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Old vs new?


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So I am in the market for a new turntable. I was wondering if I should go with a brand new one or a reatored "vintage" modle. I have a dual 1229q that needs restoration, maybe $200 to make it like new.

Or I could buy one of those new pro-ject turntables... I'm now sure which is the smarter investment? Any opinions? Thanks ding dongs

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You can find more info on the old vs. new debate in this thread, stickied at the top of the forum. It's really up to you, but it boils down to this: If you've got the knowledge and the time, and you're willing to potentially waste money, you can get a seriously killer vintage setup for less than it might cost to put together a comparable new one (but it's likely that you'll get burned on a few vintage purchases). On the other hand, you can buy new - almost everyone here will speak volumes for the Pro-Ject Debut Carbon - and have a ready-to-roll setup without the vintage headache, for maybe some more money.

 

We have some resident audiophiles who will recommend comparable tables to the Carbon depending on the rest of your setup. Guys like slinch, kannibal and ajxd know what works best with what, so one of them might come in here and give their two cents on that matter. 

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I'm not new to home audio or turntables. I've been using used mid-level turntables for the last 18 years.

So new always huh? So having that dual restored would just mean it might crap out in a year or so, but those pro-ject TT should be good for a long while? I don't like the look of them or the having to change the speed manually. (Lazy maybe?)

What would be the actual downside of having a dual restored by one of those people

Who specialize in dual?

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A lot depends on your motives.

 

If you are having something restored to use and keep because you like it then the money is irrelevant, but if you are doing it as an investment then you have to be lucky to find something that isn't thought of as good now but will be in the future.

 

This does depend on the level of refurbishment as well, Most refurbishments on equipment of this type rely on it being fundamentally mechanically sound to start with as a lot of the mechanics are no longer available.

 

As to your Dual they are not really known for high end quality although they are perfectly competent and they are dependable. I'm also not a big fan of the Debut Carbon as I think the comparable Rega is better

 

It's your money so anything you read on here should probably just reinforce the decision I expect you've already made.

 

Old vs New in general also depends on a lot, it depends on your engineering prowess, your hifi knowledge, your hifi experience, the original quality of the item, the condition of the item etc. etc. So it's a question that can't be answered easily.

 

I love old and I love new, actually I just love hifi really, I just wish I'd bought all the old B&O turntables I'd been offered over the years, they're still crap and I wouldn't actually use one again but they do have a value now for some reason.

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New. Always.

I'd disagree. You can find some killer "vintage" gear for a great price if you know where to look and have an idea of what you want.

I have an ARC pre that would probably fall under the "vintage" category. Paid $1k for it but it performs comparable to components today that retail for much more.

Also, if you buy from the right companies they will still service the product. Example being The aforementioned ARC.

I understand not wanting to deal with the potential headache of older gear but I wouldn't tell anyone to completely rule it out.

Instead, I think you have to know yourself. If you know you won't be into researching and having to trouble shoot things on your own then vintage probably isn't for you. If you're ok with that and like to have gear that might give you more bang for the buck then I recommend doing more research.

At the end of the day. Audio is fun.

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I agree it is fun, I'm not trying to

Get 100% audiophile sound. I listen to punk mostly so I'm not sure how good you need bad religion or the Menzingers to sound. I like the look of the dual.... But I don't want to invest a couple hundred bucks in something to have it crap out.... I'll flip a coin maybe?

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I'd disagree. You can find some killer "vintage" gear for a great price if you know where to look and have an idea of what you want.

I have an ARC pre that would probably fall under the "vintage" category. Paid $1k for it but it performs comparable to components today that retail for much more.

Also, if you buy from the right companies they will still service the product. Example being The aforementioned ARC.

I understand not wanting to deal with the potential headache of older gear but I wouldn't tell anyone to completely rule it out.

Instead, I think you have to know yourself. If you know you won't be into researching and having to trouble shoot things on your own then vintage probably isn't for you. If you're ok with that and like to have gear that might give you more bang for the buck then I recommend doing more research.

At the end of the day. Audio is fun.

 

Yup

 

Don't get me wrong if something is new then it has no wear so I get why people don't like to take the risk but the vintage option should always be considered because if something is well engineered and looked after that good engineering doesn't go away with time.

 

Turntables are a very good case in point for this, when vinyl started to loose out to CD a lot of the crap turntables just ended up being thrown away but if someone had spent a large pile of cash on a decent turntable they tended to hang on to it and just store them away.

 

There's nothing new in turntable design so if you have a 20 or 30 year old turntable that was good then it's still good now.

 

the only thing in hifi that has really advanced in manufacturing that far is speakers.

 

Having people who know what they are working on always helps especially with something as complex and engineering heavy as a turntable

 

You can also be lucky though. I found an Ariston RD11s turntable with an SME 309 arm on it in a dumpster earlier this year (yes there is no helping some people) which works perfectly and sounds superb and you would have to go a very long way up the tree's of a lot of current turntable manufacturers to better it. The fact it survived it's trip into the dumpster is a testament to the build quality of it and the stupidity of the assumption of just because it's old its not good.

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the question is...which person needs the help?  the one who tossed a functioning turntable or the one who's digging around in dumpsters? hmmm...

 

Good point well made, although it didn't take any digging as I was on a trip to the local dump after a clear out and it was just poking out and needed to come home with me.

 

Google Ariston RD11s and SME309 and you will see just how ignorant the person throwing it away actually was.

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Yes it has progressed but that doesn't always equate to better.

You can go to any hifi community and will find a mix of people using new and vintage equipment. There isn't a right or wrong answer on this.

A lot of the circuits being used in today's retail place are the same that were used 30 years ago but have been modded etc.

To me that is the best part of this hobby. Rarely will you find a "right" answer and instead usually find a host of opinions.

OP. Rather than asking which to go with, I'd suggest you figure out a budget and then look at your options. new maybe the way to go or in your particular budget you may find more bang for your buck with something "vintage."

Edit: just looked at the OP and saw he mentioned the vintage table and price point. My bad. Scratch my last paragraph. I don't know a lot about that table but would recommend you read up on it and then the project TT and

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Yes it has progressed but that doesn't always equate to better.

You can go to any hifi community and will find a mix of people using new and vintage equipment. There isn't a right or wrong answer on this.

A lot of the circuits being used in today's retail place are the same that were used 30 years ago but have been modded etc.

To me that is the best part of this hobby. Rarely will you find a "right" answer and instead usually find a host of opinions.

OP. Rather than asking which to go with, I'd suggest you figure out a budget and then look at your options. new maybe the way to go or in your particular budget you may find more bang for your buck with something "vintage."

Edit: just looked at the OP and saw he mentioned the vintage table and price point. My bad. Scratch my last paragraph. I don't know a lot about that table but would recommend you read up on it and then the project TT and

All very true although and you would be amazed how little has changed fundamentaly.

Although there are some absolutes like the Crosley and all its ilk are the spawn of the devil

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I think you can get relatively good sound out of vintage tables/equipment. But my one main argument is still this: audio technology has progressed over 30 years.

Im a magpie so have a lot of good turntables but to get anywhere near bettering any number of the 30 year old turntables I have I would have to spend quite heavily into four figure territory with a brand new turntable, this has more to do with the quality of the turntables I own than the age.

I've tried the Pepsi challenge with quite a few of the current high end and my own vintage favourites more than a few times and the results so far have always been the same, of course there is personal preference in there but as I've said before once you get to a certain level there isn't really better or worse just different which is true old or new.

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