MLB Discussion

[andrew13]

why the hell is this game not on tv? and why is pearce not starting? michaels is great off the bench, but usually sucks when he starts. pearce needs to get regular at bats and try to prove himself.

[mediocore]

Southern California just became an even better place to watch baseball. Wow.

Pirates made out pretty well too. It's funny, but the loser in this whole deal is probably Boston. Bay's good, but he's no Manny.

I'm going to have to disagree. I think Boston robbed this trade. They shed an unpredictable whiner of a player and replaced him with a solid corner bat, not just for this year, but for next year too. That's where the value of this deal is. Boston just got considerably better for next year since they weren't bringing Manny back, without having to make a long-term costly committment to a free agent. The only other parts they gave up were a reliever with horrible mechanics and command and a 4th OFer. They'll see a downgrade in offense for the rest of the year, but I bet losing Manny doesn't cost them more than a win or two.

Really though, there's no clear cut loser in this deal. It's rare, but I think this is going to work out for all 3 teams. LA got an impact bat, in a division wide open for taking, without giving up any players making immediate impacts. In my opinion, they've always undervalued LaRoche, but that's neither here nor there since he wasn't playing to begin with.

The Pirates made out well because they need depth more than anything at this point, 4 players is a great haul for Bay. LaRoche is the type of high OBP guy they need in that lineup. They're defintiely headed in the right direction, similar to what the O's did during the offseason.

For next year the Sox are in a better position than they would have been with Manny, that's for sure. They'll have way more flexibility to sign other players.

But as far as 2008 goes, I think they come out worse than PIT or LAD. They're in a dog fight in the East and losing a win or two could make the difference in the playoff race.

I agree with you though -- no one really "loses". The Bucs picked up some decent prospects, the Dodgers are in great shape to win the West, and the Sox put themselves in a good position for 2009.

I just think, given each team's situation, the Sox had more to lose in 2008 by dealing Manny.

[mediocore]

Waaaaaay too early to make that kind of judgment call. Dewitt has amassed 280 AB's and LaRoche only has 152 at the big league level.

Even so, LaRoche has more BB and two less HR in 128 less AB's. (DeWitt's probably the better defender, however.)

I think he would've been the best long-term third baseman for the Dodgers had they given him the chance.

I specifically said in their MLB time. Didn't say that time was indicative of their entire career just DeWitt in his time has looked far better dealing with far more than LaRoche ever has. Not to say DeWitt will be a better player just that he has been to this point.

LaRoche: .348 OBP, .316 SLG, .664 OBPS

DeWitt: .324 OBP, .364 SLG, .688 OBPS

Gotcha.

[andrew13]

When/If the pirates sign Alvarez they'll have to figure out what to do with LaRoche at 3B since Alvarez plays 3B and was their #1 pick this year. I'm just glad to see that through the 8 players they got in the trades, 5 of them are pitchers! Thats really the only weakness to the Pirates is their lackluster rotation/bullpen/farm system. McCutchen, McClouth and Moss will dominate the OF for a few years for sure

An LaRoche plays 2nd and SS also. so he could be moved there. i think walker needs to move back to catcher, if we sign Alvarez. Doumit can then move to the OF or 1st. i still like Pearce to play regularly too.

[andrew13]

and michaels proves me wrong in his first at bat. haha.

[Guest baseball]

When/If the pirates sign Alvarez they'll have to figure out what to do with LaRoche at 3B since Alvarez plays 3B and was their #1 pick this year. I'm just glad to see that through the 8 players they got in the trades, 5 of them are pitchers! Thats really the only weakness to the Pirates is their lackluster rotation/bullpen/farm system. McCutchen, McClouth and Moss will dominate the OF for a few years for sure

An LaRoche plays 2nd and SS also. so he could be moved there. i think walker needs to move back to catcher, if we sign Alvarez. Doumit can then move to the OF or 1st. i still like Pearce to play regularly too.

I seriously doubt LaRoche could play short. If he could play SS adequately, with his bat, he'd be there already. Not sure about 2B.

[andrew13]

i was reading that last night on Dejan's blog i believe. he said neal has no plans to move him there though.

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

if anything, I think the 3B to OF is the easiest transition. look at Ryan Braun, 16 errors last year at 3B, zero this year in LF and his production has increased at bat. I love milwaukee, Ryan Braun is my favorite player right now.

[sgoodcore]

An LaRoche plays 2nd and SS also. so he could be moved there. i think walker needs to move back to catcher, if we sign Alvarez. Doumit can then move to the OF or 1st. i still like Pearce to play regularly too.

I seriously doubt LaRoche could play short. If he could play SS adequately, with his bat, he'd be there already. Not sure about 2B.

I still say this vaunted bat people keep referring to is a myth. He hit 21 home runs in high A ball in 63 games. Other than that, he's a good dude for OBP but not for a mesmerizing shtick. Especially considering in his time with Las Vegas a big time hitters park he hit 18 home runs. Granted his slugging was high and his OBPS was great, almost a grand. I still don't see him as more than a slightly above average major league hitter. All that said I'm sure from here on out he'll murder the Dodgers.

if anything, I think the 3B to OF is the easiest transition. look at Ryan Braun, 16 errors last year at 3B, zero this year in LF and his production has increased at bat. I love milwaukee, Ryan Braun is my favorite player right now.

Thankfully for Braun a mental error isn't counted as an error as he's made quite a few in my little time watching the Brew-Crew. Made up for it with his stick but still he's not a great outfielder.

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

you also need to keep in mind, Ryan Braun has played LF ONLY this year. In the minors and all of last year he was at 3B, he never played in the OF ever. So to make that transition in the offseason, at his age and skill, well you have to be impressed with his transition. Zero errors and 7 assists, not to shabby.

[sgoodcore]

you also need to keep in mind, Ryan Braun has played LF ONLY this year. In the minors and all of last year he was at 3B, he never played in the OF ever. So to make that transition in the offseason, at his age and skill, well you have to be impressed with his transition. Zero errors and 7 assists, not to shabby.

Quite true.

[Guest baseball]

I seriously doubt LaRoche could play short. If he could play SS adequately, with his bat, he'd be there already. Not sure about 2B.

I still say this vaunted bat people keep referring to is a myth. He hit 21 home runs in high A ball in 63 games. Other than that, he's a good dude for OBP but not for a mesmerizing shtick. Especially considering in his time with Las Vegas a big time hitters park he hit 18 home runs. Granted his slugging was high and his OBPS was great, almost a grand. I still don't see him as more than a slightly above average major league hitter. All that said I'm sure from here on out he'll murder the Dodgers.

He's not a power hitter, I know that. OBP is the most significant statistic in relation to a team's chance of scoring runs, that's very important. He's a double hitter that will hit the occasional homerun and is on base a lot. That's a very valuable player to have in your lineup. He also hasn't even finished developing yet, his power is to be determined but will probably be pretty average. Just because he isn't going to hit 30 homeruns, it doesn't mean he won't be more valuable than someone who does.

His minor league track record gives every reason to believe he'll be an above average hitter while playing average defense. He wasn't given even close to a fair shot in LA. I just find it strange that LA, complaining about not being able to add salary, gave up a player with a solid skillset who is going to be cheap for the next few years.

[Guest baseball]

I swear I'm not just being a contrarian here, but errors are a junk stat. They're so subjective.

They don't account for the fact that there's 30 different official scorers who call them, often with hometeam biases. They don't account for the fact that a player with more range gets more opportunities to make plays and thus might make more errors. They don't penalize a player who misplays a ball if he doesn't actually touch it. So on and so on.

Defense would be better measured by looking at a player's range, routes taken to balls, hands, arm, etc. All relative to how often they make the plays.

[mediocore]

I swear I'm not just being a contrarian here, but errors are a junk stat. They're so subjective.

They don't account for the fact that there's 30 different official scorers who call them, often with hometeam biases. They don't account for the fact that a player with more range gets more opportunities to make plays and thus might make more errors. They don't penalize a player who misplays a ball if he doesn't actually touch it. So on and so on.

Defense would be better measured by looking at a player's range, routes taken to balls, hands, arm, etc. All relative to how often they make the plays.

Word -- you can't evaluate a player's defense skill-set by only looking at errors.

Just like ERA/Wins with pitchers, etc.

[sgoodcore]

He's not a power hitter, I know that. OBP is the most significant statistic in relation to a team's chance of scoring runs, that's very important. He's a double hitter that will hit the occasional homerun and is on base a lot. That's a very valuable player to have in your lineup. He also hasn't even finished developing yet, his power is to be determined but will probably be pretty average. Just because he isn't going to hit 30 homeruns, it doesn't mean he won't be more valuable than someone who does.

His minor league track record gives every reason to believe he'll be an above average hitter while playing average defense. He wasn't given even close to a fair shot in LA. I just find it strange that LA, complaining about not being able to add salary, gave up a player with a solid skillset who is going to be cheap for the next few years.

Trust me when I say this, the Dodgers gave him as fair of a shot as you give a .200 hitter. Dude did not produce for the Dodgers. He didn't get consistent playing time, sure. The Dodgers gave him up because you can't have a line-up of dudes who hit 15HRs and get on base .375 of the time. It doesn't work. You can't compete against teams with a line-up of dudes who hit 20-45HRs and can get on base near a .350 clip, some doing much better than that. They needed big hitters and 3B is a power position. He just doesn't fit with the Dodgers, never has.

Trust me when I tell you this, I watch a ton of Dodger games. For all the potential he just never did anything. Blame the Dodgers, blame LaRoche, blame whomever he needed to leave and the Dodgers could afford to let him go. They have Loney, Ethier, Kemp, and Martin. They need to fill holes at 2B, SS, and 3B. That is if Furcal doesn't come back. Sure, LaRoche could have been the answer at either 2B or 3B but he hasn't done a damn thing at the major league level to this point to make anyone believe he can. That's the only point. For all the potential during his time with the team he hasn't done anything.

[Guest baseball]

I think the disconnect here is in the definition of fair shot. In my opinion, a fair shot is the better part of a season. Not 200ABs, that is a tiny sample size when you're talking about a young player. Not many players do anything worthwhile in their first couple hundred at bats in the majors.

Look at a guy like Adam Jones on the O's. Horrible first half, but he's now coming around. Same thing happened with Markakis and countless other young players.

The Dodgers are a contending team, I get the lack of willingness to give a fair shot. That's why you see so few young players on the Yankees, Red Sox, etc. I still say they saw Dewitt's strong start, thought they could catch lightning in a bottle, and never gave LaRoche a fair shot. Dewitt has reverted back to the player he was in the minors and they had to give up prospects to get Casey Blake, who is a marginal upgrade for this year, when if they'd just let LaRoche play from the beginning there was a pretty good chance he'd be a solid 3B. His minor league track record didn't say any different. They could have used other less proven prospects to acquire Ramirez if they had to.

Just my .02, I think we've talked this to death .

[sgoodcore]

Probably, what's irks me to be honest is how much people are talking up LaRoche in the media and talking down the Dodgers for their treatment but don't address that he hasn't done much at all at the major league level. I guess comparing him to Matt Kemp who came up and feasted isn't too fair.

[mediocore]

An oft-cited example of a player who struggled early and bounced back is Mike Schmidt.

He hit .206 in 34 AB's in '72 and .196 in 367 AB's in '73. (He did hit for power, however). His second "full" season in '74 was solid and he never looked back.

Of course, the Phils sucked in the early 70's and the Dodgers have a shot at the playoffs, so it's not completely apples-to-apples. But there's something to be said for giving a guy a fair shot at getting into a rhythm and performing on the field.

I don't think LaRoche got that in LA.

[sgoodcore]

We'll just have to agree to disagree then.

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

Karstan just pitched 6 shutout innings against the Cubs in Chicago, Pirates won 3 - 0. That is very impressive. 101 pitches, 61 strikes, 2 SO, 4 BB, not bad really.

Pirates needed to trade for pitching prospects and looks like they got at least one decent pitcher in all the trades. Moss went 0-4, LaRoche went 1-4 and scored a run, and Michaels went 2-3 with a HR and 2 RBI's, and I think he's gunna be playing quiet a bit more, now iwth both corner OF's gone, and I like that.

[travis]

Angels just took the first 2 games from NY. That game right there showed why the Angels are the best team in baseball. When they dont score a bunch of runs they get excellent pitching, defense and timely hitting.

Hey Girardi, way to go to Rivera before you got the lead. He should be watching Scioscia and taking notes on how to coach. I guarantee Girardi didnt learn a damn thing from Torre (the most over rated coach of all time).

[mediocore]

Hey Girardi, way to go to Rivera before you got the lead. He should be watching Scioscia and taking notes on how to coach. I guarantee Girardi didnt learn a damn thing from Torre (the most over rated coach of all time).

I would've pitched Rivera too. I'd think in a 0-0 game late, you'd want your best pitcher pitching in that kind of high-leverage situation.

Saves can be pretty overrated.

[benchwarmer]

Jason Bay scored both red sox runs tonight. pretty cool.

[andrew13]

Jason Bay scored both red sox runs tonight. pretty cool.

you're welcome.

[andrew13]

Karstan just pitched 6 shutout innings against the Cubs in Chicago, Pirates won 3 - 0. That is very impressive. 101 pitches, 61 strikes, 2 SO, 4 BB, not bad really.

Pirates needed to trade for pitching prospects and looks like they got at least one decent pitcher in all the trades. Moss went 0-4, LaRoche went 1-4 and scored a run, and Michaels went 2-3 with a HR and 2 RBI's, and I think he's gunna be playing quiet a bit more, now iwth both corner OF's gone, and I like that.

hopefully pearce starts playing more. move him back to first. dougie mxyzptlk was 0-5.