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Ryam Adams - PAX AM Records


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Yeah, I have complex opinions on the matter, but don't really have the energy to write it all out. the tl;dr version is basically:

Good or bad, right or wrong, Ryan hit rock bottom. If he is able to actually work through his shit, and get help, I think it is possible for him to come out a good/better person. This is based on me believing that he has legitimate mental health issues, and not that he is just an asshole who chose to do shitty things because he is a shitty person. 

Some of you guys are ruthless, and frankly I am sad for you. The world is rarely so black and white, and we are all complex flawed people. I hope if any of you truly screw something up in your life, those around you have a more compassionate and forgiving attitude toward you.

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You’re right it’s not black and white. 
 

but also, this is not recent behavior. Since whiskeytown he’s demonstrated time and time again a pattern of toxic behavior. There are countless examples that come to mind from my almost 20 years of hardcore fandom. For a long time, me and certainly others wrote it off as rock n roll assholish behavior. But through the spectrum of the NYT article, it’s clear that it’s bigger and more ingrained than that. 
 

he does need help. I hope he truly makes amends and works to better himself (it’s not done after 2 years of radio silence and an apology in the daily mail (of all papers). A redemption story is one everyone loves. I hope he gets one. I’m just not optimistic. 

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34 minutes ago, Mars said:

Some of you guys are ruthless, and frankly I am sad for you. The world is rarely so black and white, and we are all complex flawed people. I hope if any of you truly screw something up in your life, those around you have a more compassionate and forgiving attitude toward you.

This. The new social flogging is (imo) sometimes worse than any jail punishment someone could receive. Take it easy fellas. People really have strong opinions over events they were never present for nor have all the details for.

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9 minutes ago, satoshi said:

This. The new social flogging is (imo) sometimes worse than any jail punishment someone could receive. Take it easy fellas. People really have strong opinions over events they were never present for nor have all the details for.

Its a bloodsport more it is any true moral outrage if you ask me.  His actions definitely warrant condemnation, for sure.  However in my experience, we seldom hold our friends, families, co-workers or ourselves to these same standards.  There's just something enjoyable about destroying something or somebody.  

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Mob mentality at its best. There have been much worse musicians; only thing is they haven't had long articles written about them. 

 

Ryan certainly isn't an angel. He's probably fucked in some ways just like many of us are. But we need to look at ourselves and ask if we have the same attitude or disdain towards someone like Elvis / Bowie / Chris Brown / Pete Wentz, or are people like Jesse Lacey and Ryan suffering disproportionately because of the time we are in.

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42 minutes ago, brandy said:

people like Jesse Lacey and Ryan suffering disproportionately because of the time we are in.

oh for sure man I feel soooOOOooOOoo sorry for them, being born 50 years too late to be able to openly hit on and/or fuck 15 year old girls like Elvis was able to get away with,

 

foh

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1 hour ago, timsimmons said:

You’re right it’s not black and white. 
 

but also, this is not recent behavior. Since whiskeytown he’s demonstrated time and time again a pattern of toxic behavior. There are countless examples that come to mind from my almost 20 years of hardcore fandom. For a long time, me and certainly others wrote it off as rock n roll assholish behavior. But through the spectrum of the NYT article, it’s clear that it’s bigger and more ingrained than that. 
 

he does need help. I hope he truly makes amends and works to better himself (it’s not done after 2 years of radio silence and an apology in the daily mail (of all papers). A redemption story is one everyone loves. I hope he gets one. I’m just not optimistic. 

Yeah this is the mentality I've got at the moment, not only has it been a long-standing pattern, but all the recent press with him is just him begging for pity without truly copping responsibility. Classic move on an abuser's part to be victimizing themselves in times like these. He's not sorry he did anything, he's sorry he got caught.

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3 hours ago, timsimmons said:

You’re right it’s not black and white. 
 

but also, this is not recent behavior. Since whiskeytown he’s demonstrated time and time again a pattern of toxic behavior. There are countless examples that come to mind from my almost 20 years of hardcore fandom. For a long time, me and certainly others wrote it off as rock n roll assholish behavior. But through the spectrum of the NYT article, it’s clear that it’s bigger and more ingrained than that. 
 

he does need help. I hope he truly makes amends and works to better himself (it’s not done after 2 years of radio silence and an apology in the daily mail (of all papers). A redemption story is one everyone loves. I hope he gets one. I’m just not optimistic. 

 

1 hour ago, DecayToDeath said:

Yeah this is the mentality I've got at the moment, not only has it been a long-standing pattern, but all the recent press with him is just him begging for pity without truly copping responsibility. Classic move on an abuser's part to be victimizing themselves in times like these. He's not sorry he did anything, he's sorry he got caught.

I get that it has been long-standing, and from an outside perspective it appears as rock n roll asshole. . . and perhaps that is all it amounts to. Another take is that those with a mental disorder or atypical neurological condition may go undiagnosed for a large part of their adult life, lacking a self-awareness about their (often symptomatic) behaviors.

'Getting caught' is a loaded term, and certainly it is the catalyst in this situation, but that and the subsequent downward spiral would certainly trigger some self-awareness.

He is definitely depressed and self-pitying, but I don't think that is the same as making himself out as the victim. Reality often differs depending on your lens, and most of our lenses only show us part of the story. 

 

"truly copping responsibility" - what would this look like to you? And how are you sure that he hasn't?

 

edit to say I hope no one interprets what I am saying a defense for or denial of shitty behaviour.

 

Edited by Mars
clarification
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Some of us wish that the guy that self-pityingly (but also honestly) sung "Screw all my friends/They're all full of shit/With a smile on your face/And then do it again/I wish you would" over 20 years ago would have grown and matured out of that self-destructive behaviour, especially given the access to mental health that comes with money & fame.

Some of us don't sit around and justify or rationalize such behaviour in others. Some of us have decided to avoid being experts at enablement and don't confuse compassion with it. Some of us have grown the fuck up and expect others to do the same. *emoji shrug*

Edited by OneThreeOneTwo
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aha yes, we expect all our favorite musicians to be grown-up,  mature,  model citizens. Usually the most creative people are also the most fucked up people. Ego-mania and a strong disconnection from reality is usually what drives these types to perfection and pushing artistic boundaries

 

 

also, if the phrase "500-plus year-old toxic Protestant legacy" is part of your argument, I highly doubt you've *grown the fuck up*

Edited by satoshi
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27 minutes ago, satoshi said:

also, if the phrase "500-plus year-old toxic Protestant legacy" is part of your argument, I highly doubt you've *grown the fuck up*

Really? Are you actually this deluded, to think a grad-level formulation like that is in any real way an indication of me having not grown up? Precisely, how?

Maybe consider the fact that you're exemplifying the very same persecution-complex I've described, and maybe are not self-aware enough to understand that, before you post your obviously triggered rebuttal? One of the symptoms of persecution complex is getting  inordinately triggered on behalf of others (that you might have a misplaced overidentification for).

And there are plenty of maladjusted young musicians who grow and age into mental wellness. Look at Nick Cave, Thom Yorke, Tom Waits, everyone in Depeche Mode, etc., etc. the list is long tbh so spare me the "genius and madness are bedfellows" argument. It's trite, and cliché AF.
Nothing is more immature than still being hung up on/a mark for that 27 Club mythos.

Edited by OneThreeOneTwo
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5 hours ago, tape said:

oh for sure man I feel soooOOOooOOoo sorry for them, being born 50 years too late to be able to openly hit on and/or fuck 15 year old girls like Elvis was able to get away with,

 

foh

Haha. Don't be a child. Read what I said again. I'm not defending his actions, but questioning why everyone here is jumping on Ryan Adams when Bowie is still praised as a genius despite having sex with multiple teenagers. It's just hypocritical. I don't think people here would be jumping on Bowie or Chris Brown with as much vitriol and hatred should there be threads about them.

 

He's been called out. He's lost everything he's had. He's not perfect. Let him heal. He did not murder/rape. No use to just keep pounding him selectively and repeatedly because he did something that doesn't fit your/our moral compass and because it's cool or easy to do something like that in this era.

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6 minutes ago, brandy said:

but questioning why everyone here is jumping on Ryan Adams when Bowie is still praised as a genius despite having sex with multiple teenagers. It's just hypocritical. I don't think people here would be jumping on Bowie or Chris Brown with as much vitriol and hatred should there be threads about them.

LMAO what utter horseshit. 

Oh I'm sorry we all forgot to relitigate everyone before we talk about Ryan Adams on *checks notes* a Ryan Adams thread.

Weird that you didn't mention The Nudge and Gary Glitter yourself. Are those omissions enough for us to call you out as a hypocrite, given your terms or do you think you should avoid being held account according to the standards you've set out for everyone else?

Edited by OneThreeOneTwo
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12 minutes ago, OneThreeOneTwo said:

LMAO what utter horseshit. 

Oh I'm sorry we all forgot to relitigate everyone before we talk about Ryan Adams on *checks notes* a Ryan Adams thread.

Weird that you didn't mention The Nudge and Gary Glitter yourself. Are those omissions enough for us to call you out as a hypocrite, given your terms or do you think you should avoid being held account according to the standards you've set out for everyone else?

Lolll it's  really hard to take you seriously when you're all hyperbolic. @satoshi was right. Grow up dude. But well here's a David Bowie thread. 

 

Why don't you chime in and remind everyone of what he did, just like what you did with Ryan here?

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1 hour ago, brandy said:

Let him heal. 

Here's the thing: he clearly hasn't, and has no intention to. His behavior hasn't changed in 20 years and he shows no signs that he's likely to change.

 

A person who wants to heal, change, and grow will find a way to do it. A person who doesn't want to will find ways not to.

 

Also lol @ everyone but you being hyperbolic

Edited by tape
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50 minutes ago, brandy said:

Grow up dude.

 

Why don't you chime in and remind everyone of what he did, just like what you did with Ryan here?

Lol I'm sorry you don't see how bi-polar tier delusional you're being here tbh. You're asking me to grow up but also telling me to go chide everyone in a Bowie thread because you're in your feels about people trash-talking your fave artist. Peak loser achieved.

Imagine having an adult grasp on reality/causation/arrow-of-time enough to realize that Adams' 38th public meltdown is happening presently and that these sad attempts at whataboutism doesn't do shit to obscure of deflect from that?

Like I said, be consistent and go hop into every thread of every artist known to have done something above the pale yourself first and foremost or forever STFU. Lead by example if you want any one to do as you say. Understand?

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