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Just now, Fowty Dollaz said:

Ooof taxes suck. Yikes. Good news for Mcpherson: it's black vinyl. That's kinda your thing, right? Pretty worth it, I think.

If this wasn't black vinyl... I probably just would have taken longer to finally breakdown and buy it. But seriously, I may have avoided it altogether if it were pressed on all color or picture disc. 

 

I'm still incredibly let down about the Frances title track. I don't buy that they left if off due to conceptual integrity. They fuckin' forgot to include it and can't admit they fucked up. 

 

And I really wish they had taken to opportunity to break Cassandra over two sides of the same LP. That would have made my brain so happy. 

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They check everyone’s Last.fm and decide by Volta scrobbles per capita. 

Y'all should like this. Two people lost money trying to flip this  

What if FTM is engraved into the box and we have to buy a specialty turntable with 4 inches between the platter and needle so we can play it?

28 minutes ago, mcpherson123 said:

If this wasn't black vinyl... I probably just would have taken longer to finally breakdown and buy it. But seriously, I may have avoided it altogether if it were pressed on all color or picture disc. 

 

 

 

I'm still incredibly let down about the Frances title track. I don't buy that they left if off due to conceptual integrity. They fuckin' forgot to include it and can't admit they fucked up. 

 
 
 
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And I really wish they had taken to opportunity to break Cassandra over two sides of the same LP. That would have made my brain so happy. 

Honestly, as much as I hate to say it...umm...aloud: the whole thing is a fly by night cash grab. They're gonna use all the old plates, a couple new ones, make a book and box. The TMV will bank over half a million and do whatever they were gonna do anyway. But, here I am buying at first chance. 

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There's no way the lack of FtM the song wasn't just a licensing issue. They don't really have the rights to their music and were too cheap to include the FtM 12" because that's extra fees for something they must have deemed not worth it. The extra 3 discs of bonus content from De-Loused are only there to pad this out with stuff they didn't need to pay to license.

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43 minutes ago, Fowty Dollaz said:

Honestly, as much as I hate to say it...umm...aloud: the whole thing is a fly by night cash grab. They're gonna use all the old plates, a couple new ones, make a book and box. The TMV will bank over half a million and do whatever they were gonna do anyway. But, here I am buying at first chance. 

If it came out that these weren't all actual physically remastered I'd sell it off in a heartbeat. 

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38 minutes ago, Your Ex-Wife said:

There's no way the lack of FtM the song wasn't just a licensing issue. They don't really have the rights to their music and were too cheap to include the FtM 12" because that's extra fees for something they must have deemed not worth it. The extra 3 discs of bonus content from De-Loused are only there to pad this out with stuff they didn't need to pay to license.

But why would just that song not be included in them regaining the rights to their entire catalog to produce this set? 

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28 minutes ago, mcpherson123 said:

But why would just that song not be included in them regaining the rights to their entire catalog to produce this set? 

They. Did. Not. Regain. The. Rights.

 

It's pretty clear from that interview that they're mad about it

Edited by Your Ex-Wife
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18 minutes ago, Derek™ said:

What are the odds that MOV has an agreement to let the dust settle from this box before swooping in and releasing a complete Frances with the title track?  They did De-Loused justice, Omar’s tantrums be damned.

I kind of want to believe him and then remembered it was probably his idea to release the "actual analog master" on garbage silver picture discs back when it "was done right" lol. The MOV copy sounded decent enough so this better blow it out of the water if he wants any credibility back.

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1 hour ago, Your Ex-Wife said:

They. Did. Not. Regain. The. Rights.

 

It's pretty clear from that interview that they're mad about it

I read that whole interview and I did not get that from it. It seems like they have the rights to use the recorded masters for vinyl. 

 

What did I miss? 

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11 minutes ago, mcpherson123 said:

I read that whole interview and I did not get that from it. It seems like they have the rights to use the recorded masters for vinyl. 

 

What did I miss? 

He said they did but if they actually did then their lawyer would have told them to stick with the lawsuit and other labels wouldn't have gotten permission to begin with. I'm guessing the now defunct GSL label he ran had the rights and then lost them when they folded.

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1 minute ago, Your Ex-Wife said:

He said they did but if they actually did then their lawyer would have told them to stick with the lawsuit and other labels wouldn't have gotten permission to begin with. I'm guessing the now defunct GSL label he ran had the rights and then lost them when they folded.

Ok. I've just re-read that part. I don't think that that is sufficient evidence to contradict the claim that they were granted all vinyl rights from the first contract that they initially signed back in the early 2000's. 

 

My takeaway from that part was that Universal is so unbelievable powerful and wealthy that his attempt to be awarded damages through the courts would simply drain him of his money via lawyer fees since Universal could afford to drag it out forever and never suffer a significant financial loss over it. And they would rather do that than have the case go into court and be embarrassed for being called out then being forced to pay an artist damages. That is what I belive Omar's lawyer was warning him against.

 

Seems to me that Omar retained vinyl rights but Universal broke their contract by licensing their work out to unsanctioned vinyl pressings and Universal knew they were doing something illegal but they simply didn't care because they're so big, they're not scared of repercussions. 

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23 minutes ago, mcpherson123 said:

Ok. I've just re-read that part. I don't think that that is sufficient evidence to contradict the claim that they were granted all vinyl rights from the first contract that they initially signed back in the early 2000's. 

 

My takeaway from that part was that Universal is so unbelievable powerful and wealthy that his attempt to be awarded damages through the courts would simply drain him of his money via lawyer fees since Universal could afford to drag it out forever and never suffer a significant financial loss over it. And they would rather do that than have the case go into court and be embarrassed for being called out then being forced to pay an artist damages. That is what I belive Omar's lawyer was warning him against.

 

Seems to me that Omar retained vinyl rights but Universal broke their contract by licensing their work out to unsanctioned vinyl pressings and Universal knew they were doing something illegal but they simply didn't care because they're so big, they're not scared of repercussions. 

Then nobody would sue Walmart. Happens all the time though and when Walmart are wrong they pay out a settlement. What you described sounds like a movie.

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18 minutes ago, Your Ex-Wife said:

Then nobody would sue Walmart. Happens all the time though and when Walmart are wrong they pay out a settlement. What you described sounds like a movie.

Fair but I think there is a significantly different dynamic between customers suing Walmart versus artists suing their labels. 

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1 hour ago, Your Ex-Wife said:

I just don't believe anything Omar says tbh haha

I think its fair to say the contract certainly can't have been as clear as Omar believes regarding the rights to the vinyl releases, must have been some grey area around it at the very least otherwise even the simplest lawyer could win that case no matter what Universal tried to say

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6 hours ago, Fowty Dollaz said:

Honestly, as much as I hate to say it...umm...aloud: the whole thing is a fly by night cash grab. They're gonna use all the old plates, a couple new ones, make a book and box. The TMV will bank over half a million and do whatever they were gonna do anyway. But, here I am buying at first chance. 

The interview they did says they've been remastered so hopefully that's the case. 

"These 180gram vinyl editions – pressed from vinyl lacquers freshly remastered by Clouds Hill’s in-house engineer Chris von Rautenkranz– represent the best way to hear this music as the artists intended."

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9 hours ago, Fowty Dollaz said:

Honestly, as much as I hate to say it...umm...aloud: the whole thing is a fly by night cash grab. They're gonna use all the old plates, a couple new ones, make a book and box. The TMV will bank over half a million and do whatever they were gonna do anyway. But, here I am buying at first chance. 

Don’t forget the two pins. 

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Here's my take on the legal thing.

 

The way I read the interview the band had the vinyl rights and Universal breached their contract with each pressing. Omar was guided by his attorney not to pursue damages because of costs. 

 

Part of me has a hard time believing Universal over and over again knowingly and purposely breached the agreement and released the albums. On the other hand, Universal could have said fuck 'em and pressed the records. The band is nothing compared to some of the massive artists under the Universal umbrella. 

 

So if I'm their lawyer I need to do a cost/benefit analysis of whether or not its worth it to sue them. First, you're going after a giant with unlimited resources and tons of in house counsel, who in turn will drown you in motions and bullshit. However, if the contract very clearly reads no vinyl rights, lawsuit itself is pretty simple and if you can navigate universal's bullshit proving the breach is pretty easy. 

 

It does seem, however, that both sides have radically different views of the contract, which would be a contract interpretation and formation dispute, and they would need to provide evidence to prove the other side's knowledge of what they were agreeing to (emails, letters - non hearsay, not easy). Assuming they prove Universal absolutely knew they couldn't press the vinyl and did it on purpose, the question really is then damages. What will the band be paid if they win? How much did universal profit from illegally selling those records? Big picture, really not that much when you consider the low quantities of pressings and what the label took home, not grossed. Then let's say they are in a state where you get triple damages as punishment, you've still got to pay all your lawyer fees, which most likely will be 1/3rd of your recovery. This could be a multi year extravaganza, extremely draining mentally and seriously distract Omar from creating and moving forward, all for a few hundred grand, which then gets divided among whoever in the band has royalty rights. 

 

In terms of the Walmart lawsuit point - each lawsuit needs to be analyzed on it's own set of facts and what the damages are. If someone slipped, fell and broke their leg, it's pretty simple. Walmart also has insurance for all of this shit, so if the person has a video/walmart cameras of them slipping on something Walmart should have cleaned up, they are most likely getting paid pretty easily based on hospital bills, limited ability, not being able to work, etc. 

 

 

Edited by heyjoespin
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I think band bias is making some of you kinda loopy. A contract is literally a legal agreement. If it's broken you can't just say I'm a big company and never deal with it. If it's a gray area, then you signed a shit contract and that's why you won't win. Omar isn't gonna just call himself dumb, he's far too big-brained for that. It will always be the corporation bad guys. Or maybe Cedric read the agreement and we all know he's  illiterate lol

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Yeah I don’t believe the contract is that clear cut. There must’ve been some gray area or loophole that universal took advantage of. Or else they wouldn’t just outright do what they did. 
but who knows. It was pretty fucked up though as the band didn’t get any money from it. Which is probably why they’re still so mad about it. 

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Memes aside, what are your guys' honest guesses on what the announcement could be?

I predict either a bump or increase in boxsets, to make them more widely available – they never stated the 5,000 was a one-time run – or they announce that "due to overwhelming popularity", they're going to release each album individually.  As if that wasn't a part of the plan all along.

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6 minutes ago, Derek™ said:

Memes aside, what are your guys' honest guesses on what the announcement could be?

I predict either a bump or increase in boxsets, to make them more widely available – they never stated the 5,000 was a one-time run – or they announce that "due to overwhelming popularity", they're going to release each album individually.  As if that wasn't a part of the plan all along.

I'm hoping it's the first one but it's gotta be one of 'em.

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