There Will Be Hell Toupée! (The Donald Trump Thread)

[WAXXX]

1 hour ago, NapalmBrain said:

But Libertarians are just as economically illiterate IMO. 

in your opinion. abolishing taxation does not collapse an economic system. it collapses the bureaucratic clusterfuck that is the US gov.

with our current taxation system those who need help are getting pennies on the dollar. it's like being a beneficiary at one of the most poorly run charities in the world. 

 

[WAXXX]

also...

 

[Shitty Rambo]

1 hour ago, NapalmBrain said:

But Libertarians are just as economically illiterate IMO. Their whole lack of taxation view kind of collapses the economic system when you need it for public services and what not. The alternatives I hear Libertarians propose like selling off parts of the US and increased service fees don't seem more sane to me than returning to pre-Reagan tax brackets

The 'economy' isn't a tangible thing that needs to be moderated by the government, which is more of less a group of people with a monopoly on brute force. A private company being in charge of road maintenance or even security (police) would probably do a better job at a cheaper cost if that were an option. You're acting as if roads, firefighters, and law enforcement didn't exist prior to 1913 when taxation became prevalent. I don't know how you can criticize the concept of a free market when you can clearly see how artificial prices cause shortages and a lack of quality at higher prices.

[WAXXX]

don't forget that comrade bernie also said that waiting in line to get your food ration is a good thing.

 

 

[Shitty Rambo]

I'm not trying to come across like I'm passing judgement on anyone because you're all adults and can back/vote for whoever the hell you want to. I'm just trying to point out that there is more than one option out there. You're not wasting your vote by supporting a third party (you're wasting your vote by voting for a candidate you don't agree with simply to keep another party out of office). Gary Johnson isn't a full blown AnCap. He's not trying to completely dismantle the state altogether, just cut down on unnecessary expenses. "Fiscally conservative, and socially liberal," as he says.

[Bladewillisisdead]

4 hours ago, Shitty Rambo said:

 

Then look into third party candidate Gary Johnson. Your opinions probably align with his more than you think. Bernie Sanders isn't going to get the candidacy, and although I agree with him on several social issues, he's an economic illiterate. The stuff he's promising sounds great to young people and bleeding heart Liberals, logically it's impossible to do without taking money from the working class.

The government is always going to take our money. That's how there's a governement. We need to reallocate where that money is going, which would in turn HELP the working class. 

 

Don't like being taxed? Cool, stop using roads and shit. Homeschool your kids. Really, just remove yourself from society completely. The problem isn't taxes, it's how is being taxed and how that money is spent. The military industrial complex has pissed away more of your money than something like food stamps has.

 

As for college, why have publicly funded K-12 and stop there? Sure if you wanna go to Harvard or some shit, that's on you. But what's wrong with publicly funded higher education? It's not everyone getting to do whatever they want for free, but it's providing an alternative for people while eliminating predatory loans. The reason we don't already have that is because our public school system was designed to churn out factory workers. Don't want them too educated, they might start questioning things. Don't want them too dumb to work the machines.

 

No one is advocating for full socialism (in this election anyways), but we need to start helping ourselves and each other.

[TheGhostOfRandySavage]

40 minutes ago, Bladewillisisdead said:

The government is always going to take our money. That's how there's a governement. We need to reallocate where that money is going, which would in turn HELP the working class. 

 

Don't like being taxed? Cool, stop using roads and shit. Homeschool your kids. Really, just remove yourself from society completely. The problem isn't taxes, it's how is being taxed and how that money is spent. The military industrial complex has pissed away more of your money than something like food stamps has.

 

As for college, why have publicly funded K-12 and stop there? Sure if you wanna go to Harvard or some shit, that's on you. But what's wrong with publicly funded higher education? It's not everyone getting to do whatever they want for free, but it's providing an alternative for people while eliminating predatory loans.

 

No one is advocating for full socialism (in this election anyways), but we need to start helping ourselves and each other.

Don't be ridiculous. People know we're always going to be taxed for roads, schools, and other necessary things. That's not what Rambo is saying.

 

You do know there is already an alternative to predatory loans and expensive schools, right? It's called starting at a community college, putting in work, and taking care of your shit. I know because I did it. So while I'm working my ass off to pay for my home, food, and clothing, and finally getting to a place where I'm comfortable I'm supposed to give more of my hard earned money to some kid who doesn't want to try as hard as I did/do? No thank you.

 

The current tax system does need to change (how that money is spent at least), but people who think we need to completely cut out our military spending are living in a dream world.

[Bladewillisisdead]

I'm not saying cut out ALL military spending. But there's been trillions in waste.

 

I started at a community college too. But the "I did blah blah blah" argument is selfish and short sighted. 40 years ago you could work a part time summer job at minimum wage and pay for an entire year of college. I worked full time while going to school full time and couldn't afford it. The stress led to me having a compete mental breakdown. I'm still in debt from that too. We need to move forward nd create a better system. It doesn't matter what my experience was, if we make things better for the next generation I'm not gonna be sour about it.

[Bladewillisisdead]

Also, a lot of people don't even have the ability to "try hard." It's a rigged fucking system.

[Shitty Rambo]

50 minutes ago, Bladewillisisdead said:

The government is always going to take our money. That's how there's a governement. We need to reallocate where that money is going, which would in turn HELP the working class. 

 

Don't like being taxed? Cool, stop using roads and shit. Homeschool your kids. Really, just remove yourself from society completely. The problem isn't taxes, it's how is being taxed and how that money is spent. The military industrial complex has pissed away more of your money than something like food stamps has.

 

As for college, why have publicly funded K-12 and stop there? Sure if you wanna go to Harvard or some shit, that's on you. But what's wrong with publicly funded higher education? It's not everyone getting to do whatever they want for free, but it's providing an alternative for people while eliminating predatory loans. The reason we don't already have that is because our public school system was designed to churn out factory workers. Don't want them too educated, they might start questioning things. Don't want them too dumb to work the machines.

 

No one is advocating for full socialism (in this election anyways), but we need to start helping ourselves and each other.

If large amounts of money weren't extracted from my paycheck my wife wouldn't have to work and could stay at home and educate my kids, or better yet, we could afford a private school.

 

The 'roads' stuff is always hysterical. I don't know about where you live, but in CA they're a nightmare. I have a higher chance of fucking the alignment on my truck by using a highway than I would if I took an off-road trail. Also, we're not country of knuckles dragging idiots. I think collectively we could figure out how to put cement on the ground if a private company that took contracts from your local government couldn't do it (this is an exaggeration, but let's say citizens wanted their roads fixed and didn't have federal aid, it could easily be funded by donations or a local lottery. Exaggerated, but not outlandish. When people have more money they're inclined to spend on shit they want/need).

 

You're also saying that the same government that wants to stunt your education is now going to fund it. Good luck with that. You don't need to have a degree to get a good job. If this "factory" you work for is successful in a free market, and you're not a shitty employee, you'll have other opportunities within it.

 

If you really want to help yourself and others than you'll be self sufficient and encourage others to do the same. Needing a higher 'figure' to take care of you is infantile. Your money is your money, and I don't owe anyone a single dime just because they exist. Of course we're going to take care of those in need, but how about we do it on our own terms and aren't lethally forced to do so? Does that really seem crazy to you?

[Bladewillisisdead]

2 minutes ago, Shitty Rambo said:

If large amounts of money weren't extracted from my paycheck my wife wouldn't have to work and could stay at home and educate my kids, or better yet, we could afford a private school.

 

The 'roads' stuff is always hysterical. I don't know about where you live, but in CA they're a nightmare. I have a higher chance of fucking the alignment on my truck by using a highway than I would if I took an off-road trail. Also, we're not country of knuckles dragging idiots. I think collectively we could figure out how to put cement on the ground if a private company that took contracts from your local government couldn't do it (this is an exaggeration, but let's say citizens wanted their roads fixed and didn't have federal aid, it could easily be funded by donations or a local lottery. Exaggerated, but not outlandish. When people have more money they're inclined to spend on shit they want/need).

 

You're also saying that the same government that wants to stunt your education is now going to fund it. Good luck with that. You don't need to have a degree to get a good job. If this "factory" you work for is successful in a free market, and you're not a shitty employee, you'll have other opportunities within it.

 

If you really want to help yourself and others than you'll be self sufficient and encourage others to do the same. Needing a higher 'figure' to take care of you is infantile. Your money is your money, and I don't owe anyone a single dime just because they exist. Of course we're going to take care of those in need, but how about we do it on our own terms and aren't lethally forced to do so? Does that really seem crazy to you?

I live in NY. My tax money fixes the shit out of our roads. Our DOT don't fuck about.

 

The thing to remember is we don't need to significantly raise taxes for the working class. The truly wealthy are not taxed enough, why the fuck else would Trump being working so hard to keep his taxes secret. The notion that you or I would be taxed to death to provide public services is propaganda.

 

It's not about a "father figure" it's about a social safety net so people don't fucking starve or live in the streets. Poverty and homelessness are far more a product of the system than of the individual.

[Shitty Rambo]

1 hour ago, Bladewillisisdead said:

I live in NY. My tax money fixes the shit out of our roads. Our DOT don't fuck about.

 

The thing to remember is we don't need to significantly raise taxes for the working class. The truly wealthy are not taxed enough, why the fuck else would Trump being working so hard to keep his taxes secret. The notion that you or I would be taxed to death to provide public services is propaganda.

 

It's not about a "father figure" it's about a social safety net so people don't fucking starve or live in the streets. Poverty and homelessness are far more a product of the system than of the individual.

When's the last time you've heard of anybody in America starving to death? C'mon dude. Hell, I bet every pan handler on Main St. has more money in his pocket than I  do right now. We're already getting the shit taxed out of us, and the "1% of the 1%" aren't going to fund ALL this shit by paying "their fair share." A larger government means there will be more expenses.

 

Also your boy Bernie is in the top 5% of US household income. He's gotten tax breaks too.

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/04/bernie-sanders-tax-returns-highlight-stark-contrast-with-rival-hillary-clinton/

 

He's also said that, "We'll have to go down a little bit more than that..." as far as the 1%ers go. There's not really multiple classes of families anymore, so the bottom isn't far from the top.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/10/17/heres-how-bernie-sanders-told-comedian-bill-maher-he-would-pay-for-his-plans/

 

This is completely about having a father figure. I firmly believe people are inherently good and will help when they can. It's evident this two party system isn't working, and a Democrat can't tax you into prosperity. I digress, Bernie Sanders won't even be an option this coming election anyways so it really doesn't matter what could potentially get better or worse if he were in office.

[TheGhostOfRandySavage]

1 hour ago, Bladewillisisdead said:

I'm not saying cut out ALL military spending. But there's been trillions in waste.

 

I started at a community college too. But the "I did blah blah blah" argument is selfish and short sighted. 40 years ago you could work a part time summer job at minimum wage and pay for an entire year of college. I worked full time while going to school full time and couldn't afford it. The stress led to me having a compete mental breakdown. I'm still in debt from that too. We need to move forward nd create a better system. It doesn't matter what my experience was, if we make things better for the next generation I'm not gonna be sour about it.

You fault me for using my experience as an example and then use your even more specific example to back up your point. The number of people who do what I did, vs having a mental breakdown like you did is certainly more skewed toward my side.

[eight1echo]

[Bladewillisisdead]

1 hour ago, The Ghost of Randy Savage said:

You fault me for using my experience as an example and then use your even more specific example to back up your point. The number of people who do what I did, vs having a mental breakdown like you did is certainly more skewed toward my side.

I used my example to illustrate that I had it bad but would not fault the next generation for having it better. I'm saying that going to college shouldn't be such an enourmous hurddle. The last couple generations have gotten severely fucked when it comes to paying for school. Fixing that might sting a bit for those of us who already took that hit, but it's the right thing to do.

[Shitty Rambo]

Fuck the next generation. The kids graduating highschool today are not my or your responsibility. If they want a free ride to college then that's their parent's problem (like it should be).

 

What are these kids going to learn that's going to make things so much better? Cooler graphic design? More lawyers? People who excel in fields like medicine and technology have drive and want to push boundaries. Not everybody is built like that and they don't all deserve a turn.

 

Everybody wants to make a job, not get a job. You're worrying about an unrealistic endgame while your basic rights are shrinking. You can't even sell friggin' lemonade in public without the state arresting you because you didn't pay for a permit!

 

 

[Bladewillisisdead]

It's about fixing a completely fucked up system. College was never this much of a financial burden in the past, why should it continue to be?

[NapalmBrain]

Your lack of empathy towards others is why our candidate preferences differ. It's not an equal start to the top, and not all families can afford to send their kids to college, and not all people are physically built for the trades and some don't have the stress tolerance to work and go to school and even if you do it gets harder and harder as the price of tuition rises year to year and the wage gap gets bigger and bigger. So they are stuck in a shit job and can't even afford to eat a healthy meal because cheap food is hardly even food because the competition is so fierce in every market including the food industry so the bottom line falls on the safety of the consumer. Anything remotely healthy is marketed and jacked up in price. You can probably pick apart how some of these people spend their money, but let's face it a $5 coffee isn't going to make much of a difference when your wages are half of your rent. There is an entire generation of disheartened people who feel like they cannot get ahead in the current system and it could one day be your problem, I don't want to be around a mass of people who feel like they have nothing to lose.

[Shitty Rambo]

Lack of empathy? Hahaha, OK. Go ahead and keep telling yourself that by simply backing a candidate who says he's says going to do x/y/z means you a better person.

 

"Anything remotely healthy is jacked up in price," last time I checked apples, chicken, eggs, oatmeal and milk weren't incomprehensibly expensive AND covered by EBT for those in dire straits. Are you talking about food that has the word ORGANIC printed on the manufactured packaging materials assembled by a marketing team? 

[TheGhostOfRandySavage]

51 minutes ago, Bladewillisisdead said:

It's about fixing a completely fucked up system. College was never this much of a financial burden in the past, why should it continue to be?

College has always been expensive, and has always been a financial burden.

[Shitty Rambo]

If not trusting the government of a country that has the highest incarceration rates compared to any other country in the world means I lack empathy then I guess I'm a monster. I'm sure all the black and latino males in prison for non-violent drugs crimes feel really bad that you can't afford to go to college.

[heyimdb]

This is gonna be my first post on here and what a gem of a post it is going to be. 

First off, shouts out to my man Shitty Rambo for putting me on to the boards. 

 

I am going to have to apologize for my bad typing on here. I have an iPhone and fat thumbs. 

 

As a Libertarian (since 2008) who not only regularly endorses politicians and has worked on a certain candidates campaign this past year and caucused in the last election, I have to say I am absolutely terrified by the idiotic comments on here. 

 

It would seem a lot of people need lessons in logic, economics, freedoms, and reasoning. 

[Bladewillisisdead]

3 hours ago, Shitty Rambo said:

Lack of empathy? Hahaha, OK. Go ahead and keep telling yourself that by simply backing a candidate who says he's says going to do x/y/z means you a better person.

 

"Anything remotely healthy is jacked up in price," last time I checked apples, chicken, eggs, oatmeal and milk weren't incomprehensibly expensive AND covered by EBT for those in dire straits. Are you talking about food that has the word ORGANIC printed on the manufactured packaging materials assembled by a marketing team? 

I don't think he meant you lack all empathy and are a terrible person. Just that there's a large section of the population you either can't or are not empathizing with. 

 

As for food, yes you're right. Rice and beans and shit are cheap and covered by EBT. It's surprisingly difficult to get food stamps. I could barely afford rent without help for my ex girlfriend and I couldn't qualify for assistance. I worked 40 hours a week and had a full time course load at school. A lot of people on assistance bust their asses working and taking care of their kids and simply don't have the time or energy to cook and end up buying low grade crap they just have to throw in the microwave. You can only struggle so much before something has to give, sadly for a lot of Americans that's food preperation.

 

 

As for college being a financial burden: it's the worst it's ever been and disproportionately so. In the 70s you could work minimum wage over your summer break and pay for school. Not only have I seen the numbers broken down, but I know people who did that. I know more than a few people who could tell you "Oh yeah, I worked over the summer and then buckled down and went to school the rest of the year." That's no longer an option anymore. 

 

That's a symptom of a much larger problem. Wages have not increased with inflation and the cost of living. When you work 40+ hours a week just to shelter and feed yourself, where is your time (let alone money) to go to school?

[heyimdb]

3 hours ago, Shitty Rambo said:

If not trusting the government of a country that has the highest incarceration rates compared to any other country in the world means I lack empathy then I guess I'm a monster. I'm sure all the black and latino males in prison for non-violent drugs crimes feel really bad that you can't afford to go to college.

^all day long I will agree whole heartedly. 

It sounds like people need to read Atlas Shrugged so they can truly understand what happens in a welfare state.

"We need to be more compassionate!"

not when taxation is falsely represented as compassion. 

Taxation is in fact by definition extortion. Anyone looking for a candidate to change things for them by enforcing more economic rape is truly delusional. Americans already fund the world and as of the last time I checked two hours ago on Wikipedia, we are leading country on planet earth in debt with over 19 trillion and counting. 

That's cool, though. Whine and complain about the important stuff... like... your lack of free college. The majority of which are all on state and federal funding (who pays for that?). Get that really important piece of paper of yours so the dwindling private sector and job market that has been so heavily screwed by the government can have a fight over who gets to hire you first. 

"Cause like, it should be like, free! And it's not so I can't afford it and that's like, so totally NOT FAIR!"

[Bladewillisisdead]

9 minutes ago, heyimdb said:

This is gonna be my first post on here and what a gem of a post it is going to be. 

First off, shouts out to my man Shitty Rambo for putting me on to the boards. 

 

I am going to have to apologize for my bad typing on here. I have an iPhone and fat thumbs. 

 

As a Libertarian (since 2008) who not only regularly endorses politicians and has worked on a certain candidates campaign this past year and caucused in the last election, I have to say I am absolutely terrified by the idiotic comments on here. 

 

It would seem a lot of people need lessons in logic, economics, freedoms, and reasoning. 

Libertarianism: the fedora and vape pen of politics

 

 

I flirted with libertarian ideas as a young adult. Ultimately I couldn't get past the lack of humanity. It doesn't want to address the broken system that's fucked up and destroyed large portions of the population. It just wants less regulations + magic to = success. Too much greed and selfishness dressed up as "every man for himself" bullshit. I've pissed on copies of The Fountainhead and I'd do it again.