

That’s fine and all… but at the end of the day, there is music on these things.  I kind of view them closer to CDs than trading cards.  As far as functionality goes, anyway.

This argument doesn’t apply to the (many) scenarios where a 1st press was actually handled with more love and care than a cash-grab repress.  I totally get the draw there.  But ultimately if I can do an A:B comparison between an OG copy from 1983 and a 2023 press, and they each sound comparable, I’m gonna’ shell out $30 for a clean copy that hasn’t been handled for 40 years.

But like Randy mentioned above, superior sound quality is often tied to OG presses, especially with classic metal records… so I completely grasp that.

I just think there’s a lot of cases where a record may be pressed in ‘83, then ‘85, then ‘99, and then 2023… and of those, the 2023 may be trash, but the 80s and 90s presses would all sound comparably good.  If I had a ‘99 press, I wouldn’t feel like I needed an OG ‘83 copy, but I know people who don’t agree.  I guess that’s all I'm getting at.  I know my view on it isn’t accepted by all collectors or anything.

3 minutes ago, Tommy said:

Yeah, I think it mainly boils down to the person being able to flex that they are "more of a fan" for owning the OG. Tickles the same nerve as owning a colored copy vs std black I assume

Gotta' be something along those lines, yeah.  Which gets skewed when someone becomes a brand new fan of an artist but immediately takes it upon themselves to track down a 1st press, even if the prices are steep.  I've seen that happen quite a bit.

For color vs. black vinyl... I won't speak for everyone else out there, but I'll say that for me it just comes down to what I'm gonna' enjoy seeing and interacting with the most.  Which is why I'll always pass on ugly variants /100 and go for nicer or "more fitting" ones /2,000 if given the option between the two.

Not to hijack OP’s thread, but.

I get that people chase first presses, so I’m not trying to rain on any parades with this post.  But for those that do, I’ve never really understood why they do… unless that OG copy happens to sound the best or has some unique packaging / art / content that doesn’t make it onto future presses.

Maybe it’s just me but being able to say “yeah I own a 1st press” has never been a massive flex in my books.  I guess it’s nice when it happens but for releases that are just standard black vinyl and basic packaging, printed again and again over the years, I feel no additional satisfaction knowing that I bought a record 10 years before someone else bought an exact copy at their local shop for $22 or whatever.

In fact, I’ve often sold OG presses for a really nice profit, and then turned around to buy an expanded edition, or repress with better sound quality, or a cool variant.  So long as the sound quality is the same or better, I’ve personally thought of that as a win… but to each his own.

I have at least 1 friend who is always on the hunt for OG presses, even if they sound inferior or are scuffed to hell and back from being handled for the last 20+ years.  My guess is that for those folks, there’s something appealing about having a “relic” that’s been around since day 1 of the album being on the scene.  And I suppose I kinda’ get that.  Chalking it up to different priorities for different collectors.

That’s a whole lotta’ forgettable music.

3 hours ago, CatsNJazz said:

This band hasn't been good since ToT idk why everyone still flocks to these drops like they're actually going to miss out on something lol

Great Dismal is basically their best album to date so I don’t know if that makes any sense.

So I guess everyone’s pretty stoked on this, huh?  🦗🦗

It’s fitting for the band and their sound, and I mean that in the best way possible.  I like it more than the way the indie splatter turned out.

On 10/7/2023 at 8:16 AM, jtmckrackles said:

I forgot to pull the trigger on that yesterday, just remembered and am very butthurt. Oh well. Amazon it is I guess.

On 10/7/2023 at 10:54 AM, kas1985 said:

I can sympathize with you here. Despite owning the peach tour variant and the grey online variant from the last pressing, I am also rather butthurt about not obtaining this variant as well.

It looks to be restocked at the moment.  I'd keep it hush before Reddit finds out, but if either of you are quick...

Uh oh!  A "midnight" release with timezones mentioned? 🤔 VC better pocket this one for later.

3 hours ago, kas1985 said:

Despite owning the peach tour variant and the grey online variant from the last pressing, I am also rather butthurt about not obtaining this variant as well.

Especially since those variants (and that press) was pretty trash.  From my experience and many others’, anyway.