Selling records and the new tax law

[Derek™]

What if I'm over $2k on a good year?

[Derek™]

So I'm setting up a spreadsheet to track purchases and sales way more meticulously than I have been.  Quick question.

We know the profit of the sale is taxed and must be reported; when determining that exact amount, are you using the Discogs Total [minus] what you paid for the album?  Or the Paypal Total [minus] what you paid for the album?  Because if you sell something for $50, you sure aren't going to see a full $50 in your account after Paypal fees, Discogs fees, etc.  So in my opinion, I am ultimately not selling that record for $50 at the and the day.  If I paid $31 PPD for a record in 2019 and I only get $39.50 in my Paypal account after selling it, am I reporting $8.50 as profit or $19 as profit?

[ntslash]

39 minutes ago, Derek™ said:

So I'm setting up a spreadsheet to track purchases and sales way more meticulously than I have been.  Quick question.

We know the profit of the sale is taxed and must be reported; when determining that exact amount, are you using the Discogs Total [minus] what you paid for the album?  Or the Paypal Total [minus] what you paid for the album?  Because if you sell something for $50, you sure aren't going to see a full $50 in your account after Paypal fees, Discogs fees, etc.  So in my opinion, I am ultimately not selling that record for $50 at the and the day.  If I paid $31 PPD for a record in 2019 and I only get $39.50 in my Paypal account after selling it, am I reporting $8.50 as profit or $19 as profit?

$50 sale price = $50 in revenue

 

$31 original purchase price + $10.50 seller fees + $5 shipping costs + $2 packaging + $4.50 mileage write-off for trip to post office = $53 expense

 

Looks like a $3 loss to me! 

[apirk]

Does anyone have a template they use that they can share that deducts all the expenses in an Excell spreadsheet, I suck at Excell.

[MrScorpio]

2 hours ago, apirk said:

Does anyone have a template they use that they can share that deducts all the expenses in an Excell spreadsheet, I suck at Excell.

GoDaddyBookkeeping worked great for me. You import all of your PP or Bank transactions and can itemize everything there. You might have to keep a seperate total of prices that you paid for items that were purchased over a year ago.  Only need to subscribe for a month ($9.99) long enough to itemize your taxes, then cancel the subscription.

Edited February 13, 2022 by MrScorpio

[Shelby]

Just make a new email address and connect your PayPal to some dead celebrity it isn't that hard to not pay taxes. Can't believe I have to say this.

[stl_ben]

1 hour ago, Why not Shelby said:

Just make a new email address and connect your PayPal to some dead celebrity it isn't that hard to not pay taxes. Can't believe I have to say this.

I'm guessing you haven't tried making a new ebay or paypal account in awhile.  Its a lot more steps and they very much verify your personal info.

[Shelby]

28 minutes ago, stl_ben said:

I'm guessing you haven't tried making a new ebay or paypal account in awhile.  Its a lot more steps and they very much verify your personal info.

I was joking. Although I do remember them asking for as little as just my email back in the day.

[stl_ben]

9 hours ago, Why not Shelby said:

I was joking. Although I do remember them asking for as little as just my email back in the day.

It all has to be tied to a physical bank account these days, at least for 2 years.  

[LIGMA_BALLZ]

I’m gonna go back to old fashioned mail order, cash only through the mail, you’ll get your record in 4-6 weeks

[dreamover]

5 hours ago, stl_ben said:

It all has to be tied to a physical bank account these days, at least for 2 years.  

not to mention, probably because i'm Illinois, it made me confirm my social security account to keep receiving payments at some point last year.  so that's probably coming soon to everyone else in the US. 

[stl_ben]

25 minutes ago, dreamover said:

not to mention, probably because i'm Illinois, it made me confirm my social security account to keep receiving payments at some point last year.  so that's probably coming soon to everyone else in the US. 

Yeah I've had to provide my Social and other business information for both my Paypal and eBay accounts.

[Tommy]

5 hours ago, crossedoutname said:

I’m gonna go back to old fashioned mail order, cash only through the mail, you’ll get your record in 4-6 weeks

holy shit, this brought me back to my year 2000 eBay days. I vividly remember sending MO through the mail 

[dreamover]

it looks like i sold about $3200 worth of records on discogs in 2021. After I subtract the sales tax, discogs fees, paypal fees, shipping fees, and costs of goods, i made maybe $1200 profit. Since I'm not a business and hobby costs can no longer be deducted, my tax liability on the $3200 is about $1400. So I would've saved money throwing those $3200 worth of records in the trash. 

Fuck this "American Rescue Package" it only fucks the little guy. 

[chiefwahoo]

But you aren't reporting it this year, right? Are you just pointing out what it would be like if it happened in 2022? I am still shocked that they reduced the dollar threshold from $20,000 to $600 and also did away with the threshold for the number of transactions. I definitely think there is a decent chance they amend that so it isn't so punitive, especially once more and more people realize how bad it is. Yours being a perfect example.

[ZeroNowhere]

7 minutes ago, chiefwahoo said:

But you aren't reporting it this year, right? Are you just pointing out what it would be like if it happened in 2022? I am still shocked that they reduced the dollar threshold from $20,000 to $600 and also did away with the threshold for the number of transactions. I definitely think there is a decent chance they amend that so it isn't so punitive, especially once more and more people realize how bad it is. Yours being a perfect example.

Highly doubtful.  Those stimulus checks aren't going to pay for themselves.  Discogs transactions are done through PayPal, you'll pay the tax on those transactions.  I sell quite a bit on Discogs.  The amount I owe is ridiculous.  

Edited April 12, 2022 by ZeroNowhere

[stl_ben]

6 minutes ago, chiefwahoo said:

But you aren't reporting it this year, right? Are you just pointing out what it would be like if it happened in 2022? I am still shocked that they reduced the dollar threshold from $20,000 to $600 and also did away with the threshold for the number of transactions. I definitely think there is a decent chance they amend that so it isn't so punitive, especially once more and more people realize how bad it is. Yours being a perfect example.

I'm sure he is reporting it...if not they will come for you.  If you get a 1099 and its not on your tax form you will get a bill in 6-12 months (trust me I found that out about 5 years ago).  You were always suppose to be paying taxes on these sales....now they are just making sure the middle men report it so they get their cut. Zero chance they change it.  As soon as the the Supreme Court gave the green light on taxing online sales everyone is trying to get their cut.

[copelandkid]

10 minutes ago, stl_ben said:

I'm sure he is reporting it...if not they will come for you.  If you get a 1099 and its not on your tax form you will get a bill in 6-12 months (trust me I found that out about 5 years ago).  You were always suppose to be paying taxes on these sales....now they are just making sure the middle men report it so they get their cut. Zero chance they change it.  As soon as the the Supreme Court gave the green light on taxing online sales everyone is trying to get their cut.

wouldn't the 1099 only be issued for the coming tax year and beyond though? *edit* just saw the clarification, Illinois has been on that grind for a few years now

Edited April 12, 2022 by copelandkid

[dreamover]

8 minutes ago, chiefwahoo said:

But you aren't reporting it this year, right? Are you just pointing out what it would be like if it happened in 2022? I am still shocked that they reduced the dollar threshold from $20,000 to $600 and also did away with the threshold for the number of transactions. I definitely think there is a decent chance they amend that so it isn't so punitive, especially once more and more people realize how bad it is. Yours being a perfect example.

Because I live in Illinois, I received a 1099-K, so it was reported to the IRS. Although I shouldn't have to pay taxes on things that aren't taxable, the IRS is sure making it difficult to do that. I have no problem with paying taxes on the little "extra income" i made, but without filing as a sole prop, there's no way to distinguish the money on the 1099 as profit or expenses. 

And there's larger problems then that. The 1099 from paypal actually includes money that i refunded to a buyer because they wanted to cancel the order. the 1099 actually is just the total amount of money (using goods and services) that was accepted and doesn't account for money refunded. And paypal isn't correcting them because they say they're doing what was required by law, documenting the money processed in one direction. So I also gotta pay taxes on money I refunded. 

Apparently this was added to the american rescue package to make sure gig economy workers are paying their fair share so they can be classified as an employee and buy insurance from the ACA exchange. As if a door dash driver making less than 20k can afford to pay half to taxes and THEN purchase overpriced high-deductible health insurance. I don't think people realize how much this is going to screw over so many people. How democrats ever expect to win again is beyond me. It's only going to force people into finding creative ways to get out of paying taxes. 

[dreamover]

9 minutes ago, stl_ben said:

You were always suppose to be paying taxes on these sales....

Yes and no. That assumes you're making a profit. A lot of people don't make any profit selling records. After fees, shipping, state taxes, selling some records for less than they paid, etc., the 20,000 threshold is designed to assume people aren't trying to make a profit and aren't hiring tax professionals and accounts to do their books. Of course, if you do $50k in annual sales, like yourself, that is in business territory and you need to keep records and pay appropriate taxes.

The way the new threshold works, it assumes all revenue is profit and the IRS is basically saying, you're not allowed to sell anything unless you're a business. 

I'd say 98% of the people on this board sell considerably less than 20k every year and this shit is going to hurt a lot of people. Everyone will suddenly be requiring for friends & family payments only which will give way to a lot more scammers to move in and take advantage of people. 

You can argue that I should've been paying taxes on all the extra income I make off selling records (which is probably $500-1500 a year in profit). The state sales tax gets paid automatically now, which is different. 

Are you paying the taxes on the whole amount that 50k+ in revenue you're taking in, or are you deducting expenses (the cost of the records, computer, label printer, packing supplies, storage, etc). Or do you classify every record you buy as a business expense and deduct it, lowering your overall tax burden? If so, I think that's WAY MORE bullshit than not paying tax on $1000 of extra hobby income. 

[faaip de oiad]

Does Craigslist and swap meet sales count? Used to be fun selling and upgrading existing records...😿

[aopps42]

The weird thing about this is how long are people supposed to keep their receipts? I tend to sell records I haven’t listened to in a few years, and theoretically would have bought those years before that. I can guess at what I paid, but couldn’t be precise. Since this is a brand new law too, I should have had the foresight this was going to be required and saved every receipt ever?  Anything from discogs is easy, but a small % of the records I own came from discogs. 

[stl_ben]

4 hours ago, faaip de oiad said:

Does Craigslist and swap meet sales count? Used to be fun selling and upgrading existing records...😿

Do they count as in you should be reporting the sales, yes.  If people are paying you in cash is there any chance you are going to be caught not reporting it....unlikely.

[faaip de oiad]

2 hours ago, stl_ben said:

Do they count as in you should be reporting the sales, yes.  If people are paying you in cash is there any chance you are going to be caught not reporting it....unlikely.

I'm going with unlikely. I made a good chunk last year during the Christmas season selling doubles and variants of stuff I'd collected(Paid some credit cards). Then upgraded a lot of them. It's a good way of supporting my habit. Err, I mean hobby. This is a hobby that should not be taxed. Unless of course this is a supplemental income. Sometimes i just buy too much and either feel guilty about a purchase or 2 then sell it. Or I'm just not gonna listen to. A lot of times they actually appreciate quite a bit. Especially if I've been sitting on them for a few years. Anyways, this sucks that my habit, I mean hobby, is gonna cost me even more...

[chiefwahoo]

13 hours ago, aopps42 said:

The weird thing about this is how long are people supposed to keep their receipts? I tend to sell records I haven’t listened to in a few years, and theoretically would have bought those years before that. I can guess at what I paid, but couldn’t be precise. Since this is a brand new law too, I should have had the foresight this was going to be required and saved every receipt ever?  Anything from discogs is easy, but a small % of the records I own came from discogs. 

Unfortunately the answer is clear. You are not a business and should not be reporting the 1099 income as such. So no receipts necessary. Screwed like the vast majority of people.