TheGhostOfRandySavage Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 (edited) 45 minutes ago, daegor said: 110% agree with this. There are two issues with Welfare as far as I see it. The point isn't to make people more wealthy. Or shouldn't be, rather, but simply to be a support system, a failsafe, for people in a bad situation. The idea being that it costs the Government / Public less money to help people before their situation gets critically bad. If they don't offer any help more people end up in a situation where taxes aren't paid, bankruptcies are declared, etc, etc. The problem here is that there is no real, meaningful attempt to rehabilitate the situation to where they don't need Welfare anymore, which should always been the goal. People abuse it. I truly think that if you're going to take a handout (at the Welfare level or at the bank bailout level), you need to be held to a very high standard of accountability. There needs to be consequences for abuse of the system, and ways to find out if someone is abusing it. Properly managed it can save the country money, it is about the furthest from being properly managed as you can get. Your statements here contradict each other. You say the goal of welfare shouldn't be to make the poor wealthier, but then say we have to have a plan to get them to a point where they don't need welfare. To get them off welfare they need to be able to provide for themselves, meaning that they have to have more money than they currently do, thus making them wealthier. Edited October 4, 2016 by The Ghost of Randy Savage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shitty Rambo Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 7 minutes ago, WAXXX said: mods, @rds needs assistance deleting their account. please help. Protip: Tommy, TheGhostOfRandySavage and WAXXX 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tipyourbartender Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 Welfare is only meant to be an assistance until you get your shit together. Plenty of people use it this way and benefit greatly. It is really easy to abuse though. You can live off welfare without working and pay nothing in taxes. If it was run properly, it would be an amazing and effective system that wouldn't even cost that much it taxes. Shitty Rambo and Tommy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daegor Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 26 minutes ago, The Ghost of Randy Savage said: Your statements here contradict each other. You say the goal of welfare shouldn't be to make the poor wealthier, but then say we have to have a plan to get them to a point where they don't need welfare. To get them off welfare they need to be able to provide for themselves, meaning that they have to have more money than they currently do, thus making them wealthier. Well, I mean I can see how you could read it that way. I guess if I loose my job and need a little financial help for a couple of months I don't consider myself to be any less wealthy during that time. An inversely, I don't feel that making me MORE wealthy will help. Help me be more employable and earning enough money to sustain myself, that will help. Just handing me money only keeps the wolves at bay, it doesn't solve the situation. Tommy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGhostOfRandySavage Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 1 minute ago, daegor said: Well, I mean I can see how you could read it that way. I guess if I loose my job and need a little financial help for a couple of months I don't consider myself to be any less wealthy during that time. An inversely, I don't feel that making me MORE wealthy will help. Help me be more employable and earning enough money to sustain myself, that will help. Just handing me money only keeps the wolves at bay, it doesn't solve the situation. That's just the point though. Making someone employable and able to provide for themselves when they can't do so in fact makes them more wealthy. I agree no one should be just handing out money for no reason. something you may not understand about welfare in the US, being from Canada, is that fewer people use it as a leg-up during a short period of unemployment than use it chronically. It's become a system where, "my parents were on welfare while I was growing up, I'm on it now, and my kids will be when they grow up." This isn't to say there aren't people who want to break this cycle, but it's very hard to do so. NewOldStock and Shitty Rambo 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daegor Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 1 minute ago, The Ghost of Randy Savage said: That's just the point though. Making someone employable and able to provide for themselves when they can't do so in fact makes them more wealthy. I agree no one should be just handing out money for no reason. So we agree then 1 minute ago, The Ghost of Randy Savage said: something you may not understand about welfare in the US, being from Canada, is that fewer people use it as a leg-up during a short period of unemployment than use it chronically. It's become a system where, "my parents were on welfare while I was growing up, I'm on it now, and my kids will be when they grow up." This isn't to say there aren't people who want to break this cycle, but it's very hard to do so. No, I totally get that. While it's true that it's abused more south of the boarder my eyes were opened to the complacency and abuse put on the system when I was an employer scheduling part-time staff who were on Disability: Me: "I've scheduled you for XXXXX shifts next week" Them: "Oh, no, I can't work that much. I need to stay under XXX hours this month." Me: "... why?" Them: "If I work over XXX hours they start to reduce my Disability pay." Me: "So would you be disqualified permanently or would you just receive less that week?" Them: "I'd just receive less that week." Me: "You do realize I pay you more then they pay you, yeah?" Them: "Yes." Me: "..." WAXXX 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tipyourbartender Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 I would like to share something I observed the other week when that dick hole tried to blow up NY and NJ When the news broke of a small explosion in NJ everyone on the news said not to jump to any conclusions. No one knows what really happened. Then a second "possible explosion" happened in the city. Again, we don't know what happened so don't speculate. The two instances may not even be related. It could be anything right? Things just randomly explode all the time. Everyone said the same thing except Donald Trump, but that isn't even my point. My point is the news media, and Washington made it very clear that we shouldn't come to any conclusions until all the facts are known. A few days later news breaks that a black guy was shot during a police altercation. Did Washington and the news media put out statements telling people to remain calm, don't jump to conclusions and wait for the facts? No, it was the opposite of that. The news media reports anything and everything that may or may not be true. First the guy was just sitting in his car reading a book while parked in the middle of the road. Then he wasn't reading, he was smoking a blunt. Then the book turned into a gun. Maybe it was a book about a gun? The false reporting is causing people to riot and kill cops. I am all for protesting the unfair practices of police. I don't think anyone deserves to die while interacting with cops except in extreme and rare circumstances. Here is what I took away: Don't spread a false narrative that muslims are terrorists and at war with America. Do spread a false narrative that police are racist killers who operate above the law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abovetheearth Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 Not all Mexicans are rapists and killers either, btw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daegor Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 22 minutes ago, tipyourbartender said: I would like to share something I observed the other week when that dick hole tried to blow up NY and NJ When the news broke of a small explosion in NJ everyone on the news said not to jump to any conclusions. No one knows what really happened. Then a second "possible explosion" happened in the city. Again, we don't know what happened so don't speculate. The two instances may not even be related. It could be anything right? Things just randomly explode all the time. Everyone said the same thing except Donald Trump, but that isn't even my point. My point is the news media, and Washington made it very clear that we shouldn't come to any conclusions until all the facts are known. A few days later news breaks that a black guy was shot during a police altercation. Did Washington and the news media put out statements telling people to remain calm, don't jump to conclusions and wait for the facts? No, it was the opposite of that. The news media reports anything and everything that may or may not be true. First the guy was just sitting in his car reading a book while parked in the middle of the road. Then he wasn't reading, he was smoking a blunt. Then the book turned into a gun. Maybe it was a book about a gun? The false reporting is causing people to riot and kill cops. I am all for protesting the unfair practices of police. I don't think anyone deserves to die while interacting with cops except in extreme and rare circumstances. Here is what I took away: Don't spread a false narrative that muslims are terrorists and at war with America. Do spread a false narrative that police are racist killers who operate above the law. I'm not so sure about your take away from your story there... How about simply, don't spread a false or uninformed narrative? motorbike 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boops_popmarket Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 22 minutes ago, tipyourbartender said: I would like to share something I observed the other week when that dick hole tried to blow up NY and NJ When the news broke of a small explosion in NJ everyone on the news said not to jump to any conclusions. No one knows what really happened. Then a second "possible explosion" happened in the city. Again, we don't know what happened so don't speculate. The two instances may not even be related. It could be anything right? Things just randomly explode all the time. Everyone said the same thing except Donald Trump, but that isn't even my point. My point is the news media, and Washington made it very clear that we shouldn't come to any conclusions until all the facts are known. A few days later news breaks that a black guy was shot during a police altercation. Did Washington and the news media put out statements telling people to remain calm, don't jump to conclusions and wait for the facts? No, it was the opposite of that. The news media reports anything and everything that may or may not be true. First the guy was just sitting in his car reading a book while parked in the middle of the road. Then he wasn't reading, he was smoking a blunt. Then the book turned into a gun. Maybe it was a book about a gun? The false reporting is causing people to riot and kill cops. I am all for protesting the unfair practices of police. I don't think anyone deserves to die while interacting with cops except in extreme and rare circumstances. Here is what I took away: Don't spread a false narrative that muslims are terrorists and at war with America. Do spread a false narrative that police are racist killers who operate above the law. This is why it's important to, at the best of your ability, make your own judgments and scrutinize the information you get. The media is an amorphous entity that can convey trends but can't give you an accurate picture of the complex, specific perspectives that exist within that amorphous cloud of conflicting interests and personalities. I would be wary to draw simplistic parallels between how they handle one subject and another, especially when the subjects themselves are difficult to unpack on their own. No one should think "the media represents my worldview" and, hopefully, no one should look at the media and think "the media represents what XYZ group's worldview is". While I'm being sincere, I want to say that, even though I strongly disagree with some of the opinions here, I do appreciate that there is concern and some thought happening. I would be OK bumping elbows with any of you as we flip through the "new additions" rack at a local record store. I honestly think a non-Trump presidency will benefit you more than a Trump one and my mockery of pro-Trump sentiments and endorsement of a Democratic candidate isn't attached to an idea like "I can't wait till Hillary comes in and punishes the non-believers!" Same with similar perspectives. I think a better trained police force that doesn't shoot stalled black motorists will benefit you more than one that does and I'm rooting for America to continue being great at the things it's great at and get better at the things that need work. where are the jokes thank you ~ rds nancy_raygun and daegor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGhostOfRandySavage Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 32 minutes ago, rds said: This is why it's important to, at the best of your ability, make your own judgments and scrutinize the information you get. The media is an amorphous entity that can convey trends but can't give you an accurate picture of the complex, specific perspectives that exist within that amorphous cloud of conflicting interests and personalities. I would be wary to draw simplistic parallels between how they handle one subject and another, especially when the subjects themselves are difficult to unpack on their own. No one should think "the media represents my worldview" and, hopefully, no one should look at the media and think "the media represents what XYZ group's worldview is". While I'm being sincere, I want to say that, even though I strongly disagree with some of the opinions here, I do appreciate that there is concern and some thought happening. I would be OK bumping elbows with any of you as we flip through the "new additions" rack at a local record store. I honestly think a non-Trump presidency will benefit you more than a Trump one and my mockery of pro-Trump sentiments and endorsement of a Democratic candidate isn't attached to an idea like "I can't wait till Hillary comes in and punishes the non-believers!" Same with similar perspectives. I think a better trained police force that doesn't shoot stalled black motorists will benefit you more than one that does and I'm rooting for America to continue being great at the things it's great at and get better at the things that need work. where are the jokes thank you ~ rds Agreed. And for the record, I don't think anyone in this thread has any problem with you being anti-Trump, I'm certainly not for him, most of us are just annoyed with your unfunny posts that you seem to think are hilarious. Just contributing to the discussion on a meaningful, sensible way would be appreciated. I don't think anyone here has a problem with hearing differing viewpoints (it's why I read left leaning news and listen to right leaning radio). We all want a fuller picture of the world around us and want this country to be better every day, but the way you have been posting in this thread up until now has been obnoxious. Just be sincere and drop the "jokes." WAXXX and knifeparty 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexH. Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 Uh rds is the only one making good posts in this thread. Myself included. stl_ben and DecayToDeath 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bladewillisisdead Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 15 minutes ago, AlexH. said: Uh rds is the only one making good posts in this thread. Myself included. I would literally vote for his posts for president over Trump. motorbike, YouTwo and futures 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nancy_raygun Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 1 hour ago, AlexH. said: Uh rds is the only one making good posts in this thread. Myself included. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tipyourbartender Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 (edited) Both candidates want the best for the country. It won't be the end of the world in either scenario. Both sides will say and do anything to win, especially this close to the election, and that brings out the worst in people. They lie right to people's faces like we can't tell. I wish there was a shred of honesty and mutual respect between sides. Edited October 5, 2016 by tipyourbartender Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAXXX Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 1 hour ago, tipyourbartender said: Both candidates want the best for the country. how did you come to this conclusion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harryq Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 Despite having been a Hillary supporter throughout this campaign, I'm now convinced that Trump is going to grab this election by the pussy. Tommy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bladewillisisdead Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 (edited) Trump literally says it's ok to sexually assault women if you're rich and famous. P Cool. Telling it like it is. 10/10 would vote for. Edited October 7, 2016 by Bladewillisisdead futures and deadreckoning 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aleon Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 WAXXX 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 How can ANYONE vote for this guy??? Unreal. What a terrible person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bladewillisisdead Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 1 hour ago, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ said: How can ANYONE vote for this guy??? Unreal. What a terrible person. But...But...Emails....Benghazi... YouTwo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 We're gonna grab ISIS by the pussy #murica WAXXX 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgry Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 His comments are appalling and sick but I'd rather pass on domestic bro issues over Clinton's international mind fuck. I have a feeling Wiki will be releasing even more documents days before the election on her. I like how CNN ran with Trump's story over Clinton's international scandal but that's CNN. Even Bernie tried, "Sanders made Clinton's speeches to Goldman Sachs and other financial interests a cornerstone of his stump speeches, regularly slamming Clinton for the private remarks." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abovetheearth Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 1 hour ago, kgry said: His comments are appalling and sick but I'd rather pass on domestic bro issues over Clinton's international mind fuck. Damn dude, really? Wow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boops_popmarket Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 I don't really care what Trump says or does. And that's why he gets my vote in November. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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