wire Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 (edited) Hi there today i set up my new debut carbon with ortofon om10 and rega fono mini to an old sony hifi and the results are bright sounding system. After an hour or so of listening im tired of the sound and i have a slight headache.. Is this because ortofon is not burned in? Please tell me your opinion or what to do for more smooth sound.. thanks Edited May 30, 2017 by wire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjorn Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 Lots of factors can lead to what you're describing. If you play a CD or digital file on the same system, does it exhibit the same brightness? If it does, that probably points more to your amp/speakers than your turntable setup. If not, then it might point to your table, cart, or preamp combo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wire Posted May 30, 2017 Author Share Posted May 30, 2017 (edited) Speakers are bright with digital files as well but i feel more with turntable/phono. Also i check again connections,VTF and i see with a bubble spirit,platter is not level.. i use it in all over the platter. the bubble is not out the circle,but not in the center eithher. Please tell me if is ok as it is.. Edited May 30, 2017 by wire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannibal Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 What did you check the VTF with? Too light of VTF will cause the sound to be thin and overly trebly, which may be what you are hearing. That coupled with what are saying is already a bright sounding system would be a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wire Posted May 31, 2017 Author Share Posted May 31, 2017 I have dynavox tpm 001 digital gauze and the reading is 1.59 in ortofon om 10.. now im trying to level it but the readings on spirit level is ok in the centre and a little off (still in the bubble circle but not dead on) in back of the platter.. is this ok or can damage my records?? Please help,im new to this and im frustrated.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allenh Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Sounds like the system is bright anyway but as @kannibal says if the tracking force is too low it will make things worse. Check the tracking force but also try moving the speakers around, if they are ported then they may be too close to walls or other things that are sapping the bass, also are they at listening height? It's a bit of a long shot and not exactly scientific but you could try moving yourself around and standing or sitting in different places in the room to see if it improves, if it does that will give you an idea of where to move the speakers to. Also what are the amp and speakers? And lastly just making sure all the eventualities are covered the amp hasn't got a phono input on the amp that you are plugging the Rega into does it? If so plug it into any other input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wire Posted May 31, 2017 Author Share Posted May 31, 2017 (edited) debut carbon with ortofon om10 and rega fono mini to an old sony hifi audio in is the setup,anyway i found my turntable is not leveled enough. someone tell me how to level the project debut,there are no adjustable feet as i can see.. also i have to level the furniture the turntable is in or only the platter? Edited May 31, 2017 by wire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjorn Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 allenh brings up lots of good points so check all that stuff. I would cut up some small pieces of cardstock or similar material and place them under the feet of your table until the platter is level. You can level either the table or the furniture, whatever works. Leveling is important, but I don't think it will solve the brightness issue, and as long as it's at least close to level I don't think you need to be too concerned about damage. From what you're describing I think you'll want to get some better speakers at some point soon. You can also try deadening the room a bit with more sound absorbent/diffusing material. I have a bit of an issue with that since I have hardwood floors. Addressing the room acoustics probably won't fix it entirely, but it should help. Also, I imagine you have some kind of EQ on your system? It's not ideal according to most audio people, but nudging the treble down for the time being might be worth a try. Are you experiencing a lack of bass presence as well, or is it just that the treble is too pronounced? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wire Posted May 31, 2017 Author Share Posted May 31, 2017 thanks for the info,im trying to level the platter but its difficult.. in the center is ok but in other places is a bit off anyway ill try more... i have also i set of logitech speakers with more neutral sound,i will try them too.. yeah there is a little lack of bass also.. anyway thanks and keep postin ideas especially for leveling.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tardcore Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 if leveling is an issue, you should level the surface, not the turntable. if the floor/cabinet/whatever are unlevelable, you may be better off just building a wall mounted shelf for the turntable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wire Posted June 1, 2017 Author Share Posted June 1, 2017 (edited) I try to level the turntable but i cant. debut carbon has not adjustable feet so i try with old cds under feet . Also i think the floor is not level.. im frustrated and its my first turntable,now im afraid ill ruin my lps... Edited June 1, 2017 by wire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlegg Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 It seems like you're getting extremely hung up on the leveling bit. I won't say its not important, but with your system, its not that important, and likely will not fix your issue. You haven't exactly said what your amp and speakers are, but you did say "to an old Sony hi-fi audio" and you mentioned a more neutral sounding pair of Logitech speakers, and this all leads me to believe that you could have your TT as level as all get out, but your system will still sound like garbage. Check the beginners thread for some recommendations for speakers and an amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allenh Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 4 hours ago, Jlegg said: It seems like you're getting extremely hung up on the leveling bit. I won't say its not important, but with your system, its not that important, and likely will not fix your issue. You haven't exactly said what your amp and speakers are, but you did say "to an old Sony hi-fi audio" and you mentioned a more neutral sounding pair of Logitech speakers, and this all leads me to believe that you could have your TT as level as all get out, but your system will still sound like garbage. Check the beginners thread for some recommendations for speakers and an amp. Yep pretty much what I'm thinking, the OP is getting hung up on the leveling and unless it's obvious to the eye that the tables on a slant I wouldn't worry too much. Everything has a sweet spot no matter how bad the equipment but that sweet spot will be as good as it gets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wire Posted June 1, 2017 Author Share Posted June 1, 2017 (edited) My issue now is leveling not the sound,i dont want to ruin my lps... After all when i place a record in the platter and then the bubble the readings are good,but without record is not.. also is normal for tonearm to move a little? Edited June 2, 2017 by wire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinyl addict Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 The tonearm moving is due to an off center record. The OM10 is said to be a "bright" cart/stylus by some people. It may be the cart. Are you sure the VTA is correct? How did you check it? As for the leveling issue, the platter itself is probably warped/not sitting level on the subplatter, which is giving you the weird readings with the level. Pro-ject isn't exactly known for quality control. Notice any motor hum? Also, don't use a spirit level. Use a torpedo level. Place it on the platter, and rotate the platter, making sure it's level all the way around. Don't worry about getting the plinth level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wire Posted June 2, 2017 Author Share Posted June 2, 2017 (edited) tonearm start to move only in the last track as i can see.. No i dont notice anything like hum. I dont know how to check VTA.. also when i use a record and then the bubble the readings are ok,in platter itself the bubble has an error all the way when i place it in outer edge of the platter ,all the readings are in the opposite direction when i rotate it. Edited June 2, 2017 by wire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wire Posted June 2, 2017 Author Share Posted June 2, 2017 (edited) edit: video deleted Edited June 2, 2017 by wire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlegg Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 I couldn't tell anything from your video due to you moving the camera around so much... If your plinth is level, but your platter is not, then to the best of my knowledge you have one of two problems: platter is warped, or your spindle is bent. To determine which it is, place our platter upside down on a known flat surface. look all the way around the where the platter meets the surface. Is there any gaps? If no, place it back on spindle and hold a ruler next to platter. Watch the platter as it spins around. Do you see the platter raising and lowering in height by more than a mm or so? If so, this is likely a bent spindle. Please someone correct me if I am wrong. I have a Yamaha YP-D71 that had a bent spindle and this is how i determined that, and then was able to tap the spindle back into alignment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinyl addict Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 Research, and make sure your VTA is correct. A cart at the wrong angle will give a more high sound. The platter looks pretty flat to me, but as mentioned the camera kept moving around so it's hard to be sure. Did you use a torpedo level as I mentioned? Those spirit levels are useless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wire Posted June 2, 2017 Author Share Posted June 2, 2017 (edited) thanks for the info but VTA is not adjustable in debut carbon,also i cant find anything about how to check if VTA is correct. At the moment i don't have a torpedo level,can you tell a a good brand? i think not the magnetic ones,right? Edited June 2, 2017 by wire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinyl addict Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 (edited) Just grab a torpedo level from Craftsman or a Home Depot. Just don't buy one where the level is made of plastic. For VTA to be perfect, the tonearm should be perfectly level when a record is playing. If it tilts up toward the cart, or down toward the pivot point, it will affect the sound of the cart. My guess is your issue is the cart itself, as I mentioned in another post, the OM10 is known for sounding a bit bright on some setups. If it were me, I would have gone with a Music Hall, Regards, or something else over a Pro-ject Carbon. Is it too late to start over? If you don't have problems with that turntable yet, you probably will. Do a Google search for reciews/issues with the Carbon. There's even another thread about it on the first page of this section of the forums. Edited June 2, 2017 by vinyl addict Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wire Posted June 2, 2017 Author Share Posted June 2, 2017 (edited) the most aluminum ones are also magnetic so a 20cm plastic one is ok? Edited June 2, 2017 by wire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinyl addict Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 Magnetic is fine, as I said don't buy plastic... Just use the level with the magnetic side up. It's not rocket science. I have no idea what you were trying to say in your second sentence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wire Posted June 2, 2017 Author Share Posted June 2, 2017 ok man its not my native language so dont be rude.. anyway thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slinch Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 Don't listen to vinyl addict, you don't need to check the VTA, it is factory set and since you still have the original cartridge on there it will be fine. And since you cannot change the VTA anyway, you're more likely to damage something than to do any good. Don't worry about the table being perfectly level either, if it's uneven it will have a negative effect on the turntable bearing in the long run, but it definitely won't affect how your records sound. The tonearm moves slightly left/right and up/down during play because records aren't perfect. It's totally fine and you don't need to worry about it. The "bright" sound, from the setup you listed, could very well be the sony's fault. If it's an old receiver from the late 80s or early 90s (a model number would help), those often sound overly bright. The ortofon cartridge also isn't known as a well balanced performer, but it's to be expected from an entry level cart. wire 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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