Jump to content

Swans Hype: 2022 Edition


Recommended Posts

would y'all mind elaborating on how what Gira described counts as sexual assault? he literally didn't specify anything that happened besides saying it was consensual and it was never consummated. I'm genuinely curious as to how you're reading that statement and deducting "admission of sexual assault" from it without some serious bias

Sure, sorry, I wasn't too clear.

Maybe I missed something, and I apologize if I did, but it seems like he was saying they were about to have a consensual affair and he stopped before it went too far but they both wanted to be with each other during that time.

This is what's at the core of what I'm saying, but you have to dig into a little deeper than that.

First (again) I'd like to preface that I'm NOT taking sides, just playing devil's advocate here. NONE of us have enough information to make a call one way or the other. The main thing I'm arguing against is that people seem really quick to dismiss the accusations.

So, she (sorry, I don't recall her name) says that he was raped. She states penetration. So if she's telling the truth, it's rape.

He states (with backup from his wife, who wasn't there, so it doesn't really matter what she thinks), that while something happened (he was not clear as to what) there was no penetration. So if he's telling the truth it's PROBABLY not rape (please see the definition of rape at the bottom of this post).

The thing is, the two statements have some grey area between them, and are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

Possibility #1 - Rape does not require penetration via penis in vagina to be considered rape. Additionally, the idea that she was incapable of providing consent is definitely in place. So it's possible they are both telling the truth.

Possibility #2 - Gira is telling the truth, and there was no rape. However, again the incapability to provide consent to whatever DID happen is still an issue. In this case, since she was definitely not cool with whatever did happen, and did not consent to whatever did happen, this would be considered sexual assault (again, please see definition at bottom of post).

Possibility #3 - Gira is lying, there was penetration. Under no circumstances would this possibility NOT be rape if the bit about her being unconscious was true. Even if she was awake, she was drunk, even if she was sober enough to make a decision and said yes it would likely still fall under sexual assault due to the "assailant being in a position of authority" issue.

Basically, no matter how the chips fall, Gira did a shitty thing by his own admission.

EDIT: Additionally, the stats on falls accusations of rape state that the percentages are really REALLY low . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_accusation_of_rape

Definitions (any emphasis mine):

Rape (via FBI): The new Summary definition of Rape is: “Penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim.”

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/recent-program-updates/new-rape-definition-frequently-asked-questions

Definition of sexual assault

  • : illegal sexual contact that usually involves force upon a person without consent or is inflicted upon a person who is incapable of giving consent (as because of age or physical or mental incapacity) or who places the assailant (as a doctor) in a position of trust or authority

[/size][/font][/color]
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think you're just confused with definitions Daegor. Rape requires penetration according to the law... that "usually" you underlined isn't referring to the sexual intercourse itself but rather the forceful manner *and the sex of the victim. Rape is always sexual assault, but sexual assault isn't always rape. Nobody is arguing and dismissing sexual assault allegations, we're questioning why Gira's statement = rape so simply according to a few posts above. Found the answer now, thanks.

 

 

 

Edit: * Forgot to include this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think his wife was hinting at that she had proof he didn't do it not because she believes him but they evidence probably in the form or emails or something, like she threatened to falsely accuse him of rape in the past for whatever reason. Probablh will never know what it is unless they sue her for slander which it sounds like they might.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think you're just confused with definitions Daegor. Rape requires penetration according to the law... that "usually" you underlined isn't referring to the sexual intercourse itself but rather the forceful manner *and the sex of the victim. Rape is always sexual assault, but sexual assault isn't always rape. Nobody is arguing and dismissing sexual assault allegations, we're questioning why Gira's statement = rape so simply according to a few posts above. Found the answer now, thanks.

Edit: * Forgot to include this.

Actually, I think you're right, rereading it myself.

As such I dug a little deeper, the FBI defines rape as such:

The new Summary definition of Rape is: “Penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim.”

There is still a lot of room in there for a lot of different acts at varying degrees of... uh... subtlety. So my point #1 still stands, albeit altered. Though, regardless of how you define it, #1 is the least likely. One of them is likely lying or altering the truth (leaving #2 or #3)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually, I think you're right, rereading it myself.

As such I dug a little deeper, the FBI defines rape as such:

The new Summary definition of Rape is: “Penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim.”

There is still a lot of room in there for a lot of different acts at varying degrees of... uh... subtlety. So my point #1 still stands, albeit altered. Though, regardless of how you define it, #1 is the least likely. One of them is likely lying or altering the truth (leaving #2 or #3)

 

If they're saying different things that do not go together at all then yeah one of them is most likely lying. Your #2 and #3 are also confused. According to you he automatically sexually assaulted her and it might have included rape. Those are literally the only two options, hardly non-biased. I think it's best if you do bow out so the confusion is minimal from here on out and we can go back to waiting for answers and ignoring that singular asshole "everyone" for calling her a bitch.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I had a whole thing typed out and accidentally closed the tab, fuuuuu

 

I'm not typing it out again, I don't care enough.  My main points, super boiled down were:

  1. Nothing but love for you Shelbs, I'm just chatting here
  2. My assumption of a minimum of sexual assault was based off the fact that if anything happened against her will (potentially even if she said yes at the time) it would be sexual assault.  He said something did happen, but it wasn't rape.  Further to that, she claimed to be unconscious, something he didn't refute.
  3. We're likely not to receive any further information via public channels, unless it goes to court.  And it probably won't since it's been way too long since the incident to prove anything.

I will take your advice, Shelbs, and bow out though.  I only came back to clarify my post when requested, I did that (over the course of two additional posts).  And this really really is the wrong forum/thread for this discussion.

 

 

Mods, I might suggest that this thread be temporary locked to force the discussion to redirect to the thread in Everything Else.  What does everyone else think?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

He said something did happen, but it wasn't rape.

This is where I think you're confused. He said something consensual was about to happen and that it did not because he chose to stop things.. He never anywhere said that anything actually happened.

Edit: sorry to post in here again. To EE!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...
  • 6 months later...
  • 2 months later...
  • Derek™ changed the title to Swans Hype: 2022 Edition

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×

AdBlock Detected

spacer.png

We noticed that you're using an adBlocker

Yes, I'll whitelist