Random Vinyl Shipping Rant: Split Seams

[prowl20]

On 12/21/2020 at 2:51 PM, curator said:

I’m sure I’m not the only one, but I always add a note to ship the record outside of the jacket to prevent seam splits which the seller almost always does. That’s for used LPs though.

I did this recently when ordering a cheapish copy of Rock Action by Mogwai on eBay. The guy not only didn’t do it, but he only used a TINY bit of tissue paper as padding with no extra cardboard or anything on an already super flimsy mailer. I messaged him saying I didn’t want a refund or return but like,  for future buyers PLEASE for the love of god do a better job at mailing your records. He refunded me the shipping cost which honesty I would have a rather him just kept the $3 and me getting to leave a negative review but whatever. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

[prowl20]

On 12/21/2020 at 4:00 PM, shenanigans said:

2 things I do when shipping unsealed records - ship the record outset the jacket and put it in a paper sleeve if it has a printed inner.

I wish more people did this 

[TheGhostOfRandySavage]

Since it seems like nobody has come in here and said it yet...maybe don't be such a baby about it?

 

Like...unless its a big company like amazon, or you specifically requested it be shipped outside its cover get over it. Shit happens in transit.

[prowl20]

6 hours ago, ROVVLES said:

Agreed 100%. It is the seller's responsibility to ensure that items arrived undamaged.

 

I can semi-agree with someone above who said there is no way to ensure 100% against damage, but I would argue that better packaging practices can eliminate a vast majority.  Some places still use a single LP mailer, or a single box that can easily be damaged by one careless drop, or by being smashed by heavier packages in transit.

 

There is no excuse for sending items worth $50 or more in simple cardboard box when items can easily be double boxed and shipped media mail without adding too much to costs. The investment in packaging is worth the money saved in potential returns, or money lost from buyers who may be deterred from making additional purchases from sellers who don't pack securely.

Yeah, this happened to me when buying a new record over seas. They didn't ship the records outside the jacket. I received the record in May with very bad split seams,  Contacted the small inde label, even offering to pay for shipping if they could send another cover, they said they would after the first message I sent them. I’ve followed up twice since then and still haven’t received anything. I’m kinda pissed. 

[Oblivions]

It seems to happen to me randomly. I don’t really care about jacket damage.
 

Warps bug me a little more as, these days, the option to resell a record when money is tight is always on my mind and a bad warp can be the difference between getting full market value or 50-60% market value when the day to let the record go inevitably comes. You can sell a used record for close to market value if all that’s wrong is a bend or split...most buyers don’t really care as long as you’re upfront.

 

Larger point, I used to think there were records I could never get rid of and that I’d own forever. Not so much anymore. Anything that comes in will probably, at some point, get sold off or passed to a friend/family member for their birthday/holidays.

Edited December 23, 2020 by Oblivions

[swallowtales]

I always ask for records to be shipped outside sleeves, and that has almost completely eliminated it for me (even though I'm all the way in New Zealand). 

I figure if I always ask, and they don't do it and damage happens, that's on them and I did everything I could to avoid it - and I feel justified in asking for a new cover.

[MrScorpio]

Sellers can always choose to ship how ever they want. Buyers can always choose to return if the items don't arrive in the stated condition. Yeah, sh*t does happen in transit. All the more reason to package with care. Album covers are part of the product. If I'm shipping vinyl to people in pizza boxes and then calling them babies when they want to return their damaged orders, that just makes me look like a bad seller. Bad sellers have been allowed to get away with a lot, but thankfully these days many sellers have been upgrading their packaging as we all know that standard LP mailers offer minimal protection. It doesn't take much for us to step up our shipping game. Just my two cents.

Edited December 23, 2020 by ROVVLES

[prowl20]

5 hours ago, ROVVLES said:

Sellers can always choose to ship how ever they want. Buyers can always choose to return if the items don't arrive in the stated condition. Yeah, sh*t does happen in transit. All the more reason to package with care. Album covers are part of the product. If I'm shipping vinyl to people in pizza boxes and then calling them babies when they want to return their damaged orders, that just makes me look like a bad seller. Bad sellers have been allowed to get away with a lot, but thankfully these days many sellers have been upgrading their packaging as we all know that standard LP mailers offer minimal protection. It doesn't take much for us to step up our shipping game. Just my two cents.

Yeah, I truthfully don't think I've ever seen a whiplash mailer until this year. I like them. I'm not sure if I prefer them over standard mailers because they can sometimes be harder to repackage up (specifically if they're perforated) but if it means my record will get to me more safely I honestly can't complain

 

[tipyourbartender]

When I sell a record, I take 2-3 minutes or more to carefully pack it because it is usually rare, out of print, and not easily replaceable. I take a lot of effort to make sure the buyer gets it in the same condition it left. Always supply them in a poly sleeve and ship the records outside of the jacket.

 

I understand that the labels and distros we buy new records from don't have the time and resources to spend that much time packing. Some days they might need to ship 100's of records or more and they need to be really quick and efficient. You are lucky to get a piece of bubble wrap thrown in there. If one record out of a thousand gets messed up in transit, it's relatively easy for them to replace or refund. 

 

I think some of it might have to do with crappier quality jackets and inner-sleeves. I've noticed that the higher quality materials used on some of my more premium records don't have any seams splits or significant signs of wear. Whereas a lot of the stuff I have released by smaller labels on tighter budgets have more things like seam splits and ring wear. I presume it's because they opted for the cheaper jackets and such. 

[drds89]

20 hours ago, unknown pleasures said:

I refuse to believe a 180 gram record without a split inner sleeve exists.

 

Never seen one. Never will.

It's December 23rd, and I have a lot of presents to wrap.... but a challenge like this has me itching to pull out my 180 gm vinyl to inspect those with printed inners (I store in Diskeepers after cleaning, and put the printed inner, into the outer jacket). I'll post one if I get a chance - and also if they are all split too!!

[MrScorpio]

4 minutes ago, drds89 said:

It's December 23rd, and I have a lot of presents to wrap.... but a challenge like this has me itching to pull out my 180 gm vinyl to inspect those with printed inners (I store in Diskeepers after cleaning, and put the printed inner, into the outer jacket). I'll post one if I get a chance - and also if they are all split too!!

Didn't they give a Nobel Prize to a guy who cracked only the knuckles on one hand, and never cracked the knuckles on the other hand; all in order to determine if the old myth of knuckle cracking causing arthritis was true or not? 😄

[MrScorpio]

14 minutes ago, tipyourbartender said:

I understand that the labels and distros we buy new records from don't have the time and resources to spend that much time packing. Some days they might need to ship 100's of records or more and they need to be really quick and efficient. You are lucky to get a piece of bubble wrap thrown in there. If one record out of a thousand gets messed up in transit, it's relatively easy for them to replace or refund.

I can understand that aspect of things. I'm also much less likely to complain about corner dents on a single LP of standard retail value. But if I buy a $50 album from someone on the bay or discogs and it says cover is NM but it arrives with corner dents, I'm going to be a bit less understanding. It can also really suck to spend $100+ on multiple vinyl from a label or distro only to have them packed in a box where all the items get dinged by one drop on a corner. Media mail is already a money saver, so it doesn't add much to costs to double box something.

 

Then again, I'm not a distro shipping hundreds of items every day. I can only speak as a discogs seller. All I can do is try to ship items the way I would want to receive them myself.

[TheGhostOfRandySavage]

11 minutes ago, ROVVLES said:

All I can do is try to ship items the way I would want to receive them myself.

As everyone should. The way some folks in here are complaining makes it seem like every album they've gotten over the last year has had issues. Maybe I've just been lucky, but I (unfortunately) couldn't tell you the last time I actually got to go into a shop and buy a record, so most of my purchases over the last year have been via mail. Of those I can count on one hand the number that have had seam splits.

 

Sure, it's frustrating. I just think people in here blow this shit out of proportion.

 

Edit: I remembered the last thing I bought in store. I got a 1972 copy of Genesis - Foxtrot that turned out to be a misprint though it wasn't marked as such. Two Side-A's. ::womp woooomp::

Edited December 24, 2020 by MachoHommeRandallSauvage

[JustSchwimmer]

On 12/22/2020 at 6:48 PM, ROVVLES said:

Agreed 100%. It is the seller's responsibility to ensure that items arrived undamaged.

 

I can semi-agree with someone above who said there is no way to ensure 100% against damage, but I would argue that better packaging practices can eliminate a vast majority.  Some places still use a single LP mailer, or a single box that can easily be damaged by one careless drop, or by being smashed by heavier packages in transit.

 

There is no excuse for sending items worth $50 or more in simple cardboard box when items can easily be double boxed and shipped media mail without adding too much to costs. The investment in packaging is worth the money saved in potential returns, or money lost from buyers who may be deterred from making additional purchases from sellers who don't pack securely.

Just ask the seller to open the record up and place it outside the jacket and you won't get a seam split. 

[MrScorpio]

Double posted, now I can't delete this... lol

Edited December 24, 2020 by ROVVLES

[MrScorpio]

7 hours ago, MachoHommeRandallSauvage said:

Of those I can count on one hand the number that have had seam splits.

Likewise regarding seam-splits. Dented corners are another story.

 

7 hours ago, MachoHommeRandallSauvage said:

Edit: I remembered the last thing I bought in store. I got a 1972 copy of Genesis - Foxtrot that turned out to be a misprint though it wasn't marked as such. Two Side-A's. ::womp woooomp::

That sounds like a bonus, imo!

[TheGhostOfRandySavage]

7 hours ago, ROVVLES said:

That sounds like a bonus, imo!

Eh. Just means I have to buy another copy for listening.

[MyEnemy]

21 hours ago, MachoHommeRandallSauvage said:

As everyone should. The way some folks in here are complaining makes it seem like every album they've gotten over the last year has had issues. Maybe I've just been lucky, but I (unfortunately) couldn't tell you the last time I actually got to go into a shop and buy a record, so most of my purchases over the last year have been via mail. Of those I can count on one hand the number that have had seam splits.

On average, I’ve gotten 8 records a week, for the last 52 weeks(this year). I’d say I’ve gotten a record with a seam split once a week this year, give or take.

 

Gets to be a real annoying issue when it happens this often. Especially since they can all be avoided with some people who actually care/collect records in charge. 

[TheGhostOfRandySavage]

2 hours ago, MyEnemy said:

On average, I’ve gotten 8 records a week, for the last 52 weeks(this year). I’d say I’ve gotten a record with a seam split once a week this year, give or take.

 

Gets to be a real annoying issue when it happens this often. Especially since they can all be avoided with some people who actually care/collect records in charge. 

Daaaamn. So you ordered 400+ records this year and had seam splits on ~12% of them? That sucks, but honestly I'd say that isn't too far off what I would expect if a good number of them were bought new/sealed.

 

If you don't mind, were a large percentage of your orders from any one place in particular?

[MyEnemy]

40 minutes ago, MachoHommeRandallSauvage said:

Daaaamn. So you ordered 400+ records this year and had seam splits on ~12% of them? That sucks, but honestly I'd say that isn't too far off what I would expect if a good number of them were bought new/sealed.

 

If you don't mind, were a large percentage of your orders from any one place in particular?

Yeah, something like that. I’d say around 50, give or take, across all formats(7/10/12”s). I tried counting last night, on my Discogs and just couldn’t remember everything or make it through. Haha. But it definitely is a major issue for me, especially since the majority or records I did buy this year were shrink wrapped or just not taken out of jacket, when I specifically ask to do so, whenever I can.
 

Actually no. I got one package from Zia that was fucked, but everything else from them this year was good. Obviously anything I ordered from MerchNow there was a 80% it was going to be fucked up. In the same boat, but getting better, Fat. One crazy one from MerchTable with the Daughters reissue on that crazy heavy stock jacket. Had VMP send me 3 2xLPs and 1 LP in one of their regular mailers with nothing else. Crazy shit. I ordered from almost every goddamn place selling records this year, strange negligence all over the place. Haha. 
 

There are a few things that could stop, most of, this from happening: 1) Have someone that’s sending out records know what the fuck they’re doing. Give them the right materials, and I assure you there will be an, at least, 90% success rate. Very fuckin simple equation. Someone working customer service shouldn’t have to deal with seam splits or dog ears more than anything else. 2) Labels being smart. Smaller labels with a more hands on approach, especially, order everything you’re sending out of your office, or wherever, in poly bags. Whoever’s sending everything out, send accordingly. You can have everything going to stores sent this way too, but if they’re going straight from the plant, there’s the same chance of it getting fucked up so you may as well shrink wrap those. BUT if you go back to #1, you can still shrink everything and not have to worry about it if you have someone competent with the right materials sending out orders. I know moneys an issue, but if you keep getting emails and having to refund people, or send out replacement jackets, what’s going to cost more? 
 

Like most things, I can go on forever about this, but at it’s fucking core, there’s some real simple solutions labels/fulfillment companies can be doing to minimize most damage.

Edited December 25, 2020 by MyEnemy

[JustSchwimmer]

53 minutes ago, MyEnemy said:

Yeah, something like that. I’d say around 50, give or take, across all formats(7/10/12”s). I tried counting last night, on my Discogs and just couldn’t remember everything or make it through. Haha. But it definitely is a major issue for me, especially since the majority or records I did buy this year were shrink wrapped or just not taken out of jacket, when I specifically ask to do so, whenever I can.
 

Actually no. I got one package from Zia that was fucked, but everything else from them this year was good. Obviously anything I ordered from MerchNow there was a 80% it was going to be fucked up. In the same boat, but getting better, Fat. One crazy one from MerchTable with the Daughters reissue on that crazy heavy stock jacket. Had VMP send me 3 2xLPs and 1 LP in one of their regular mailers with nothing else. Crazy shit. I ordered from almost every goddamn place selling records this year, strange negligence all over the place. Haha. 
 

There are a few things that could stop, most of, this from happening: 1) Have someone that’s sending out records know what the fuck they’re doing. Give them the right materials, and I assure you there will be an, at least, 90% success rate. Very fuckin simple equation. Someone working customer service shouldn’t have to deal with seam splits or dog ears more than anything else. 2) Labels being smart. Smaller labels with a more hands on approach, especially, order everything you’re sending out of your office, or wherever, in poly bags. Whoever’s sending everything out, send accordingly. You can have everything going to stores sent this way too, but if they’re going straight from the plant, there’s the same chance of it getting fucked up so you may as well shrink wrap those. BUT if you go back to #1, you can still shrink everything and not have to worry about it if you have someone competent with the right materials sending out orders. I know moneys an issue, but if you keep getting emails and having to refund people, or send out replacement jackets, what’s going to cost more? 
 

Like most things, I can go on forever about this, but at it’s fucking core, there’s some real simple solutions labels/fulfillment companies can be doing to minimize most damage.

Why don't you ask the seller to open the record and place the record outside the sleeve? I'm sure any seller would do that for you and then you don't have to worry about it. 

[MyEnemy]

18 minutes ago, JustSchwimmer said:

Why don't you ask the seller to open the record and place the record outside the sleeve? I'm sure any seller would do that for you and then you don't have to worry about it. 

 

1 hour ago, MyEnemy said:

especially since the majority or records I did buy this year were shrink wrapped or just not taken out of jacket, when I specifically ask to do so, whenever I can.

Not sure if you’re privy to buying new records but a lot of labels/fulfillment companies don’t necessarily give an option to leave a note, nor are they good at following requests on said notes when left.

[TheGhostOfRandySavage]

1 hour ago, MyEnemy said:

Obviously anything I ordered from MerchNow there was a 80% it was going to be fucked up.

 

There are a few things that could stop, most of, this from happening: 1) Have someone that’s sending out records know what the fuck they’re doing. Give them the right materials, and I assure you there will be an, at least, 90% success rate.

So I guess my point from all this is: you seem ok with a 90% success rate from what you said.

 

With the numbers you've given you're at about 88% already, and you know there's a high probability that orders through MerchNow are going to have issues.

 

Stop ordering from MerchNow, the largest percentage of issues it looks like, and it seems like you'll be well above 90% no issues.

 

Moral of the story is that while this CAN happen with any order, if one company consistently has this issue...stop ordering from them. Right?

[MyEnemy]

2 minutes ago, MachoHommeRandallSauvage said:

So I guess my point from all this is: you seem ok with a 90% success rate from what you said.

That was me just tossing out a number, without too much thought. But if we’re being realistic, speaking as someone who did this very job for years, say you’re sending out a few thousand of records a year, if done correctly, it should be more along the lines of 98-99% per release.

 

14 minutes ago, MachoHommeRandallSauvage said:

With the numbers you've given you're at about 88% already, and you know there's a high probability that orders through MerchNow are going to have issues.

 

Stop ordering from MerchNow, the largest percentage of issues it looks like, and it seems like you'll be well above 90% no issues.

 

Moral of the story is that while this CAN happen with any order, if one company consistently has this issue...stop ordering from them. Right?

80% of 5 is 4. Who do I look like Wasda? But the main issue with MN is that they are a company that is consistently having issues and doing nothing about it. Yes, I will continue to buy records from them because I’m an idiot and they have a monopoly.
 

BUT the real moral of the story, for

MerchNow, is, if it’s broke and people are constantly telling you it’s broke, you should fucking fix it. And not charge people an extra dollar for doing your job correctly. 
 

MN isn’t the real issue though, I’m not ordering every bullshit EVR reissue or Fearless record, it’s just lack of attention to detail or improper knowledge of how to pack a record correctly on a huge level, all over the board. Things definitely do happen, but you can bring that number down drastically if done properly.

 

[drds89]

On 12/23/2020 at 12:54 AM, unknown pleasures said:

I refuse to believe a 180 gram record without a split inner sleeve exists.

 

Never seen one. Never will.

Merry Christmas @unknown pleasures!

*Two*180 gm with printed inners - no seam splits - nor the outer jacket either. Caspian, On Circles and Ringo Deathstarr: ST  (see below)

The 2 other 180 gm had generic inner sleeves.  Previous years, I checked about a dozen including some 200 gm represses from Steven Wilson, and no generic inners were split, but the regular stock and thin glossy paper inner sleeves,  most had some splits (some more than others) -- no matter the weight of record.  I remember trying to find copies of ITTCT: Red Forest on Science of Silence in 2012 without inner sleeve splits, and I went through a lot of copies to cull out the 10%. They were not 180 gm, were shipped sealed to SoS, who then openend them and shipped outside the jacket. There were a significant number of outer jacket seam splits, too. That was the turning point for me about either imploding or accepting this is part of vinyl collecting. That being said, I'll do everything possible to ship a record without issues to remain that way upon reaching its destination.

I remember one label was so paranoid from frequent returns, they shipped the vinyl bare naked to slip and slide all around, so the jacket and inners remained as they received them from the plant. Can't remember which album or label it was but I almost $hit my pants opening up that mailer.