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To tack on, I think the vocals on Ritchie Sacramento are some of my favorites of Mogwai's. 

They are in hand, should be shipping soon. Transmission is the pinnacle of strung out, for me. an album so good it ultimately broke up the band. They’ve talked about on podcast what at a struggle it was to record it and write it. The drummer would leave the band after the tour because of internal problems. Bad times equals great art. On the other hand, Songs of Armor drum tracks were recorded in one day and the whole album just seems uninspired and rushed, and I love this band, but the album just didn’t stand the test of time like Transmission did. 

Interesting dilemma.  Often times for me, adding vocals reduces the margin of error.  I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard a new band set up a promising song before stepping up to the mic and laying down some cornball vocals or just singing with distracting pronunciation / strain.  Way too many “man this was good but now it’s kinda’ ruined” moments.
I do think something like CODY’s sparsity or “skeletal” atmosphere contributes to its identity though.  Could really just be a case of different strokes for different folks, because Barrens’ Penumbra does little for me.  (In full transparency, I think a lot of Pelagic’s roster is a snooze these days.)
Post-rock is a broad-enough genre that offers enough for everyone to co-exist as fans of it, but I know I’d be pretty miffed if I could only cherry-pick select cuts from various Mogwai albums.  Wishing you the best in someday figuring out the rest, if that’s in your cards.

thanks dude.  just riding out the crud over here.  Gonna miss rehearsal tonight sadly, which hurts - we have *BIG* show Sunday doing a pre-party for Goose/Trey Anastasio Band.  So it goes sometimes.  I appreciate your thoughts - these deep discussions are very fun for me, and I haven't had a good back and forth here in a while, so thank you for your thoughtful replies. 
 

You know...  i'll jump on this tangent.  I've been back on a big Isis kick lately (I just bought all 4 Daymare  CD releases of Celestial > WR in mint/unopened condition because I'm a maniac) and I've been giving more time and attention to the Wavering Radiant bonus tracks. 

I hate... HATE to accept this fact...  but in spending a lot of time with those extra tunes, I have now come to the conclusion that their progression had dried up.  Those songs are not as good as the album tunes.  So, I think the band was right to call it quits.  Perhaps they were typical B-side quality and that a new album push would result in better songwriting results, but man...  I was pretty bummed to feel this way about Isis.  I was firmly in the camp of "This band should have never stopped and they could never write a bad song."  As an artist, I fully know how some songs just don't always land as hits sometimes.  But it made me really wonder, had their progression gone as far as it could?

And it makes me think of Mogwai, because Mogwai continues to basically ALWAYS do new shit.  And it somehow always seems fresh.  My theory as to why they are successful vs. Isis is that all of the members are onboard and bought in.  Isis were not.  Aaron Turner has gone on record saying how WR and ITAOT contain LOTS of difficult creative compromises for him.  And if you listen to where Sumac is going, I think its easy to see what side of the coin he was on as far as the clean singing/atmospherics, etc. 

Rosetta has been going through a similar progression, but that band has dried up heavily too.  I don't think they've even played live since Dunk18?  But I feel like those members are still all bought into the creative shapeshifting with Eric on board. 



Oh, and pro-tip loophole:  "Hey babe I want these records for Christmas ->"   lol (for YT and CODY)

EDIT - fuck YT is sold out.  Where do i go now?! 

EDIT 2 - it's sold out on their website, but not Bandcamp?  Amazon has them too....   do you guys have a thought?

Derek summed up my thoughts pretty well. I'll just add that I meant no malice in my comments. FWIW, I generally resort to saying I am not into something, rather than it sucks. That said, I think there is validity in calling something out for being derivative. That doesn't mean it sucks. It just means it isn't doing anything different. There is definitely some post-rock and post-metal that I enjoy that has completely taken the formula and replicated it. Hell, Russian Circles did it to themselves on their last few albums. Enjoyable? yes. Anything different? no. I also think that not all of music that seems derivative comes from a genuine place. There are definitely bands/labels that see something as trendy or profitable and jump on it. Deep Elm is a pro at that game now...
Back to Mogwai. My Father My King is amazing. It really deserves a decent pressing. The OG sounds like trash. It is not worth chasing down. I really hope to get that Rock Action material in a box set someday. That was a great era.,
Anyway, I hope you feel better soon Gumbo.

Well said all around.  I agree – at least in regards to music I’d legitimately listen to, I don’t think I’ve ever reduced a critique to “this shit sucks”.  Because that’s about as boring and non-constructive as circle-jerking all bands, all albums, all the time.  I’ll definitely comment if the production is questionable, or if certain vocals / stylistic changes just don’t do it for me, or if a song’s direction is failing to grab me like a previous record has.  I think that drives discussion and is way more interesting than having everyone post order confirmations or talk about shipping notifications.  I’ve seen way too many VC threads get reduced to that, and… no thanks.
Pretty good example with RC too.  They aren’t exactly pushing the creative envelope with every album but they still do what they do better than 99% of the bands they share the genre with, so I celebrate it for sure.  I’m really trying to think of the last VC “big hype” post-rock thread that I was nonplussed about, and what I may have posted as a critique.  (If I even bothered to post at all.)
Re: Mogwai, I will peer-pressure you into buying these sooner than later, Gumbo.  No idea how many were pressed but I’m starting to see them dry up here and there.  Same thing kinda’ happened with that EPx3 set but I think it eventually started to get replenished, so who knows.  The demand for a YT repress was a lot greater than the demand for that set though.  I would kick myself hard if $70+ became the norm on the aftermarket for a YT repress… because it’s be between that or $100+ for an older press.  Even if you don’t fully get YT / CODY at present, they’re 2 albums that are completely worth securing to have later.
I didn’t realize the press(es?) of MFMK were so bad.  That’s a shame.  I’ve had it on my wantlist for a minute, holding out for something that’s both decently priced and also in good shape.  Seems to be one or the other.  At this point I think I’ll just wait for a proper reissue, whether it’s in a box or not.  I saw Stuart comment that even Government Commissions is being repressed, and that’s a fairly obscure cut for the band.  I’m confident MFMK will get the wax treatment, and hopefully handled well.

Derek summed up my thoughts pretty well. I'll just add that I meant no malice in my comments. FWIW, I generally resort to saying I am not into something, rather than it sucks. That said, I think there is validity in calling something out for being derivative. That doesn't mean it sucks. It just means it isn't doing anything different. There is definitely some post-rock and post-metal that I enjoy that has completely taken the formula and replicated it. Hell, Russian Circles did it to themselves on their last few albums. Enjoyable? yes. Anything different? no. I also think that not all of music that seems derivative comes from a genuine place. There are definitely bands/labels that see something as trendy or profitable and jump on it. Deep Elm is a pro at that game now...
Back to Mogwai. My Father My King is amazing. It really deserves a decent pressing. The OG sounds like trash. It is not worth chasing down. I really hope to get that Rock Action material in a box set someday. That was a great era.,
Anyway, I hope you feel better soon Gumbo.

Oh yeah.  A lot of bands and genres (can) shine brighter in a live setting, that’s for sure. For instrumental stuff, I think it’s a real game-changer for those who aren’t necessarily acclimated to the genre.  It all hits a little different when the sounds are completely washing over you.  For that reason I feel like the right venue or sound setup can make any cookie-cutter post-rock band a real treat to spectate.  I’ve seen TWDY play on a modest little corner stage of a bar, with minimal lighting effects or flashy shenanigans.  (As I’m sure you’re aware, the full band lineup doesn’t even stand when playing.)  It was chill but it was massive.  I don’t think the bar residents were expecting them to pack the punch that they did.  There’s something to be said about a lot of post-rock bands accomplishing a certain oomph in their sound to perhaps make up for the lack of vocals.
In terms of being critical about music… I mean, at risk of being blunt or rude here, all I can really say is tough tiddies. 🤷‍♂️ The internet is ripe with multiple degrees of criticism and I think VC’s is considerably tame in the grand scheme of things.  I know I made this point earlier but I’ll reiterate it – I dabble in graphic design.  I’m not a professional but I know when something looks good or insuring, and when something is a mess of Comic Sans or overplayed effects.  I have no problem discussing that kind of stuff in a negative light.  Which is very different than me attacking the artist directly or publicly posting an essay on how trash the work is, how the artist should retire, how no one will ever want to look at it, etc.  You’re on end of the scale.  Toxic dismantling is the opposite end.  VC is somewhere in the middle.  So I do get where you’re coming from with what you’ve posted above, and good on ya’ for sticking so tightly to a “if you don’t have anything nice to say…” fundamental.  But quite frankly I think it would be boring as hell if we could only jerk off about bands and never shared any varying opinions.  (Being a Mogwai thread, I’ve even been “eh” on a single or two they’ve released, and voiced it accordingly.  It makes for interesting conversation.  I’m not afraid that Stuart will read it and call it quits for the band, or that it’ll come back to haunt me should I ever write or perform music down the road.)
The post-rock flame may have sizzled out for now, but that doesn’t mean that you can’t stoke it when the time is right.  Of that big stash of records I mentioned earlier, residing on my shelves, apparently 20.3% of it falls under the post-rock umbrella in some manner or another.  That’s post-rock, post-metal, stuff with vocals like Moving Mountains and Appleseed, etc.  That’s pretty substantial.  About 400 records.  And that’s after pruning out some so-so stuff over the years.  But I hold onto those because I know that even if the mood for them only comes around once a year, I’ll want to own it and spin it when that time is right.  I wouldn’t trade those out or sell those off for cheap anytime soon, even if I don’t feel enamored with the genre at the moment.  I go through the same kind of cyclical binges for electronic, hip-hop, metal, etc.
I don’t know if you or anyone else will relate to this, but for me, hopping so vastly between albums or genres - like you mentioned with going from prog to post-rock to metal - is almost like a bit of a cool down or recalibration.  I can’t listen to 5 hours straight of upbeat electronic music in a day.  Nor I have the stomach for 5 hours of instrumental albums or dense metal.  But each time I leap from one of those to the next, it’s a palette cleanser of sorts and just makes the next listen all the more refreshing. Props to anyone who can binge certain artists for hours or days on end – the fatigue is too real for me to handle that.  Even if I’m on a big kick with a certain artist, I feel like 1-2 albums at most and I need to mix things up.
And yes.  100%, the right kind of setting is so important.  LLO would make very little sense to me cooped up indoors on a cold night.  CODY would feel off on a sunny afternoon drive.  Of course I could “get something” from the music in either of those settings but it’s nowhere near ideal, and I do think the right kind of setting or situation can really add new context or mold the way you feel about a particular band, or artist for that matter. 

I think anyone with even vaguely admirable tastes in music experience a similar cyclical nature of music consumption.  I know I do.  I listen to too many bands and genres to just commit to one or two for months, weeks, or even days.  The burnout is too real.  As I’ve gotten older I’ve found tremendous value in being able to identify what kind of musical mood I’m in, and how to best scratch that itch.  There’s nothing quite like finding the album to throw on that will “get you your fix” of what you’re after.  Sometimes that’s riffs for days.  Sometimes it’s mathy guitar noodling.  Walls of guitar, a la shoegaze.  Minimal ambience.  Aggressive.  Acoustic.  Electronic.  Sludgy.  Etc. etc.  For me anyway, I don’t think it’s aligned with ADD so much as “hey, I have 2,000 records and there’s 365 days in a year.  Maybe it’s time to dust off [X].”  Often times I do, and I’ll find myself remarking at how good the band / genre is.  I’ll find myself grateful that I own it, and that I was fortunate enough to stumble across it in my time here on Earth.  And if I feel nothing, it’s time to sell it.
That being said, I have been “off” the post-rock cycle for a bit now.  I anticipate coming back to it, but it’s not something I’m going to force.  There’s no quicker way to feel meh about your records than forcing yourself to spin specific ones in hopes of grasping something that isn’t there in the moment.  So while the idea of throwing on some Caspian, TWDY, Mono, or EITS has no real appeal to me right now – and hasn’t really, for months – I do indeed know the value of those artists and albums.  What they meant to me, and what they probably still mean to me when I’m in an instrumental music kinda’ mood.  If that changes as times goes on, I’d reevaluate things and potentially look into selling them off… but I see no rush or pressure to do it.  As long as my shelves aren’t filling up with stuff I’m detached from, I’m happy.
I’m not totally sure what you were getting at with the implication that “we” may or may not bully post-rock bands here.  (On VC?)  I think in the past, maybe the general post-rock thread, a lot of us were quick to dismiss a lot of the dime-a-dozen crescendo-core bands that you were gushing on.  (Only because the formula had been beaten to death to most of our ears.)  If you made a PO thread for one of those bands though, I think you’d get a yawn emoji from someone, at worst.  No one is deliberating going into threads and trying to convince someone to not pre-order something.  At least, not from what I’ve seen.  (Excluding bootlegs; that’s a separate issue though.)
Not to sound like an elitist goon but as time has gone on, I feel like your tastes have began to slowly align to mine and others.  That isn’t to say I (or we) set the defining parameters for all things post-rock on VC.  Just an observation that you’re maybe becoming seasoned and jaded like everyone else – on our cyclical music journeys – and perhaps even starting to appreciate more bands that broke the usual post-rock mold from 15+ years ago.
I never assumed you loved all things shimmery / epic / “life-affirming”.  So many bands have tried - are trying - to get their bag with a slice of the genre.  But you don’t need me to tell you just how much formulaic drivel is out there.  (I say all of this as a music consumer; I have no real instrument talent and thus hesitate to call stuff derivative.  But you don’t need to be a master chef to identify a bland meal.)  Stuff like This Patch of Sky, later ITTCT, Spurv, etc. do a lot more for you than me, and that’s cool.  I don’t think anyone is out to bash you for that or interesting in changing your mind there.  I think it’s great to be very passionate and engaged about anything in life - especially music - but I also suspect that if you were the kinda’ person to just post “new Spurv made me splooge” or “man I’m really enjoying the new GIAA even if it’s not doing anything mind-blowing”, you probably wouldn’t get a single reaction.  You’ve toned it down considerably but I feel like a lot of us were just taking the piss, back when you first joined VC, because every week saw you posting about your mind being blown by artists that were drawing from a dry well.  It’s tough not to respond when someone links a certified YouTube-only post-rock band that apes Mono or EITS, while writing about life changing their sound is.  Hopefully you get that any responses of that nature were akin to “busting your balls” for the sake of VC entertainment.  These boards get super slow these days; those replies come more from a place of endearment than malice.
Onto Mogwai.
CODY is a bit of a tough nut to crack on first go, so don’t feel too disheartened.  All I can recommend, first and foremost, is that it’s a night listen.  The first third of that album is like a warm blanket.  One that gradually starts to slip off, leaving you exposed and cold in some secluded area.  And the last stretch feels like a mad dash out of there, with your heartbeat throbbing in your ears.  Even the album’s heaviest and most explosive moments take their time to pop off.  The entire LP is a practice of patience and payoff.  You’re right in saying that that structure resembles a song in and of itself.
You’re floating around with early Mogwai from the sounds of it, and that’s a great start.  Check out Ten Rapid if you get a chance.  It’s a shorter listen; a compilation of their earliest material.  Not all of it will stick with you, I don’t imagine, but it has some super important cuts.  Helicon 1, especially, taps into the traditional post-rock twinkle before smothering your ears in guitars.  To this day I think it’s maybe one of the most melancholy-drenched shoegaze songs I’ve heard; underneath the fuzzy onslaught of guitars are some chord changes that never fail to hit me right in the gut.  What a magic song.  I’m so glad they’ve kept it a part of their live arsenal over the years.
Anyway, I don’t expect everyone to read all this but I figured it’s some quality reading material for @Gumbo72203 while he’s home sick.  Feel better soon.

^ I agree with a lot of that, Derek. To be fair, I can't listen to much of the twinkly, whatever-wave post-rock these days. It all sounds cliched and cheesy. Early Mogwai certainly had the quiet-loud aspect, but the feel was very different. A friend of mine who hasn't listened to Mogwai in a while described that early stuff as "punishing."
What I love about Mogwai is the breadth of their catalog. Diving into them now for the first time will surely be an adventure.
Even my least favorite Mogwai records are some of my favorite records.

Even some of the bands you listed there have evolved and experimented some beyond what I jokingly refer to on VC as Gumbo-core. It's all the optimistic-sounding crescendo post-rock that just bores me to death. I throw Caspian in list (sorry).
I discovered CODY shortly after it was released - I was in college at the time. Every album after has hit in just the right way. Just when I think I have a personal ranking/preference, I toss on one that I claim is my least favorite, and I love it, realizing I can't really rank them. Every album has a mood.

Like Herod is about as punishing as post-rock gets.
I think there’s probably a time and place for crescendo-core but at the same time I think the market has been saturated with that sound for way too long, and anyone following instrumental “rock” for the last 15-20 years is just fatigued by it.  Especially after seeing Mogwai live for the first time, back in… 2013, 2014 or so, I feel like I’ve 100% been reaching for their albums more consistently than stuff like Caspian, TWDY, etc.  Not that there’s anything wrong with those bands or their ability to write a tune, but it just feels like there is such a deeper well of creative songwriting to draw from with Mogwai.  And it spans across so many records, and so many years.  Once you figure out which albums satisfy specific moods, and start to attach some memories to them, it starts to feel like there’s almost no bad time to throw on at least one Mogwai record.
And this is all coming from someone who was late to the party.  It’d be so cool to follow this band from the late 90s.  I was in grade school when YT dropped; I didn’t appreciate music as a whole, let alone new genres.  I think I downloaded all their stuff in 2011, with the intent of checking them out in chronological order.  I remember YT and CODY being so intriguing on first play… and then the next morning, or maybe a couple of days later, HWNDBYW leaked.  Hearing that in its entirety really helped me realize that they were something beyond EITS, GY!BE, Caspian, TWDY, ITTCT, and whatever post-rock I was getting acclimated to, all those years ago.  Feels like I’ve been pretty loyal to them ever since.

^ I agree with a lot of that, Derek. To be fair, I can't listen to much of the twinkly, whatever-wave post-rock these days. It all sounds cliched and cheesy. Early Mogwai certainly had the quiet-loud aspect, but the feel was very different. A friend of mine who hasn't listened to Mogwai in a while described that early stuff as "punishing."
What I love about Mogwai is the breadth of their catalog. Diving into them now for the first time will surely be an adventure.
Even my least favorite Mogwai records are some of my favorite records.

^ I agree with a lot of that, Derek. To be fair, I can't listen to much of the twinkly, whatever-wave post-rock these days. It all sounds cliched and cheesy. Early Mogwai certainly had the quiet-loud aspect, but the feel was very different. A friend of mine who hasn't listened to Mogwai in a while described that early stuff as "punishing."
What I love about Mogwai is the breadth of their catalog. Diving into them now for the first time will surely be an adventure.
Even my least favorite Mogwai records are some of my favorite records.

If I know Gumbo like I think I know Gumbo, he’s still gonna’ have a soft spot for tremolo-core and favor it to the breadth of sounds that Mogwai covers.
In all fairness I sort of get why someone may want to keep a band like Mogwai in their back pocket.  They have such a lengthy discography and are held in high regard among most post-rock circles… it’s like having a reserve of good music on tap.  But at the same time, if it were me – knowing the band was still active – I’d want to know if they were suited for me or not, and would have to explore them to be prepared for new POs, limited edition reissues, and tour announcements.  To each their own though.
I feel like Mogwai are kind of the name referenced when discussing quiet-loud-quiet-loud songwriting in post-rock.  Which is funny because Stuart and co. hate being labeled “post-rock” if I remember correctly.  I do think that people who live for Caspian’s twinkly guitars and cinematic “wall of soaring guitars” - with interest in little else - won’t really get just how much Mogwai bring to the table.  There’s a ton to process, especially when being yanked around with styles that you don’t encounter in typical post-rock: slowcore, vocals, vocoder, heavy electronic / synths, etc.  There are undoubtedly post-rock bands that incorporate those sounds, of course.  But few that integrate them so heavily and frequently as Mogwai.
Anyway.  I do wish I could go back into their discography blind or with minimal exposure.  Especially in 2022.  I can only imagine.  I think there is a ton and that it can’t possibly just click instantly, all at once.  (Especially if it challenges the conventional EITS / TWDY 9-minute guitar crescendos.)  But it’s so good and worth the time to explore – even my least favorite Mogwai records are worth owning and sitting down with.

LOL at fawning over so much derivative post-rock and then coming to Mogwai. Glad you finally got there Gumbo. Not sure how you're ever going to go back to the copycats now.

What are you asking about the YT remaster, Gumbo?  It’s impossible to predict how the new one will sound.  All we know is that the original 1997 recording engineer (Paul Savage) is handling it.  Are you asking if you should grab this new reissue or spring for an OG press?
“Fine”

You’re officially banned from the post thread for taking this long. Mogwai is where you start, not where you end. How dare you. 

Why would you boycott Bullmoose still? They became completely employee owned after the major issues

Why would you boycott Bullmoose still? They became completely employee owned after the major issues

there isnt a single bad song on this record.