slinch Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Patriotism is for suckers... Though now that you mention it, I live in a country with a total population of 2 million and this place still produced a table that's widely considered to be one of the best in the world. Doesn't make it any more affordable though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajxd Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Looks like a gold plated Audioquest brush What's the brand of the table? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slinch Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Sounds like one too. It's a Kuzma Stabi XL4. Currently retails in US for around $40k with the AirLine tangential arm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antoniofhowe Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 I have an unfounded aversion to MMF products. Not really sure where it comes from. They just all sort of look cheap to me. Maybe it's because so many of their tables are that gloss black. looks like a real dust/smudge-magnet. I have the same aversion. I saw an MMF in one of the hi-fi shops I frequent that was in for repairs and it just looked cheap. MMF was on my list when I was initially getting back into vinyl and when I saw that I remember thinking I was glad I didn't go that route. Ever since then I pass over anything MMF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antoniofhowe Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 How about we just keep it simple Merica > Everyone Fixed it for you: Canada > Merica > Everyone else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobNY Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Out of the tables mentioned so far I think the Marantz gives you the most for your money. I have had the Marantz set up at work for the past few weeks. Its a solid table. I really like the Satisfy tone arm and with the included Virtuoso cartridge it sounds great. I have recently set up a Concept with the Verify arm and Concept MM cartridge. I unfortunately didn't get to spend much time listening to it, but it did sound nice although I would see myself wanting a cartridge upgrade pretty quickly. I could live with the Virtuoso on the Marantz until it wears out and be perfectly happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobNY Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Forgot to add. I dont have any experience with the RP3 or the Music Hall, so I dont know how they compare with the ones I mentioned. I have used the Pro-Ject Xpirience Classic and it is also one worth considering. Well built and sounds real good with the included cartridge. Also looks killer in the Olive wood finish. Hopefully you will be able to listen to as many as possible before you make a purchase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpingBean Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 I was in your exact shoes about a year ago. I loved my Carbon but I was ready for something more, I had just bought my mac amplifier and suddenly was in a panic to bring the rest of my components up to snuff. Originally I was largely considering the RP3/Traveler/Marantz/Concept range of tables much as you are now. I go to school in NYC and one day I got an email that VPI would be showing their new direct drive table at stereo exchange down in the village, and Michael Fremer (if you don't know who that is, use your google) would be doing a seminar there.After his seminar on turntable setup I stuck around to ask him for advice on what table would be a good fit for me. I told him I had the carbon and was thinking of upgrading to the Traveler. He stated that in his opinion the carbon was a "damn good" table and that the upgrade really wouldn't be a huge one. He said that if I really wanted a significant enough upgrade to justify the trouble and expense, I should look at the VPI Scout. I also asked about the clearaudio/VPI/Rega differences and he broke it down like this. He said the Clearaudio is a "softer table" that does well with classical and jazz, but it does not have a ton of dynamic punch or heft. The Rega sounds exciting (partially because most regas run just slightly fast), but isn't always the most detailed. The Scout he said had more impact due to the huge aluminum platter and overall weight, and he seemed to think that worked better for more varied types of music.Ultimately I took his advice and bought a Scout 1.1 on B-stock from Music Direct. I know it's over your budget, but I think he was right in that, yes the RP3 or Traveler will sound better, but are they really going to sound THAT much better? I think it would be better in my opinion to save up a little longer and go for the Scout or RP6. You will see a much bigger difference/upgrade in your sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tardcore Posted January 23, 2015 Author Share Posted January 23, 2015 thanks for the input. I guess my budget isn't completely inflexible. It's mostly about what makes sense. I only have about $500 each into my amp and speakers. so setting a budget around $1000 seemed appropriate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpingBean Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 thanks for the input. I guess my budget isn't completely inflexible. It's mostly about what makes sense. I only have about $500 each into my amp and speakers. so setting a budget around $1000 seemed appropriate. You only paid 500 for the PM8004? Damn thats a good deal. I think personally it'd be safer to upgrade slowly to your "arrived" components rather than upgrade everything now then upgrade everything again in a few years. Those Marantz/Monitor components are fine products and they'll sound even better if you feed a high end source through them. Any real upgrade you make is only going to make everything sound better, so why not just get a higher end table now and live with that for a while. No one is going to make fun of you for using a 2k table with a .5k amp. The british do that shit all the time because of their "source first" philosophy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannibal Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 thanks for the input. I guess my budget isn't completely inflexible. It's mostly about what makes sense. I only have about $500 each into my amp and speakers. so setting a budget around $1000 seemed appropriate. jumpingbean has a good point (he also owns a VPI table so he's legit). I was in your shoes once. I was looking in your budget for an upgrade to a debut III. I ended up going all out on a VPI classic. Never regretted a moment of it, even when I realized I needed to upgrade from my $800 integrated and $500 speakers to match the Classic. It was a huge upgrade to the sound. It might be a good idea to make a bigger jump as suggested. Just know that you will want to upgrade the rest of your system, some records you use to think sounded fine don't sound so good anymore, and records you thought were fine will sound more worn than you remember. Its so awesome, though. Music sounds more tangible and real, and it's beatiful, and truly moves my soul when I hear something I love. It's a disease, and I encourage you all to get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannibal Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 You only paid 500 for the PM8004? Damn thats a good deal. I think personally it'd be safer to upgrade slowly to your "arrived" components rather than upgrade everything now then upgrade everything again in a few years. Those Marantz/Monitor components are fine products and they'll sound even better if you feed a high end source through them. Any real upgrade you make is only going to make everything sound better, so why not just get a higher end table now and live with that for a while. No one is going to make fun of you for using a 2k table with a .5k amp. The british do that shit all the time because of their "source first" philosophy. My VPI Classic was first and then I upgraded everything else piece by piece. Totally cool journey that allowed me to really hear how each part was changing. Plus over time I have a killer system that I rarely think of upgrading/improving further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpingBean Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 jumpingbean has a good point (he also owns a VPI table so he's legit). I was in your shoes once. I was looking in your budget for an upgrade to a debut III. I ended up going all out on a VPI classic. Never regretted a moment of it, even when I realized I needed to upgrade from my $800 integrated and $500 speakers to match the Classic. It was a huge upgrade to the sound. It might be a good idea to make a bigger jump as suggested. Just know that you will want to upgrade the rest of your system, some records you use to think sounded fine don't sound so good anymore, and records you thought were fine will sound more worn than you remember. Its so awesome, though. Music sounds more tangible and real, and it's beatiful, and truly moves my soul when I hear something I love. It's a disease, and I encourage you all to get it. Actually my experience has been slightly different. When I changed tables I went from a 2m blue to a Dynavector 10x5 and not only was it a huge sound improvement, but it was actually a tad more forgiving than the ortofon. Mostly this was in terms of record condition, I just heard more surface noise with the 2m than i did with the dynavector. Not to say it muddled anything, everything sounds clearer, but I just got way more "fun" out of my music. I think the big contributor to that was the more defined bass and richer midrange (things the 2m series is light on). Another factor was that the better unipivot tonearm is able to reach much deeper into the groove of the record than the fixed gimbled design of the pro-ject. Its able to get past the damage and tap that sweet virgin vinyl. Yes many of my records do not pass the audiophile test. I'm amazed when i put on sonically splendid records like stuff from Analogue Productions or MoFi, but I also don't wince when I turn to more lo-fi fare like Skeletal Lighting or Topshelf releases. A good stereo will bring out the maximum potential of each recording and just because that potential is low on certain recordings doesnt mean they will become less enjoyable. I think about it like this: My so-so records sound a little better on my new setup, but my amazing records leap to whole new heights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangeJoe Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 That's a pretty good possibility. I actually listed the turntable on Craig's List a while ago as stock thinking that I might swap over to something like the Carbon DC (MF sent me a 20% off coupon) and keep the platter. I got a hit on the listing this morning, if I wind up with a spare platter, I'll let you know. Thanks man, just pm me if you end up with it, appreciate it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tardcore Posted January 23, 2015 Author Share Posted January 23, 2015 You only paid 500 for the PM8004? Damn thats a good deal. I think personally it'd be safer to upgrade slowly to your "arrived" components rather than upgrade everything now then upgrade everything again in a few years. Those Marantz/Monitor components are fine products and they'll sound even better if you feed a high end source through them. Any real upgrade you make is only going to make everything sound better, so why not just get a higher end table now and live with that for a while. No one is going to make fun of you for using a 2k table with a .5k amp. The british do that shit all the time because of their "source first" philosophy. Yeah, I wasn't really looking to upgrade but keep half an eye open for good deals and I saw a mint PM8004 on eBay for $500 shipped buy it now. Not sure what the deal was but it was in perfect condition. The accessory bag/remote hadn't even been opened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allenh Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Patriotism is for suckers... Though now that you mention it, I live in a country with a total population of 2 million and this place still produced a table that's widely considered to be one of the best in the world. Doesn't make it any more affordable though Kuzma Stogi Reference now that's an arm I wish I hadn't sold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney Crosley Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Damn, all this talk of upgrading and quality turntables is making me feel inadequate thinking about getting a Carbon or RP1....I'm totally worried I'll just get the itch to take it a step or two up in a few years.... And also, thank you for all of your input. This board has been a great resource for learning all kinds of details about hifi equipment that I could maybe someday afford. Some other forums for equipment sometimes feel like they start at $5000 systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tardcore Posted January 24, 2015 Author Share Posted January 24, 2015 update: I unexpectedly came across an open box Marantz 15s1 for $1k, so I pulled the trigger. not really thrilled about the open boxedness but if it winds up being sketchy, I have 60 days to return. I figured for $500 off is worth a shot. It puts me in a good spot to join the VPI club in a year or so without eating much of the cost, if any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobNY Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Congrats on your purchase. $1k for that is a no brainer. I'm sure you will be very happy with it. Please be sure to post your thoughts after you get it all set up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajxd Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 update: I unexpectedly came across an open box Marantz 15s1 for $1k, so I pulled the trigger. not really thrilled about the open boxedness but if it winds up being sketchy, I have 60 days to return. I figured for $500 off is worth a shot. It puts me in a good spot to join the VPI club in a year or so without eating much of the cost, if any. Damn good deal. Where'd you find that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tardcore Posted January 24, 2015 Author Share Posted January 24, 2015 Music Direct. They're located only a few hours away, so if I have to return it, shouldn't be a big deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannibal Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 update: I unexpectedly came across an open box Marantz 15s1 for $1k, so I pulled the trigger. not really thrilled about the open boxedness but if it winds up being sketchy, I have 60 days to return. I figured for $500 off is worth a shot. It puts me in a good spot to join the VPI club in a year or so without eating much of the cost, if any. This does not please me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajxd Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Hahaha At $1k Ive been looking at my credit card... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antoniofhowe Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 update: I unexpectedly came across an open box Marantz 15s1 for $1k, so I pulled the trigger. not really thrilled about the open boxedness but if it winds up being sketchy, I have 60 days to return. I figured for $500 off is worth a shot. It puts me in a good spot to join the VPI club in a year or so without eating much of the cost, if any. Can't wait to hear your thoughts. I was in the market for a new turntable a couple of months ago and really wanted the 15S1 but couldn't find it in Canada, went with an RP6 w/ Ortofon 2M Black instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajxd Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Screw it. Bought one too. I talked to my friend about it, he says if I hate it, he'll take it. $1k is too good to pass on. Tardcore, Sidney Crosley and mesi 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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