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Ryam Adams - PAX AM Records


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1 hour ago, OneThreeOneTwo said:

Lol I'm sorry you don't see how bi-polar tier delusional you're being here tbh. You're asking me to grow up but also telling me to go chide everyone in a Bowie thread because you're in your feels about people trash-talking your fave artist. Peak loser achieved.

Imagine having an adult grasp on reality/causation/arrow-of-time enough to realize that Adams' 38th public meltdown is happening presently and that these sad attempts at whataboutism doesn't do shit to obscure of deflect from that?

Like I said, be consistent and go hop into every thread of every artist known to have done something above the pale yourself first and foremost or forever STFU. Lead by example if you want any one to do as you say. Understand?

Haha. I'm not really telling you to go chide everyone there. Jeez. I'm just saying that you're probably one of those people who aren't being consistent when it comes to criticism of artists.

 

There's a certain herd mentality going on and people pile it on when they see others jumping on someone doing something immoral or assholey, but it's being done so disproportionately and selectively. To be honest, Ryan seems like someone who is really bad at handling relationships. Is that bad? Of course. Is it something worth having such hate being thrown at him? I don't think so. Like I mentioned, he didn't murder or rape, and yea he did something shitty like hitting on the 15 year old, but it seemed like he probably stopped once he found out or suspected as such. 

 

You talk about me being in my feels but look at how you're typing here. Are you twelve? 'Peak loser'... Seriously? Lol.

 

Also, he's not one of my favourite artists - I've only really heard 5 or 6 of his albums.

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I assume everyone here advocating for giving Ryan space to "heal" also don't believe most of the allegations against him, which he and this total fluff piece are obviously trying to discredit, since they attempt to poke holes in most of the stories. 

 

That should be your disclaimer. Otherwise, I see no reason at this point, why he couldn't acknowledge the pain expressed in the NYT article, apologize for it, and promise to do better. Some might not accept that, but I bet many would. It would at least sound sincere. Instead, it sounds like he believes he did nothing wrong, and it seems there are lots of excuses being made to hold that up, without any evidence to the contrary. 

 

"Hey, Mandy Moore could have gone and picked up the guitar anytime she wanted if she thought she didn't need me," doesn't really satisfy a whole lot. 

Edited by mr. sincere
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4 hours ago, brandy said:

Haha. Don't be a child. Read what I said again. I'm not defending his actions, but questioning why everyone here is jumping on Ryan Adams when Bowie is still praised as a genius despite having sex with multiple teenagers. It's just hypocritical. I don't think people here would be jumping on Bowie or Chris Brown with as much vitriol and hatred should there be threads about them.

I talk mad shit about Bowie and Chris Brown, the whataboutism is kind of a misplaced straw man here

4 hours ago, brandy said:

I'm not defending his actions, but [...] No use to just keep pounding him selectively and repeatedly because he did something that doesn't fit your/our moral compass 

The joke writes itself

38 minutes ago, mr. sincere said:

I see no reason at this point, why he couldn't acknowledge the pain expressed in the NYT article, apologize for it, and promise to do better. Some might not accept that, but I bet many would. It would at least sound sincere. Instead, it sounds like he believes he did nothing wrong, and it seems there are lots of excuses being made to hold that up, without any evidence to the contrary. 

 

"Hey, Mandy Moore could have gone and picked up the guitar anytime she wanted if she thought she didn't need me," doesn't really satisfy a whole lot. 

Nailed it. People who want to improve their character can do so, but the key word there is want. If you don't actually have intentions of changing your behavior, then you aren't "healing".

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My stance is based on an assumption of actual mental health disorders: Narcissistic personality disorder or Bipolar disorder, or something similar. However, I am not a Doctor.

I suppose my point was that it is one thing to operate for many years (your whole adult life) in broken and destructive ways, while being ignorant to hurt and damage you cause.  And because if your skewed reality

that the disorder causes, you don't see the error of your ways - until something like the NYT article, after which you can no longer claim ignorance. 

14 hours ago, OneThreeOneTwo said:

Some of us wish that the guy that self-pityingly (but also honestly) sung "Screw all my friends/They're all full of shit/With a smile on your face/And then do it again/I wish you would" over 20 years ago would have grown and matured out of that self-destructive behaviour, especially given the access to mental health that comes with money & fame.

Some of us don't sit around and justify or rationalize such behaviour in others. Some of us have decided to avoid being experts at enablement and don't confuse compassion with it. Some of us have grown the fuck up and expect others to do the same. *emoji shrug*

But I am speaking more about the stigma of mental health issues generally, and less specifically about Ryan Adams - justifying/rationalizing or enabling was not my intent, nor is it a hill i'm willing to die on. 

I would argue that having fame and money doesn't mean more access to mental health supports, though it should. More often than not, money & fame means that those around the rich and famous ignore and tolerate bad behaviour, and the warning signs go un-checked.  

 

13 hours ago, OneThreeOneTwo said:

And there are plenty of maladjusted young musicians who grow and age into mental wellness. Look at Nick Cave, Thom Yorke, Tom Waits, everyone in Depeche Mode, etc., etc. the list is long tbh so spare me the "genius and madness are bedfellows" argument. It's trite, and cliché AF.

12 hours ago, tape said:

Here's the thing: he clearly hasn't, and has no intention to. His behavior hasn't changed in 20 years and he shows no signs that he's likely to change.

 

A person who wants to heal, change, and grow will find a way to do it. A person who doesn't want to will find ways not to.

 

Also lol @ everyone but you being hyperbolic

8 hours ago, DecayToDeath said:

Nailed it. People who want to improve their character can do so, but the key word there is want. If you don't actually have intentions of changing your behavior, then you aren't "healing".

There are also a number of examples of downward spirals, suicides, overdoses, etc. and mental wellness isn't something one just 'grows into' - that is like telling someone with depression 'just cheer up' or someone with ADHD 'just try harder'. 

This part here I take issue with: "he clearly hasn't [changed], and has no intention to." A number of you claim to have insight into another's intentions and motivations based on -  what a couple articles you've read? 

And while I agree, real change takes buy-in - you have to want it. However, wanting to change isn't enough on its own. But I love the word 'intention' when speaking about this, intention is key.

 

9 hours ago, mr. sincere said:

I assume everyone here advocating for giving Ryan space to "heal" also don't believe most of the allegations against him, which he and this total fluff piece are obviously trying to discredit, since they attempt to poke holes in most of the stories. 

 

You assume incorrectly - and that is a dangerous and damaging assumption. I totally believe Mandy, Phoebe, Karen, and any of the others who have negative experiences with Ryan. That doesn't exclude me from thinking that Ryan is broken/damaged, and hoping he can heal, change, and become a good person.

 

 

Edited by Mars
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14 minutes ago, Mars said:

nd mental wellness isn't something one just 'grows into'

I literally gave you a list of artists who did precisely that. You even quoted me listing them. And yet your brain forces you to wipe them away from your reply, somehow. Like, what's your damage? In your bid to try to uphold Adams as a victim, you're going to callously dismiss all the musicians who've worked hard (in DM's case, including kicking heroin FFS) to achieve mental wellness? That's... Pathological avoidance of reality. That's a "you" problem. You should fix that. By talking to a professional.

 

14 minutes ago, Mars said:

This part here I take issue with: "he clearly hasn't [changed], and has no intention to." A number of you claim to have insight into another's intentions and motivations based on -  what a couple articles you've read? 

Again, you're being wilfully blind/obtuse. This is classic enablement you're practicing. It's so fucking toxic. Stop pretending you can minimize a clear pattern of reckless and toxic behaviour that's been documented over decades. Hell, why don't you take 15 minutes and browse every Pitchfork article detailing Adams many instances of public meltdowns rather than Doublethinking all those moments away, as if they never existed because it's easier for you to pretend, today, that none of it happened?

Edited by OneThreeOneTwo
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29 minutes ago, OneThreeOneTwo said:

I literally gave you a list of artists who did precisely that. You even quoted me listing them. And yet your brain forces you to wipe them away from your reply, somehow. Like, what's your damage? In your bid to try to uphold Adams as a victim, you're going to callously dismiss all the musicians who've worked hard (in DM's case, including kicking heroin FFS) to achieve mental wellness? That's... Pathological avoidance of reality. That's a "you" problem. You should fix that. By talking to a professional.

 

Again, you're being wilfully blind/obtuse. This is classic enablement you're practicing. It's so fucking toxic. Stop pretending you can minimize a clear pattern of reckless and toxic behaviour that's been documented over decades. Hell, why don't you take 15 minutes and browse every Pitchfork article detailing Adams many instances of public meltdowns rather than Doublethinking all those moments away, as if they never existed because it's easier for you to pretend, today, that none of it happened?

Let's just take a step back and not be so  argumentative. My brain didn't force me to 'wipe them away', nor did I disagree. Just for balance I pointed out that there are also artists that were not able to 'grow out' of a mental disorder. I am not trying to make Adams into a victim, and I haven't 'callously dismissed' anything. 

The part of your statement I disagree with is  "...who grow and age into mental wellness." I am sure that a lot of struggle, effort, and time went into their mental wellness, and I think if anything, you do them a disservice by presenting it as something as simple as 'growing into' it. 

 

What I am trying to do is present mental health issues in a way that is not black/white, victim/victimizer. I do speak with a professional,  I am not avoiding  reality, and I have not pretended that none of it happened.  Even re-reading my comments, I can't see the lens you are viewing me through.

What I do see is that you've disagreed with some opinions that I expressed, and now you are attacking me personally - which is the 'toxic' part of the exchange. While I will discuss ideas, I won't take part in your character attacks.

Edited by Mars
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9 hours ago, DecayToDeath said:

I talk mad shit about Bowie and Chris Brown, the whataboutism is kind of a misplaced straw man here

 

Well I apologise if I wasn't being clear enough. But I was referring not to YOU, but to people in general, or the music industry in general. When everyone drops Ryan but keep Chris Brown and celebrate Bowie, Jimmy Page, Jagger etc. then there seems to be something wrong, especially when they have done much worser things.

9 hours ago, DecayToDeath said:

The joke writes itself

Have no idea what you are on about, because like I said, I'm not defending his actions, as in I'm not saying it's right. I am saying that its wrong, but society as a whole needs to be consistent in how it treats people.

 

9 hours ago, DecayToDeath said:

Nailed it. People who want to improve their character can do so, but the key word there is want. If you don't actually have intentions of changing your behavior, then you aren't "healing".

Are you Ryan's friend? I'm not. I can't say for sure if he wants to or not, but I will not bash him based on just some articles.  Remember, they're just articles. They're written with clicks and view-counts in mind.

 

Again, all I'm calling for is some perspective here. He clearly is not a saint, and none of us are. And I would say a big chunk of the issues brought up in the NYT article boils down to the way he handles interpersonal relationships, such as him being a dick to Mandy. That's their relationship and its none of our businesses. He hasn't been proven to commit any crimes as well. He's a dick. That's it.

 

Also, kicking him when he has already been down and out leaves him no room to heal because he has to deal with this bullshit constantly rather than work on his own issues, especially so given his past history of struggle with mental illness. 

 

A similar case happened with James Alex (Beach Slang) recently and the band got completely cancelled. Hell, he had paranoid schizophrenia. That shit makes you completely unaware of who you are changing into.

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5 minutes ago, brandy said:

 

 

Again, all I'm calling for is some perspective here. He clearly is not a saint, and none of us are.

 

 

First of all, don't do this. It normalizes behavior like his. Can't give him a pass just because no one is perfect. At the risk of being #notallmen, you can't apples to apples peoples faults, errors, cruelties or crimes. 

 

9 minutes ago, brandy said:

And I would say a big chunk of the issues brought up in the NYT article boils down to the way he handles interpersonal relationships, such as him being a dick to Mandy. That's their relationship and its none of our businesses. He hasn't been proven to commit any crimes as well. He's a dick. That's it.

 

Second, this is REALLY minimizing what he is/was accused of. But at the end of the day, its the power dynamics, emotional manipulation, creepy behavior, and flat out mental abuse that people are taking issue with. I HOPE people are pointing this out in their daily lives and not just on twitter or some messageboard. If we want a better society we have to hold people accountable and thats what people seem to be doing with Ryan. 

12 minutes ago, brandy said:

Also, kicking him when he has already been down and out leaves him no room to heal because he has to deal with this bullshit constantly rather than work on his own issues, especially so given his past history of struggle with mental illness. 

 

 

this is bullshit, no one is dogging him when he's not in the news. He's the one writing letters to the daily Mail or agreeing to interviews with LA magazines. And when he pops up, he wants the credit for doing the time, but doesn't want to put in the work. There has been no sincere or thorough mea culpa from him. That article makes it look like he's made some strides, but then when you see his IG meltdowns, you have to question whats really real. 

Do I hope he owns this, tries to make himself better, and be an advocate so he could come back? Absolutely. He's crazy talented. But if you are gonna treat people like shit (which has always been his pattern), do minimal leg work, want the credit and then whine that its others people fault thats keeping you down and not own your own shortcomings, well, you're gonna get called out every time you surface.

 

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Am I the only one who just cares about the music? I am a strong believer that art is separate from the artist. I don't listen to Ryan Adams' music or anyone else's music for that matter because I like and/or dislike the artist behind it. I listen to it for the ART. 

 

Clearly, everyone here isn't even arguing about his art/music. They're arguing about HIM. Who gives a shit about what the fuck this dude does in his personal life. I didn't care before and I don't care now. Again, that's not why I listen to his or anyone else's music. 

 

What are you guys doing before you check out a new artist?? Going to their wiki page or digging deep to try to figure out if they are a good enough person in their personal life so that you can feel better about listening to their music or enjoying their art??? Are you?? No - didn't think so. 

 

Hopefully I can check back on this thread and it's for a pre-order link for Blackhole. 

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He writes music heavily informed by his life and in particular his relationships. I mean, his whole shtick is being the heartbroken troubadour.

 

Its fine to ignore the personal stuff, and if you can bury your head like an ostrich and not know anything about him and focus only on the music, go for it. More power to you. But if you even know the story, I don't know how you can untangle the two.

 

I don't think people need a resume/wiki check to get into an artist, but if you hear or story or 2 its not unreasonable to have it impact how you view them.

 

 

Edited by timsimmons
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Putting aside that its important to keep talking about about patterns of abusive behavior in order to root it out, I think people keep bringing it up whenever theres news about Ryan because many were huge fans, and when this story broke, they felt betrayed. And on top of it, he's not getting better. 

 

 

 

 

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I think theres 2 types in this thread, those who are bummed/disgusted and don't want to support him and those who know its bad/don't give a shit about it, but want to find a way to move past it, to still be a fan. Both are pushing against the other for different reasons. 

 

 

And I'm not saying the latter group is OK with any of it, but I do think they are making concessions to personal responsibility or at least their empathy, in order to continually enjoy something and not be displaced. 

 

 

Edited by timsimmons
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1 hour ago, sonumbertwelve said:

Am I the only one who just cares about the music? I am a strong believer that art is separate from the artist. I don't listen to Ryan Adams' music or anyone else's music for that matter because I like and/or dislike the artist behind it. I listen to it for the ART. 

 

Clearly, everyone here isn't even arguing about his art/music. They're arguing about HIM. Who gives a shit about what the fuck this dude does in his personal life. I didn't care before and I don't care now. Again, that's not why I listen to his or anyone else's music. 

 

What are you guys doing before you check out a new artist?? Going to their wiki page or digging deep to try to figure out if they are a good enough person in their personal life so that you can feel better about listening to their music or enjoying their art??? Are you?? No - didn't think so. 

 

Hopefully I can check back on this thread and it's for a pre-order link for Blackhole. 

We all have a different line of what an artist does in their personal life where it overshadows the art. That doesn't mean you research everything about an artist before deciding to listen but if something comes to light, it's up to you if that is something you can set aside while enjoying the art. 

 

Sometimes that happens before you listen. For example, Charles Manson has a record out. Will you support that art knowing what you know? If tomorrow you found out Ryan Adams was a child murderer, could you still listen to the art? It's your line to draw and the line is wavy. For music you really love, your tolerance is higher and if your introduction to an artist is that they're an awful human being, it's easier to dismiss.

 

I too separate the art from the artist but I'm not going to pretend that there's nothing the artist can do in their personal life that will ruin art I once enjoyed. Knowing what I know now, Cold Roses still reminds me of a great time in my life. If Ryan Adams collected skulls of kids he murdered, I would no longer enjoy Cold Roses in the same way I do now. 

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22 minutes ago, deftbarley said:

We all have a different line of what an artist does in their personal life where it overshadows the art. That doesn't mean you research everything about an artist before deciding to listen but if something comes to light, it's up to you if that is something you can set aside while enjoying the art. 

 

Sometimes that happens before you listen. For example, Charles Manson has a record out. Will you support that art knowing what you know? If tomorrow you found out Ryan Adams was a child murderer, could you still listen to the art? It's your line to draw and the line is wavy. For music you really love, your tolerance is higher and if your introduction to an artist is that they're an awful human being, it's easier to dismiss.

 

I too separate the art from the artist but I'm not going to pretend that there's nothing the artist can do in their personal life that will ruin art I once enjoyed. Knowing what I know now, Cold Roses still reminds me of a great time in my life. If Ryan Adams collected skulls of kids he murdered, I would no longer enjoy Cold Roses in the same way I do now. 

I respect this. I appreciate your level headed response.

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I was a diehard RA fan, but after Jacksonville city nights,  albums and 7” ‘s of sub par stuff along with the allegations just put the nail in the coffin for me.  I sold my entire collection aside from Strangers almanac.

 

Watching him whore himself out on Instagram is pretty sad.  All that instamerch is just awful too.  

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4 hours ago, sonumbertwelve said:

What are you guys doing before you check out a new artist?? Going to their wiki page or digging deep to try to figure out if they are a good enough person in their personal life so that you can feel better about listening to their music or enjoying their art??? Are you?? No - didn't think so.

I like to collect DNA and mail off to 23andMe to see if any of their ancestors were racists or pedophiles personally

 

4 hours ago, timsimmons said:

Its fine to ignore the personal stuff, and if you can bury your head like an ostrich and not know anything about him and focus only on the music, go for it. More power to you. But if you even know the story, I don't know how you can untangle the two.

Easy

 

 

 

 

No point in arguing with 1312, that guy is a brick wall of grad-level knowledge and enlightenment.

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3 minutes ago, timsimmons said:

I mean, if you want to go that hard for post 2005 Ryan Adams, go for it dude. 

I'm just laughing at Tommy always being on the side of the accused asshole in every argument on this website. Almost as if he's had some trouble in the matter himself... 🤔 Solidarity? 

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