ISIS - Wavering Radiant 2x12” Now Available For Pre-Order! (And Everything Else Discussion)

[Gumbo72203]

12 minutes ago, Derek™ said:

Sometimes I imagine the photo of Gumbo in his avatar is "normal" Gumbo before years of careless head banging caught up to him.  Or perhaps one particular show is all it took, and gave one lucky venue the incentive to create and hang a "no stage diving allowed" sign.

a 16 year old Gumbo stagediving?  Why, just cue yourselves to 1:16 and 1:58!  (short hair, all black)

 

 

[MayCauseDeath]

I jammed this album today and forgot how great it is! Also I love robotic empire so everyone should just buy it and support them. 

Edited December 14, 2016 by MayCauseDeath

[Stress On The Sky]

5 hours ago, Gumbo72203 said:

If we're talking monetary motivation, wouldn't that then be just as equally worthwhile of an endeavor?  Because if it's simply about whether people want it, what makes one different from the other?  Why is "we're going to release this record because people want it" okay but "we're going to play because people want us to" not okay? 

 

I would say there's a much more personal effort involved in being on the road for months  and performing than basically just filling in a few orders with a pressing plant. I'd also argue that these re-issues aren't motivated solely by monetary gain, if they wanted to do that they wouldn't be making these so affordable because they could easily ask for a higher price point. 

I'd say it would only be okay to tour if all the musicians wanted it which they don't. Regardless of whether some have hinted at the fact they'd like to there would be complaints if the ones who didn't were replaced by stand ins and you're not going to get a good show out of a band who doesn't want to be there. As soon as playing live becomes an obligation or a chore you know you're in for a shit show.

It's like when John Garcia wanted to re-unite Kyuss because they didn't get popular till after they finished up. Some of the band wanted to do it but Josh Homme rightly said something to the effect of "no, we did that already, if you missed it I feel bad for you but I'm not moving backwards, it was a perfect time and it ran its course. I'm still proud of what we did but there's no reason to do it all again because some new people are here now"

In summation you can re-issue an album without it being a soulless cash grab and decide not to tour. It's better to not tour at all than to tour for the wrong reasons and as far as this situation goes I'd say the "customer is definitely not always right."

(Also just to boil your piss Gumbo I'd say Old Man Gloom's Ape Of God I & II and NO shit over Wavering Radiant so I hope ISIS do stay defunct and we get another UK OMG show instead)
 

[jhulud]

Related and kinda funny...some dude posted to OMG's FB that his Paypal was suspended due to purchasing an ISIS shirt...

 

 

 

[Gumbo72203]

6 hours ago, Stress On The Sky said:

It's like when John Garcia wanted to re-unite Kyuss because they didn't get popular till after they finished up. Some of the band wanted to do it but Josh Homme rightly said something to the effect of "no, we did that already, if you missed it I feel bad for you but I'm not moving backwards, it was a perfect time and it ran its course. I'm still proud of what we did but there's no reason to do it all again because some new people are here now"

In summation you can re-issue an album without it being a soulless cash grab and decide not to tour. It's better to not tour at all than to tour for the wrong reasons and as far as this situation goes I'd say the "customer is definitely not always right."

(Also just to boil your piss Gumbo I'd say Old Man Gloom's Ape Of God I & II and NO shit over Wavering Radiant so I hope ISIS do stay defunct and we get another UK OMG show instead)
 

See, the highlighted section is precisely where I disagree.  As an artist, if I had a whole bunch of new people in a new generation who truly loved my music and wanted to see me perform it....  well, I would jump at that chance.  The fans made the band what it was, and if you've got more who want to see you play who never got the chance, I don't see why it would be so hard to do it for them. 

 

Perhaps it comes down to me thinking of other people first before myself...  I tend to always do that, put other people before myself in pretty much everything.  I feel... awkward being ego-centered.  I don't like it.  So, there could be a basic fundamental difference between Aaron and I because to me, if you have this massive legion of new fans who never got the chance to see you play, it comes off as sort of a dick move to me to say "ah well, sorry guys.... sucks you were born too late but i just don't feel like doing it."

 

It wouldn't be a cash-grab.... knowing that there was this whole new generation of fans stoked on your music, in my mind, would prove to be the perfect fuel to the fire to make sure you played well and did as best a job as you could, and not rendering it a cash-grab.  It isn't tarnishing the legacy, it's honoring the stuff you created and presenting it to people who were unfortunately not born at the right time.  The fact that the music has stood the test of time to continue to create legions of new, rabid fans should be reason enough to give it a retrospective-airing at some point, I feel. 

 

Of course, this comes from someone who did only minimal touring and didn't have a band the scope of Isis.  I don't have the tens of thousands of hours on the road in the van informing my decisions and the weight of business decisions, etc.  So there's that, but still... it's fun for me to toss these ideas around and debate them. 

[Mattallurgist]

Just now, Gumbo72203 said:

As an artist, if I had a whole bunch of new people in a new generation who truly loved my music and wanted to see me perform it....  well, I would jump at that chance.  The fans made the band what it was, and if you've got more who want to see you play who never got the chance, I don't see why it would be so hard to do it for them. 

The band don't owe you shit, dude. If they don't want to do it, they shouldn't have to. 
 

2 minutes ago, Gumbo72203 said:

I don't see why it would be so hard to do it for them. 

You don't know why.

I totally get your side of it to a degree, and as a low-key musician myself who never really took his cruddy post-rock band anywhere I'd leap at the chance to feel like I'd done something worthwhile for people. But just to reiterate: they don't owe you, or me, or anyone else anything. If their reason for playing music was 'to play music' then they'll do that when they want to do that, regardless of fame or money or whatever. And that's how it should be, if we're being idealistic. I'd rather see Old Man Gloom or Sumac or whoever play, where everyone in the band is into it, than go and see an Isis reunion tour where one or two of the members were not.

[Derek™]

Welp that's about enough cringe for today.  Thank you, Gumby.  As always.

[Gumbo72203]

58 minutes ago, Mattallurgist said:

The band don't owe you shit, dude. If they don't want to do it, they shouldn't have to. 
 

You don't know why.

I totally get your side of it to a degree, and as a low-key musician myself who never really took his cruddy post-rock band anywhere I'd leap at the chance to feel like I'd done something worthwhile for people. But just to reiterate: they don't owe you, or me, or anyone else anything. If their reason for playing music was 'to play music' then they'll do that when they want to do that, regardless of fame or money or whatever. And that's how it should be, if we're being idealistic. I'd rather see Old Man Gloom or Sumac or whoever play, where everyone in the band is into it, than go and see an Isis reunion tour where one or two of the members were not.

 

Perhaps I've been misunderstood, but it's not AT ALL about the band owing fans whatsoever.  It's more of "Oh shit, there's thousands of new fans that we've gained in recent years who didn't know about us when we were playing?  Fuck yeah let's play for those guys!"  Or something like "Oh man, there's high school kids still getting into Oceanic and Celestial and rocking out to "Ghost Key?"  whaaaat, lets go play some shows, because they're going to flip when they see us do that stuff!" 

 

What I'm saying, is that knowing you have so many new fans who never got to see you.... why wouldn't you want to play for them?  I would be so excited about that, I would want to do it.  I would think that would be incentive enough, knowing that thousands of younger people love this thing you created and never got to experience it live because they literally didn't even exist.  That's such a crazy thought. 

[Gumbo72203]

1 hour ago, Derek™ said:

Welp that's about enough cringe for today.  Thank you, Gumby.  As always.

If nobody ever challenges the accepted status quo and makes you ponder the hard questions, there is no progress!

[mcpherson123]

3 hours ago, jhulud said:

Related and kinda funny...some dude posted to OMG's FB that his Paypal was suspended due to purchasing an ISIS shirt...

 

 

 

Holy shit.... Filters smart enough to stop you from paypal'ing money to a vendor for an item with the tag "isis" in the metadata but not smart enough to assess the sources. Crazy. Not being sarcastic. I think this is crazy.

[mcpherson123]

1 hour ago, Gumbo72203 said:

 

Perhaps I've been misunderstood, but it's not AT ALL about the band owing fans whatsoever.  It's more of "Oh shit, there's thousands of new fans that we've gained in recent years who didn't know about us when we were playing?  Fuck yeah let's play for those guys!"  Or something like "Oh man, there's high school kids still getting into Oceanic and Celestial and rocking out to "Ghost Key?"  whaaaat, lets go play some shows, because they're going to flip when they see us do that stuff!" 

 

What I'm saying, is that knowing you have so many new fans who never got to see you.... why wouldn't you want to play for them?  I would be so excited about that, I would want to do it.  I would think that would be incentive enough, knowing that thousands of younger people love this thing you created and never got to experience it live because they literally didn't even exist.  That's such a crazy thought. 

I think you're looking for livemusiccollective.com. This is is Vinylcollective.com. The emphasis here is obtaining music on vinyl. I understand your arguments and I encourage discussion of such topics but to ever call a repress/reissue/remaster of a coveted and out of print album a cash-in, when the cost is reasonable, is ridiculous.

Edited December 14, 2016 by mcpherson123

[jhulud]

2 hours ago, Mattallurgist said:

The band don't owe you shit, dude. If they don't want to do it, they shouldn't have to. 

This is all that this here comes down to.

 

Down with entitlement opinions and up with ISIS' music.

 

 

 

 

[Gumbo72203]

5 hours ago, jhulud said:

This is all that this here comes down to.

 

Down with entitlement opinions and up with ISIS' music.

 

 

 

 

Haha fair, it's not about entitlement though.  I just don't get why you wouldn't be super excited to play for a whole new generation of rabid fans.  Like, isn't that the goal?  To be so awesome at your thing that it outlives itself and keeps generating new people who are in love with what you've made? 

Like, "Oh shit, there's all these new young people who never saw us that want to?  Fuck yeah, lets play for them!  They'll go nuts!" 

 

 

anyway, fucking Ghost Key.  That song is so awesome. 

[TheGhostOfRandySavage]

8 hours ago, Gumbo72203 said:

"Oh shit, there's thousands of new fans that we've gained in recent years who didn't know about us when we were playing?  Fuck yeah let's play for those guys!"  Or something like "Oh man, there's high school kids still getting into Oceanic and Celestial and rocking out to "Ghost Key?"  whaaaat, lets go play some shows, because they're going to flip when they see us do that stuff!"

See, you feel this way, but if they don't feel that way they're entitled to. In fact they don't want to go out and tour for these kids, or you, or me. Why can't you just accept that and fucking drop it, dude?

8 hours ago, Gumbo72203 said:

If nobody ever challenges the accepted status quo and makes you ponder the hard questions, there is no progress!

You're not challenging a status quo, you're challenging an individuals right not to be forced to perform for your enjoyment. At first it was just gumbo being gumbo-y about stuff, now it's annoying. Just get it through your head that not every artist shares the same ideals as you and maybe they have a good reason for not touring in that...they don't fucking want to.

It's probably because they don't want to be mobbed by a group of gumbos trying to grope at them with their jizz and tear soaked hands in hopes that some of their talent rubs off on them.

Edited December 15, 2016 by The Ghost of Randy Savage

[danyc]

Probably goes without saying, but them trying to tour under the name ISIS currently would have to be a giant headache, if it wasn't already when they hung it up.

[ethereal]

26 minutes ago, danyc said:

Probably goes without saying, but them trying to tour under the name ISIS currently would have to be a giant headache, if it wasn't already when they hung it up.

exactly my thoughts as well

[Gumbo72203]

13 hours ago, The Ghost of Randy Savage said:

See, you feel this way, but if they don't feel that way they're entitled to. In fact they don't want to go out and tour for these kids, or you, or me. Why can't you just accept that and fucking drop it, dude?

Right, yeah of course they're entitled to, but it's interesting for me to dissect and analyze why.  I always want to know why people do things, and what makes them think the way they think.  I like debating philosophical things like this, getting inside people's heads.  I don't understand why it's so hard for you guys to engage in a discussion about it; don't be mean about it, show me your reasons!  I like being presented with things that I haven't thought about, that could help me look at a situation a different way.  For me, it's just not enough to hear "They don't want to.  The end."  That leaves me with so many questions, and I can't let my curiosity stagnate!  It has nothing to do with me feeling cheated or entitled, obviously Aaron can do whatever the fuck he wants; I've never said otherwise.  I'm just utterly fascinated by what would go into the decision to turn away from something that would bring joy to so many people, how you would arrive there.  Like, when they think about getting back together for shows, I'm just super curious about what kind of thoughts and feelings are going on inside their heads.  

 

11 hours ago, danyc said:

Probably goes without saying, but them trying to tour under the name ISIS currently would have to be a giant headache, if it wasn't already when they hung it up.

I've wondered this myself.... and what would make a cool name.  I feel like Oceanic: the music of Isis would be a neat title....    or something maybe like "The Mosquito Control" or "The Tower" perhaps.  Or they could call themselves The Beginning and The End.  That would be pretty fucking cool.   

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mcpherson123]

Honestly, even if they were burning to get back together and tour, they would likely end up being killed by some twat who doesn't get it. When they hung it up, I heard no talk of ISIS the terrorist group but I'll say it looks like they quit just in time because it wasn't until about 2014 when the terrorist group began going by or being called by that name specifically which is really just an unfortunately convenient way to make an acronym our of their name. Here is a bit about the naming they have had from The Week:

 

Quote

 

A bit of nomenclature:

You may have heard about ISIS referred to as IS, ISIL, or Daesh. All of these acronyms describe the group in question.

ISIS: Islamic State of Iraq and Syria was the name of the group when it captured Mosul in 2014 and became the terrorist juggernaut it is today. They named themselves that to assert their dominance in Syria (more on that later).

ISIL: Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (aka Greater Syria) is the name that Obama uses to describe the group (pretty much only Obama uses it). Superficially speaking, it is just a translation thing.

IS: Islamic State is the name the group gave itself after a "rebranding" effort when they wanted to show off their global strategy (they wouldn't be limited to Syria and Iraq anymore).

Daesh: You may have heard French President Francois Hollande refer to the group by this name. This is essentially the Arabic acronym of the group. People assume that using this word somehow weakens them… it doesn't, because unfortunately in this case it is one of those "sticks and stones" things.

 

 

[TheGhostOfRandySavage]

6 minutes ago, Gumbo72203 said:

Right, yeah of course they're entitled to, but it's interesting for me to dissect and analyze why.  I always want to know why people do things, and what makes them think the way they think.  I like debating philosophical things like this, getting inside people's heads.  I don't understand why it's so hard for you guys to engage in a discussion about it; don't be mean about it, show me your reasons!  I like being presented with things that I haven't thought about, that could help me look at a situation a different way.  For me, it's just not enough to hear "They don't want to.  The end."  That leaves me with so many questions, and I can't let my curiosity stagnate!  It has nothing to do with me feeling cheated or entitled, obviously Aaron can do whatever the fuck he wants; I've never said otherwise.  I'm just utterly fascinated by what would go into the decision to turn away from something that would bring joy to so many people, how you would arrive there.  Like, when they think about getting back together for shows, I'm just super curious about what kind of thoughts and feelings are going on inside their heads.  

There is no reason to debate or theorize about why he doesn't want to do it because we're not Aaron and we can't read his thoughts. Why would we want to debate hypothetical reasons why someone possibly doesn't want to play shows?

We're not talking philosophy here, we're talking, "this person doesn't want to do something and no one knows why."

The thing is the rest of us can respect that decision and not need to know why. It's what he wants, so who cares what the reason is?

 

As for being mean...dude, you push and push and push on this stuff to the point of annoyance. We get it. You want to see them play out again and you'd pay a bunch of money for it. Just let it drop. Other people's joy isn't a driving factor for a lot of people. It would give a lot of people on here a lot of joy if you'd just stop posting about this, yet you continue to spill stupid all over the boards anyway.

Edited December 15, 2016 by The Ghost of Randy Savage

[Stress On The Sky]

Gumby I get you're curious but noone here can offer you anything better than "They don't want to and therefore shouldn't have to" because we cannot read their minds and ultimately even if we could it wouldn't alter the outcome so altogether this is fruitless.

 

2 minutes ago, The Ghost of Randy Savage said:

There is no reason to debate or theorize about why he doesn't want to do it because we're not Aaron and we can't read his thoughts. Why would we want to debate hypothetical reasons why someone possibly doesn't want to play shows?

We're not talking philosophy here, we're talking, "this person doesn't want to do something and no one knows why."

The thing is the rest of us can respect that decision and not need to know why. It's what he wants, so who cares what the reason is?

Shit randy beat me to it

 

[Gumbo72203]

1 minute ago, The Ghost of Randy Savage said:

There is no reason to debate or theorize about why he doesn't want to do it because we're not Aaron and we can't read his thoughts. Why would we want to debate hypothetical reasons why someone possibly doesn't want to play shows?

We're not talking philosophy here, we're talking, "this person doesn't want to do something and no one knows why."

The thing is the rest of us can respect that decision and not need to know why. It's what he wants, so who cares what the reason is?

I mean, that's great for you...  but for myself, I'll still always be curious and want to know.  It's just the way I am.  I'm always hyper-curious about why people do the things they do, and what makes them arrive at their conclusions.  Because I like comparing it to my own cognition, it's so fascinating to me how 2 people can have utterly different takes on the same thing.  I can't not want to dig deeper and further uncover it.  It's interesting to me that others here aren't so inclined to want to get into their favorite artists' heads that way! 

[mcpherson123]

12 minutes ago, Gumbo72203 said:

 I'm just utterly fascinated by what would go into the decision to turn away from something that would bring joy to so many people, how you would arrive there.  Like, when they think about getting back together for shows, I'm just super curious about what kind of thoughts and feelings are going on inside their heads.

One of the things they've done to bring joy to people through their music is to re-release their last album which is out of print and difficult to find on vinyl  through an awesome label that has put out many high quality and reasonably priced reissues and represses for the band in the past. Its a lot easier to get an album back on vinyl than it is to get 5 guys (don't forget instrument techs, backline equipment, lighting and live sound mixers) coordinated to book a major tour across any number of countries under a name that has, since they've disbanded, been defamed and associated with horrible acts of vicious violence by the entire world's news media. Again, that's assuming they even want to. They might not want to despite all that.

Edited December 15, 2016 by mcpherson123

[Gumbo72203]

2 minutes ago, Stress On The Sky said:

Gumby I get you're curious but noone here can offer you anything better than "They don't want to and therefore shouldn't have to" because we cannot read their minds and ultimately even if we could it wouldn't alter the outcome so altogether this is fruitless.

ah, well... for me, it's fun to speculate!

[TheGhostOfRandySavage]

3 minutes ago, Gumbo72203 said:

ah, well... for me, it's fun to speculate!

But it isn't fun for anyone else. You're doing the opposite of what you want Isis to do...you keep going even though people are asking you to stop. 

[coreystevens88]

8 minutes ago, Gumbo72203 said:

ah, well... for me, it's fun to speculate!

You aren't speculating - you're hammering home the same point that you wish they'd play live over and over and adding nothing to the conversation.  They aren't going to do it and no one on VC can give you any more insight than what you already know to be true.