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Bernie 2016


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I'd like to preface this statement by saying I was totally swept up with the Obama campaign in '08, canvassed for him in a swing state, etc. And for that matter I'm still undecided in this election but will definitely be voting Dem based on who's left on both sides. I just have to ask, is it wrong for me to be feeling some fatigue here on the whole ideological movement our generation has taken on since 8 or so years ago?

Don't get me wrong, I fully support the LGBTQ rights, black lives matter, healthcare, marijuana legalization, progressive movements that have taken place in the last decade. I agree with a lot of the philosophical stances Sanders has on the economy and taxes. I'm just starting to get the feeling that our generation is becoming so movement obsessed that they're missing the bigger picture. I.E. - who the real enemies are to progress. Frankly, I've been a bit turned off about how in your face so many of my friends seem to be about Bernie without honestly having much in the way of fluency about the way our political system works.

I guess I'm looking for something in the vein of personal opinion from some of you in here. In all reality I'll probably just get trolled, but such is VC.

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 Frankly, I've been a bit turned off about how in your face so many of my friends seem to be about Bernie without honestly having much in the way of fluency about the way our political system works.

 

Do you mean to say that your friends don't understand politics or don't understand how the political system works presently with these big donors?

 

If it's the latter, this is what Bernie's been saying all along. He wants to remove all these variables with deep pockets from politics and help get us back to a true democracy where things are done based on what the people want to see happen. Not because some millionaire is talking in a politicians ear while sliding them thousands or millions of dollars to carry it out.

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Frankly, I've been a bit turned off about how in your face so many of my friends seem to be about Bernie without honestly having much in the way of fluency about the way our political system works.

 

is that really bad?  I mean, the entire system is based on the public voting.  At least they are vehemently hyping Bernie as opposed to Trump..

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Getting people in engaged should be the number one job of anyone running for president. Most people have their ideology figured out by the time they are 30....they will continue to vote for another 40+ years. All politicians need to be courting young voters to make them lifetime _________. It's like cigarettes...they need to get them young.

 

That being said, I would think a minority of voters (young or old) know how the political system fully functions...maybe that's why they are so excited...no one has ever promoted (recently) the ideas that Sanders is talking about...it hasn't been an option for them in the past, now they are excited it's a possibility.

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I think it's a little short sighted to say no one has run on the ideals Sanders is talking about. The platform of being anti-corporate money, pro-socialized medicine, fix the income inequality is at least idealistically where Obama was in his early years. My question kind of becomes - what do you guys think would make a Sanders presidency any different? If you study political history, centrist candidates tend to do well and the idealogues always come back to the middle in one way or another to pass legislation.

SirRichard I think your last point would be more accurate in saying that the new voting generation (18-28) hasn't had a chance to be fully invested in a candidate that matches their progressive ideals so closely.

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Getting people in engaged should be the number one job of anyone running for president. Most people have their ideology figured out by the time they are 30....they will continue to vote for another 40+ years. All politicians need to be courting young voters to make them lifetime _________. It's like cigarettes...they need to get them young.

 

That being said, I would think a minority of voters (young or old) know how the political system fully functions...maybe that's why they are so excited...no one has ever promoted (recently) the ideas that Sanders is talking about...it hasn't been an option for them in the past, now they are excited it's a possibility.

 

It's not something you can quantify but I don't think politicians make voters anything. Your parents/friends/teachers do. Politicians are just the manifestation of those belief systems.

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Yeah, outsiders get brought to the centre by the separation of the two branches. Unfortunately, the two year turnover in the house and senate makes the president more of a figurehead than the weight of the job deserves.

 

Sure, but you have to be inspired to vote by the person. True, parents/teachers/media figures have a bigger part in shaping ideology, but they are not "inspiring" people to get out and vote the same way an engaging politician does.

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I think most candidates run as idealists. They become pragmatists when they have to govern.

 

When you say "centrist candidates tend to do well" do you mean in terms of the amount of legislation passed? Or how closely the bills align with their vision as candidates? Or something else? 

 

In terms of both the amount and resistance of/to new legislation yes. That may sometimes have to do more with congressional circumstances though. Clinton had both houses of Congress in 1992. Bush Jr. (in hindsight much more centrist than he was given credit for) also had both houses (barely).

 

The reality is the Republicans hold decent majorities in both houses right now. This bodes well historically for a Dem president to be elected but I just wonder which is better for retaking congressional majority in the long term, a more liberal candidate or a centrist one. Obama managed to get many things done while he could early on but I think big bills such a single-payer healthcare would be doomed for Bernie if there isn't progress in the congressional split.

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Just as a point of reference I often ask people who are really spammy Bernie supporters (on Facebook) who they would vote for if Hillary beat Bernie in the primary. The typical response: I won't vote.

That's part of the reason I can't get behind the movement yet.

every Bernie supporter I know would vote Hillary if she gets the nomination. The people you're asking are idiots.
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every Bernie supporter I know would vote Hillary if she gets the nomination. The people you're asking are idiots.

 

I'm still not 100% I'd vote for Bernie, but I'd say it's about 95% or higher I would.  However if Hillary was the Dems nominee I'd end up undoubtably voting third party as I have for all other Presidential elections.  Last election was Rocky Anderson and prior to that twice it was Ralph Nader.

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With presidential politics it's weird. I'm not registered with a party in NY state so I can't vote in the primary. I'm not sure if Hillary won the Democratic nomination that I'd vote for her since 1) she would easily win the NY state electoral vote and 2) a third party candidate might interest me more. If I lived in a swing state like Ohio or Florida, I would more than likely just feel obligated to vote for any Democratic candidate because of their electoral votes.

Take away the electoral college and there would be no more such thing as a swing state.

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every Bernie supporter I know would vote Hillary if she gets the nomination. The people you're asking are idiots.

Not me. Although Bernie is caucusing with the Dems, he is squarely an independent and therefore is willing to work with both parties.

To me, Hillary represents nothing but lies, power and greed, like all the others on both sides. If Bernie doesn't get the nomination it would take some heavy convincing that Hillary would be a good choice.

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