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There Will Be Hell Toupée! (The Donald Trump Thread)

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45 minutes ago, daegor said:

110% agree with this.

 

 

There are two issues with Welfare as far as I see it.

  1. The point isn't to make people more wealthy.  Or shouldn't be, rather, but simply to be a support system, a failsafe, for people in a bad situation.  The idea being that it costs the Government / Public less money to help people before their situation gets critically bad.  If they don't offer any help more people end up in a situation where taxes aren't paid, bankruptcies are declared, etc, etc.  The problem here is that there is no real, meaningful attempt to rehabilitate the situation to where they don't need Welfare anymore, which should always been the goal.
  2. People abuse it.  I truly think that if you're going to take a handout (at the Welfare level or at the bank bailout level), you need to be held to a very high standard of accountability.  There needs to be consequences for abuse of the system, and ways to find out if someone is abusing it.

Properly managed it can save the country money, it is about the furthest from being properly managed as you can get.

Your statements here contradict each other. You say the goal of welfare shouldn't be to make the poor wealthier, but then say we have to have a plan to get them to a point where they don't need welfare. To get them off welfare they need to be able to provide for themselves, meaning that they have to have more money than they currently do, thus making them wealthier.

Edited by The Ghost of Randy Savage

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Welfare is only meant to be an assistance until you get your shit together. Plenty of people use it this way and benefit greatly. It is really easy to abuse though. You can live off welfare without working and pay nothing in taxes. If it was run properly, it would be an amazing and effective system that wouldn't even cost that much it taxes. 

 

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26 minutes ago, The Ghost of Randy Savage said:

Your statements here contradict each other. You say the goal of welfare shouldn't be to make the poor wealthier, but then say we have to have a plan to get them to a point where they don't need welfare. To get them off welfare they need to be able to provide for themselves, meaning that they have to have more money than they currently do, thus making them wealthier.

Well, I mean I can see how you could read it that way.

 

I guess if I loose my job and need a little financial help for a couple of months I don't consider myself to be any less wealthy during that time.  An inversely, I don't feel that making me MORE wealthy will help.  Help me be more employable and earning enough money to sustain myself, that will help.

 

Just handing me money only keeps the wolves at bay, it doesn't solve the situation.

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1 minute ago, daegor said:

Well, I mean I can see how you could read it that way.

 

I guess if I loose my job and need a little financial help for a couple of months I don't consider myself to be any less wealthy during that time.  An inversely, I don't feel that making me MORE wealthy will help.  Help me be more employable and earning enough money to sustain myself, that will help.

 

Just handing me money only keeps the wolves at bay, it doesn't solve the situation.

That's just the point though. Making someone employable and able to provide for themselves when they can't do so in fact makes them more wealthy. I agree no one should be just handing out money for no reason.

something you may not understand about welfare in the US, being from Canada, is that fewer people use it as a leg-up during a short period of unemployment than use it chronically. It's become a system where, "my parents were on welfare while I was growing up, I'm on it now, and my kids will be when they grow up."

This isn't to say there aren't people who want to break this cycle, but it's very hard to do so.

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1 minute ago, The Ghost of Randy Savage said:

That's just the point though. Making someone employable and able to provide for themselves when they can't do so in fact makes them more wealthy. I agree no one should be just handing out money for no reason.

So we agree then ;)

 

1 minute ago, The Ghost of Randy Savage said:

something you may not understand about welfare in the US, being from Canada, is that fewer people use it as a leg-up during a short period of unemployment than use it chronically. It's become a system where, "my parents were on welfare while I was growing up, I'm on it now, and my kids will be when they grow up."

This isn't to say there aren't people who want to break this cycle, but it's very hard to do so.

No, I totally get that.  While it's true that it's abused more south of the boarder my eyes were opened to the complacency and abuse put on the system when I was an employer scheduling part-time staff who were on Disability:

 

Me:  "I've scheduled you for XXXXX shifts next week"

Them:  "Oh, no, I can't work that much.  I need to stay under XXX hours this month."

Me:  "... why?"

Them:  "If I work over XXX hours they start to reduce my Disability pay."

Me:  "So would you be disqualified permanently or would you just receive less that week?"

Them:  "I'd just receive less that week."

Me:  "You do realize I pay you more then they pay you, yeah?"

Them:  "Yes."

Me:  "..."

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I would like to share something I observed the other week when that dick hole tried to blow up NY and NJ

When the news broke of a small explosion in NJ everyone on the news said not to jump to any conclusions. No one knows what really happened. Then a second "possible explosion" happened in the city. Again, we don't know what happened so don't speculate. The two instances may not even be related. It could be anything right? Things just randomly explode all the time. Everyone said the same thing except Donald Trump, but that isn't even my point.  My point is the news media, and Washington made it very clear that we shouldn't come to any conclusions until all the facts are known. 

A few days later news breaks that a black guy was shot during a police altercation. Did Washington and the news media put out statements telling people to remain calm, don't jump to conclusions and wait for the facts? No, it was the opposite of that. The news media reports anything and everything that may or may not be true. First the guy was just sitting in his car reading a book while parked in the middle of the road. Then he wasn't reading, he was smoking a blunt. Then the book turned into a gun. Maybe it was a book about a gun?  The false reporting is causing people to riot and kill cops. 

I am all for protesting the unfair practices of police. I don't think anyone deserves to die while interacting with cops except in extreme and rare circumstances. 

Here is what I took away: Don't spread a false narrative that muslims are terrorists and at war with America. Do spread a false narrative that police are racist killers who operate above the law. 

 

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22 minutes ago, tipyourbartender said:

I would like to share something I observed the other week when that dick hole tried to blow up NY and NJ

When the news broke of a small explosion in NJ everyone on the news said not to jump to any conclusions. No one knows what really happened. Then a second "possible explosion" happened in the city. Again, we don't know what happened so don't speculate. The two instances may not even be related. It could be anything right? Things just randomly explode all the time. Everyone said the same thing except Donald Trump, but that isn't even my point.  My point is the news media, and Washington made it very clear that we shouldn't come to any conclusions until all the facts are known. 

A few days later news breaks that a black guy was shot during a police altercation. Did Washington and the news media put out statements telling people to remain calm, don't jump to conclusions and wait for the facts? No, it was the opposite of that. The news media reports anything and everything that may or may not be true. First the guy was just sitting in his car reading a book while parked in the middle of the road. Then he wasn't reading, he was smoking a blunt. Then the book turned into a gun. Maybe it was a book about a gun?  The false reporting is causing people to riot and kill cops. 

I am all for protesting the unfair practices of police. I don't think anyone deserves to die while interacting with cops except in extreme and rare circumstances. 

Here is what I took away: Don't spread a false narrative that muslims are terrorists and at war with America. Do spread a false narrative that police are racist killers who operate above the law. 

 

I'm not so sure about your take away from your story there...

 

How about simply, don't spread a false or uninformed narrative?

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22 minutes ago, tipyourbartender said:

I would like to share something I observed the other week when that dick hole tried to blow up NY and NJ

When the news broke of a small explosion in NJ everyone on the news said not to jump to any conclusions. No one knows what really happened. Then a second "possible explosion" happened in the city. Again, we don't know what happened so don't speculate. The two instances may not even be related. It could be anything right? Things just randomly explode all the time. Everyone said the same thing except Donald Trump, but that isn't even my point.  My point is the news media, and Washington made it very clear that we shouldn't come to any conclusions until all the facts are known. 

A few days later news breaks that a black guy was shot during a police altercation. Did Washington and the news media put out statements telling people to remain calm, don't jump to conclusions and wait for the facts? No, it was the opposite of that. The news media reports anything and everything that may or may not be true. First the guy was just sitting in his car reading a book while parked in the middle of the road. Then he wasn't reading, he was smoking a blunt. Then the book turned into a gun. Maybe it was a book about a gun?  The false reporting is causing people to riot and kill cops. 

I am all for protesting the unfair practices of police. I don't think anyone deserves to die while interacting with cops except in extreme and rare circumstances. 

Here is what I took away: Don't spread a false narrative that muslims are terrorists and at war with America. Do spread a false narrative that police are racist killers who operate above the law. 

 

This is why it's important to, at the best of your ability, make your own judgments and scrutinize the information you get.  The media is an amorphous entity that can convey trends but can't give you an accurate picture of the complex, specific perspectives that exist within that amorphous cloud of conflicting interests and personalities.  I would be wary to draw simplistic parallels between how they handle one subject and another, especially when the subjects themselves are difficult to unpack on their own.  No one should think "the media represents my worldview" and, hopefully, no one should look at the media and think "the media represents what XYZ group's worldview is".  

 

While I'm being sincere, I want to say that, even though I strongly disagree with some of the opinions here, I do appreciate that there is concern and some thought happening.  I would be OK bumping elbows with any of you as we flip through the "new additions" rack at a local record store.  I honestly think a non-Trump presidency will benefit you more than a Trump one and my mockery of pro-Trump sentiments and endorsement of a Democratic candidate isn't attached to an idea like "I can't wait till Hillary comes in and punishes the non-believers!"  Same with similar perspectives.  I think a better trained police force that doesn't shoot stalled black motorists will benefit you more than one that does and I'm rooting for America to continue being great at the things it's great at and get better at the things that need work.  where are the jokes thank you ~ rds

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32 minutes ago, rds said:

This is why it's important to, at the best of your ability, make your own judgments and scrutinize the information you get.  The media is an amorphous entity that can convey trends but can't give you an accurate picture of the complex, specific perspectives that exist within that amorphous cloud of conflicting interests and personalities.  I would be wary to draw simplistic parallels between how they handle one subject and another, especially when the subjects themselves are difficult to unpack on their own.  No one should think "the media represents my worldview" and, hopefully, no one should look at the media and think "the media represents what XYZ group's worldview is".  

 

While I'm being sincere, I want to say that, even though I strongly disagree with some of the opinions here, I do appreciate that there is concern and some thought happening.  I would be OK bumping elbows with any of you as we flip through the "new additions" rack at a local record store.  I honestly think a non-Trump presidency will benefit you more than a Trump one and my mockery of pro-Trump sentiments and endorsement of a Democratic candidate isn't attached to an idea like "I can't wait till Hillary comes in and punishes the non-believers!"  Same with similar perspectives.  I think a better trained police force that doesn't shoot stalled black motorists will benefit you more than one that does and I'm rooting for America to continue being great at the things it's great at and get better at the things that need work.  where are the jokes thank you ~ rds

Agreed.

 

And for the record, I don't think anyone in this thread has any problem with you being anti-Trump, I'm certainly not for him, most of us are just annoyed with your unfunny posts that you seem to think are hilarious.

Just contributing to the discussion  on a meaningful, sensible way would be appreciated.

I don't think anyone here has a problem with hearing differing viewpoints (it's why I read left leaning news and listen to right leaning radio). We all want a fuller picture of the world around us and want this country to be better every day, but the way you have been posting in this thread up until now has been obnoxious.

Just be sincere and drop the "jokes."

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Both candidates want the best for the country. It won't be the end of the world in either scenario. Both sides will say and do anything to win, especially this close to the election, and that brings out the worst in people. They lie right to people's faces like we can't tell. I wish there was a shred of honesty and mutual respect between sides. 

 

Edited by tipyourbartender

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His comments are appalling and sick but I'd rather pass on domestic bro issues over Clinton's  international mind fuck. I have a feeling Wiki will be releasing even more documents days before the election on her. I like how CNN ran with Trump's story over Clinton's international scandal but that's CNN. Even Bernie tried, "Sanders made Clinton's speeches to Goldman Sachs and other financial interests a cornerstone of his stump speeches, regularly slamming Clinton for the private remarks."

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