jerseypride

Man, I kinda envy those of you that are enjoying it. I honestly have no problem with the folks that want to listen to him. I guarantee you we all support much more evil and horrible people than Ryan. But I've just lost so much respect for him because he had a chance to show he was a mature adult and show some sort of empathy or (at least) understanding. 
 
I just see him as the immature narcissist that he has always been, now. 
 
His music strikes more like sad, destructive loser than hopeless romantic now.
 
Toxic defensive personalities really just turn me off, and unfortunately, it overshadows his music for me.
 
EDIT: Whoa, Just looked back at the last few pages of this thread. 
 
Loving specific art doesn't mean you have to love the artist. It's okay to feel complicated thoughts about situations like this. Ryan has his own label. I believe he lost the deal he had with Capitol or whatever. He should be allowed to release music, it's up to record stores if they want to carry it. 
 
Like I said, for me, I'm just not enjoying his music like I used to. It's okay for those who do. But defending his actions or blaming the victims is bullshit. Ryan is a textbook narcissist. (A lot of prolific artists are). I've seen him play a show where he was a total dick. I've also (in the last few album cycles) seen him be really gracious and friendly and put on an awesome show. 
 
Narcissism and bipolar disorder often overlap. The highs are high and the lows are low. He clearly has some mental health issues that are difficult to treat. While there's no excuse for his behavior, citing the 'highs' doesn't defend the 'lows'. I always loved to see Ryan when he was doing well. Unfortunately, like most narcissists, he doubles down when things get shitty. 
 
I'll keep hoping he gets better and owns up to his bullshit. But having been burned by people like him in my own life, I have very little confidence he'll ever get better. And I honestly feel horrible for him for it. 

I think what you're saying is that if someone is truly principled about "cancelling' an artist based on that artist's misconduct, why should it matter whether the music is good or lousy?
 
I think ntslash is candidly acknowledging that it's much easier to stick to your principles if you don't feel like you're sacrificing that much. 

Nah you’re good: https://thehardtimes.net/culture/man-only-listens-to-canceled-bands-on-spotify-so-he-doesnt-support-them-monetarily/

This is my point exactly. People are going to make their own decisions based on their own moral compass. We could go on all day with examples. Some people may shun the Beatles music because John Lennon was an admitted domestic abuser. Legions of others haven't let that get in the way of enjoying the Beatles. While I've taken Ryan Adams out of my rotation, I'm not about to get confrontational with peeps who can still get something enjoyable from his records.

It'd be rad if the dialogue here could continue the way the last few posts have.
 
I know this is the internet and it's super easy to curse at people and insult them without consequence. But I think it's way more interesting for people to disagree without telling each other to fuck off.
 
Whether one can/should separate art from the artist is a long running issue. I have my own take but it would be the height of hubris for me to get hostile and belittling towards someone whose views don't align exactly with mine.
 
It's not hard for me to understand that some folks can continue to enjoy the music of Ryan Adams notwithstanding reports about him. I also get why the absolutely abhorrent behavior that's been described is an instant "game over" for others.  I believe there's plenty of room for people of good faith to have different views about how this all impacts the music.
 
What I will never understand are the pro-Adams folks that try to excuse his behavior by pointing the finger at the victims of his behavior. I think that is absolutely wretched (yet, I can express this opinion without being uncivil). 
 
The last thing I want to mention concerns the allegations about Adam's online conduct with an underage individual. It was mentioned above (and among many other Adams fans) that the lack of any charges being filed somehow disproves the allegations against him. This is simply not true.
 
The February 2019 New York Times report confirms that Adams had sexually explicit exchanges with a minor. This included Adams exposing himself to her, requesting that she expose herself to him, giving nick names to her body parts, and expressing concern about the minor's mother finding out about their activities. How do we know this? Because the minor has screen grabs of all of this and it was independently verified by the NY Times, which has the receipts. Note that Adams has never denied this reporting. He has only denied knowing that the individual was underage.  The potential criminal charges would require proof that Adams knew he was soliciting a minor. This is not an easy thing to prove, which is certainly a plausible explanation for why charges have not been brought.  In fact, the NY Times reporting makes clear that on more than one occasion, Adams asked her to verify her age and she lied about being 18 (although he never forced the issue by requiring that she show him ID).  Many have been quick to point out that Adams very likely knew she was a minor (she was apparently well known on YouTube as a teenage music prodigy) and that Adams asking about her age was just an attempt to cover himself. 
 
Whatever you believe about Adams's actual knowledge, this uncertainty makes it easier to understand why charges were never brought.  None of this changes the fact that a 40-something man engaged in the conduct described above with someone he knew to be a teenager (and while he was married). Whether or not this rises to the level of chargeable criminal conduct, it is still, in my view, repugnant behavior for which he deserves to be judged.
 
 

I am a big fan of his music. But that doesn't prevent me from being very troubled by his actions. Is that seriously hard to make sense of?

To the extent your question is genuine, I follow musicians on social media to get updates on their musical projects.  That is what being a fan of his music has to do with checking his social media.

Nah you’re good: https://thehardtimes.net/culture/man-only-listens-to-canceled-bands-on-spotify-so-he-doesnt-support-them-monetarily/

I think what you're saying is that if someone is truly principled about "cancelling' an artist based on that artist's misconduct, why should it matter whether the music is good or lousy?
 
I think ntslash is candidly acknowledging that it's much easier to stick to your principles if you don't feel like you're sacrificing that much. 

I think what you're saying is that if someone is truly principled about "cancelling' an artist based on that artist's misconduct, why should it matter whether the music is good or lousy?
 
I think ntslash is candidly acknowledging that it's much easier to stick to your principles if you don't feel like you're sacrificing that much. 

Nah you’re good: https://thehardtimes.net/culture/man-only-listens-to-canceled-bands-on-spotify-so-he-doesnt-support-them-monetarily/

Nah you’re good: https://thehardtimes.net/culture/man-only-listens-to-canceled-bands-on-spotify-so-he-doesnt-support-them-monetarily/

Nah you’re good: https://thehardtimes.net/culture/man-only-listens-to-canceled-bands-on-spotify-so-he-doesnt-support-them-monetarily/

Ummmm what? Walk us through that logic.

Nah you’re good: https://thehardtimes.net/culture/man-only-listens-to-canceled-bands-on-spotify-so-he-doesnt-support-them-monetarily/

This is my point exactly. People are going to make their own decisions based on their own moral compass. We could go on all day with examples. Some people may shun the Beatles music because John Lennon was an admitted domestic abuser. Legions of others haven't let that get in the way of enjoying the Beatles. While I've taken Ryan Adams out of my rotation, I'm not about to get confrontational with peeps who can still get something enjoyable from his records.

This is my point exactly. People are going to make their own decisions based on their own moral compass. We could go on all day with examples. Some people may shun the Beatles music because John Lennon was an admitted domestic abuser. Legions of others haven't let that get in the way of enjoying the Beatles. While I've taken Ryan Adams out of my rotation, I'm not about to get confrontational with peeps who can still get something enjoyable from his records.

This is my point exactly. People are going to make their own decisions based on their own moral compass. We could go on all day with examples. Some people may shun the Beatles music because John Lennon was an admitted domestic abuser. Legions of others haven't let that get in the way of enjoying the Beatles. While I've taken Ryan Adams out of my rotation, I'm not about to get confrontational with peeps who can still get something enjoyable from his records.

It'd be rad if the dialogue here could continue the way the last few posts have.
 
I know this is the internet and it's super easy to curse at people and insult them without consequence. But I think it's way more interesting for people to disagree without telling each other to fuck off.
 
Whether one can/should separate art from the artist is a long running issue. I have my own take but it would be the height of hubris for me to get hostile and belittling towards someone whose views don't align exactly with mine.
 
It's not hard for me to understand that some folks can continue to enjoy the music of Ryan Adams notwithstanding reports about him. I also get why the absolutely abhorrent behavior that's been described is an instant "game over" for others.  I believe there's plenty of room for people of good faith to have different views about how this all impacts the music.
 
What I will never understand are the pro-Adams folks that try to excuse his behavior by pointing the finger at the victims of his behavior. I think that is absolutely wretched (yet, I can express this opinion without being uncivil). 
 
The last thing I want to mention concerns the allegations about Adam's online conduct with an underage individual. It was mentioned above (and among many other Adams fans) that the lack of any charges being filed somehow disproves the allegations against him. This is simply not true.
 
The February 2019 New York Times report confirms that Adams had sexually explicit exchanges with a minor. This included Adams exposing himself to her, requesting that she expose herself to him, giving nick names to her body parts, and expressing concern about the minor's mother finding out about their activities. How do we know this? Because the minor has screen grabs of all of this and it was independently verified by the NY Times, which has the receipts. Note that Adams has never denied this reporting. He has only denied knowing that the individual was underage.  The potential criminal charges would require proof that Adams knew he was soliciting a minor. This is not an easy thing to prove, which is certainly a plausible explanation for why charges have not been brought.  In fact, the NY Times reporting makes clear that on more than one occasion, Adams asked her to verify her age and she lied about being 18 (although he never forced the issue by requiring that she show him ID).  Many have been quick to point out that Adams very likely knew she was a minor (she was apparently well known on YouTube as a teenage music prodigy) and that Adams asking about her age was just an attempt to cover himself. 
 
Whatever you believe about Adams's actual knowledge, this uncertainty makes it easier to understand why charges were never brought.  None of this changes the fact that a 40-something man engaged in the conduct described above with someone he knew to be a teenager (and while he was married). Whether or not this rises to the level of chargeable criminal conduct, it is still, in my view, repugnant behavior for which he deserves to be judged.
 
 

It'd be rad if the dialogue here could continue the way the last few posts have.
 
I know this is the internet and it's super easy to curse at people and insult them without consequence. But I think it's way more interesting for people to disagree without telling each other to fuck off.
 
Whether one can/should separate art from the artist is a long running issue. I have my own take but it would be the height of hubris for me to get hostile and belittling towards someone whose views don't align exactly with mine.
 
It's not hard for me to understand that some folks can continue to enjoy the music of Ryan Adams notwithstanding reports about him. I also get why the absolutely abhorrent behavior that's been described is an instant "game over" for others.  I believe there's plenty of room for people of good faith to have different views about how this all impacts the music.
 
What I will never understand are the pro-Adams folks that try to excuse his behavior by pointing the finger at the victims of his behavior. I think that is absolutely wretched (yet, I can express this opinion without being uncivil). 
 
The last thing I want to mention concerns the allegations about Adam's online conduct with an underage individual. It was mentioned above (and among many other Adams fans) that the lack of any charges being filed somehow disproves the allegations against him. This is simply not true.
 
The February 2019 New York Times report confirms that Adams had sexually explicit exchanges with a minor. This included Adams exposing himself to her, requesting that she expose herself to him, giving nick names to her body parts, and expressing concern about the minor's mother finding out about their activities. How do we know this? Because the minor has screen grabs of all of this and it was independently verified by the NY Times, which has the receipts. Note that Adams has never denied this reporting. He has only denied knowing that the individual was underage.  The potential criminal charges would require proof that Adams knew he was soliciting a minor. This is not an easy thing to prove, which is certainly a plausible explanation for why charges have not been brought.  In fact, the NY Times reporting makes clear that on more than one occasion, Adams asked her to verify her age and she lied about being 18 (although he never forced the issue by requiring that she show him ID).  Many have been quick to point out that Adams very likely knew she was a minor (she was apparently well known on YouTube as a teenage music prodigy) and that Adams asking about her age was just an attempt to cover himself. 
 
Whatever you believe about Adams's actual knowledge, this uncertainty makes it easier to understand why charges were never brought.  None of this changes the fact that a 40-something man engaged in the conduct described above with someone he knew to be a teenager (and while he was married). Whether or not this rises to the level of chargeable criminal conduct, it is still, in my view, repugnant behavior for which he deserves to be judged.
 
 

Listen. You come in here with your logic, civility, thorough points, and perspective and expect a response? This is VC. You either sling shade at otgers because they have different perspectives than you and your triggered, mouth-breathing perspective or you gtfo. Or cat gifs.
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.
Just kidding. Very well worded. I personally won't with him (or the like), but I'm not shitting on anyone who does. I don't understand their take, because it's not cohesive to my experiences and perspective. But, that's kind of the point. It's all about perspectives. 

It'd be rad if the dialogue here could continue the way the last few posts have.
 
I know this is the internet and it's super easy to curse at people and insult them without consequence. But I think it's way more interesting for people to disagree without telling each other to fuck off.
 
Whether one can/should separate art from the artist is a long running issue. I have my own take but it would be the height of hubris for me to get hostile and belittling towards someone whose views don't align exactly with mine.
 
It's not hard for me to understand that some folks can continue to enjoy the music of Ryan Adams notwithstanding reports about him. I also get why the absolutely abhorrent behavior that's been described is an instant "game over" for others.  I believe there's plenty of room for people of good faith to have different views about how this all impacts the music.
 
What I will never understand are the pro-Adams folks that try to excuse his behavior by pointing the finger at the victims of his behavior. I think that is absolutely wretched (yet, I can express this opinion without being uncivil). 
 
The last thing I want to mention concerns the allegations about Adam's online conduct with an underage individual. It was mentioned above (and among many other Adams fans) that the lack of any charges being filed somehow disproves the allegations against him. This is simply not true.
 
The February 2019 New York Times report confirms that Adams had sexually explicit exchanges with a minor. This included Adams exposing himself to her, requesting that she expose herself to him, giving nick names to her body parts, and expressing concern about the minor's mother finding out about their activities. How do we know this? Because the minor has screen grabs of all of this and it was independently verified by the NY Times, which has the receipts. Note that Adams has never denied this reporting. He has only denied knowing that the individual was underage.  The potential criminal charges would require proof that Adams knew he was soliciting a minor. This is not an easy thing to prove, which is certainly a plausible explanation for why charges have not been brought.  In fact, the NY Times reporting makes clear that on more than one occasion, Adams asked her to verify her age and she lied about being 18 (although he never forced the issue by requiring that she show him ID).  Many have been quick to point out that Adams very likely knew she was a minor (she was apparently well known on YouTube as a teenage music prodigy) and that Adams asking about her age was just an attempt to cover himself. 
 
Whatever you believe about Adams's actual knowledge, this uncertainty makes it easier to understand why charges were never brought.  None of this changes the fact that a 40-something man engaged in the conduct described above with someone he knew to be a teenager (and while he was married). Whether or not this rises to the level of chargeable criminal conduct, it is still, in my view, repugnant behavior for which he deserves to be judged.
 
 

It'd be rad if the dialogue here could continue the way the last few posts have.
 
I know this is the internet and it's super easy to curse at people and insult them without consequence. But I think it's way more interesting for people to disagree without telling each other to fuck off.
 
Whether one can/should separate art from the artist is a long running issue. I have my own take but it would be the height of hubris for me to get hostile and belittling towards someone whose views don't align exactly with mine.
 
It's not hard for me to understand that some folks can continue to enjoy the music of Ryan Adams notwithstanding reports about him. I also get why the absolutely abhorrent behavior that's been described is an instant "game over" for others.  I believe there's plenty of room for people of good faith to have different views about how this all impacts the music.
 
What I will never understand are the pro-Adams folks that try to excuse his behavior by pointing the finger at the victims of his behavior. I think that is absolutely wretched (yet, I can express this opinion without being uncivil). 
 
The last thing I want to mention concerns the allegations about Adam's online conduct with an underage individual. It was mentioned above (and among many other Adams fans) that the lack of any charges being filed somehow disproves the allegations against him. This is simply not true.
 
The February 2019 New York Times report confirms that Adams had sexually explicit exchanges with a minor. This included Adams exposing himself to her, requesting that she expose herself to him, giving nick names to her body parts, and expressing concern about the minor's mother finding out about their activities. How do we know this? Because the minor has screen grabs of all of this and it was independently verified by the NY Times, which has the receipts. Note that Adams has never denied this reporting. He has only denied knowing that the individual was underage.  The potential criminal charges would require proof that Adams knew he was soliciting a minor. This is not an easy thing to prove, which is certainly a plausible explanation for why charges have not been brought.  In fact, the NY Times reporting makes clear that on more than one occasion, Adams asked her to verify her age and she lied about being 18 (although he never forced the issue by requiring that she show him ID).  Many have been quick to point out that Adams very likely knew she was a minor (she was apparently well known on YouTube as a teenage music prodigy) and that Adams asking about her age was just an attempt to cover himself. 
 
Whatever you believe about Adams's actual knowledge, this uncertainty makes it easier to understand why charges were never brought.  None of this changes the fact that a 40-something man engaged in the conduct described above with someone he knew to be a teenager (and while he was married). Whether or not this rises to the level of chargeable criminal conduct, it is still, in my view, repugnant behavior for which he deserves to be judged.
 
 

Updated the thread title so people know about the new record.

Thanks for the heads up! Grabbed one