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"The Vinyl Bubble"


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Good to see a lot of you who "get his point" didn't take the time to read my post.

It's not color vinyl, it's not the amount of vinyl that's the issue. But I guess it's cooler to just say, "Fuck this guy" than figure out his actual point.

ummmmmmmmmmmmm so what's his point then? What's the issue? If we are all wrong, please correct us.

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Good to see a lot of you who "get his point" didn't take the time to read my post.

It's not color vinyl, it's not the amount of vinyl that's the issue. But I guess it's cooler to just say, "Fuck this guy" than figure out his actual point.

Reading your post doesn't mean agreeing with it, even though I do.

The only issue I take with the thrill of the hunt argument is that it's only made by dudes who live in cities like Boston, New York, Atlanta, or LA where you have access to record stores. The kid in bum fuck Idaho is SOL in that case.

I do wish Justin had pointed out the things VC does to make Vinyl collecting easier. The dirt cheap shipping etc. That is the stuff thats going to bum kids out more than a bunch of color pressings. I mean sure you might not get the limited to 100 copy, but if that means you wont buy any of a record, you wanted a limited record and not the music. You're in it for the fad and wont stick around anyway.

Why should labels repress everything on black when they can keep music available, and maybe sell a few extra copies to the handful of people that want every color. What seems to frustrate people more is the perceived devaluation of the old shit they own. OH NO PEOPLE CAN BUY MAYBE I'LL CATCH FIRE AGAIN! MY COPY IS ONLY WORTH 80 DOLLARS NOW!

I don't see how making more copies available is going to burn out the people who love the format. It's just going to burn out collectors, and those kids aren't in it for the long haul anyway.

Also what is the harm of letting people know when records are going to go on sale? Again it only matters if you want all the colors, since the most common variants never sell out in 5 minutes. If people want a feeding frenzy fuck it let them. You'll still get to enjoy the sweet vinyl grooves on a less rare color.

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This is such a ridiculous argument. If you don't like it, don't buy it. Just as he has an option to write a column/review, he may share his opinion and we don't have to agree with it.

In my opinion, this is a GREAT community and I personally like seeing vinyl on colors in variations. I rarely ever buy more than one copy of a record, I honestly just like listening to it on this format.

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In terms of "package deals" to get the rarest variant, VC does usually steer away from that, though they did make it a four pack to get the black Johny Cash tribute.

A better example is Bridge 9 who has done the "Buy the bundle to get the limited vinyl And people who buy the bundle get priority". That's some garbage.

I agree with, however you're extrapolating things that the guy who wrote it didn't say.

I'll break down what the guy said line by line.

I mean really -- if you're into buying it for the money, sell high, quick.

I agree. If you're into records because you believe that they'll be worth boatloads of eBay cash, sell your shit ASAP.

Pressing eight colors and packaging them as a deal with a pint glass, beer stein and a bottle opener is quickly killing the joy of collecting.

Obvious hyperbole about "eight colors", but he doesn't state anything about the package being the only way to get certain variants. If you don't want a pint glass, beer stein, or bottle opener, JUST BUY THE RECORD.

I've fallen prey to it myself -- who wants a copy of [[the Falcon]] 10"? -- and can see how it's taking away the joy of actually finding rare vinyl.

This throws me a bit. There are two colors of the Falcon. One is still available. I don't see how it's taking away the "joy" of finding "rare vinyl".

The Vinyl Collective approach has commoditized and ran into the ground the concept of colored vinyl.

Demand for "rare, limited, and colored" vinyl is what commoditizes records, not simply pressing it. If no one gave a shit about it it wouldn't be worth anything. To call out Virgil is shitty since he's not even the worst offender.

If you're shopping for wall decorations it's a nice, cheap way to get some pretty colored disks -- but if you're wanting to own a piece of history (in my eye, the purpose of "rare" vinyl), you're just buying the Wal-Mart version of it.

The point of vinyl, regardless if it's rare and/or colored, is to be a medium to reproduce music. I don't know where "owning a piece of history" comes into it. When I buy a record I do so to have the music that is contained on it, not to have a historic artifact. The rarity and color of the grooves should be a distant second to the music.

Sorry Virgil, this is no offense to you and I know you love what you do, but this isn't fun anymore -- it's just tedious.

Again, I don't see the point of calling out one person/label when there are a lot of labels doing similar things while putting less time and effort into it.

To be clear, I'm very pro- the institution of vinyl and colored vinyl as a special thing. What I take issue with is taking the fun, the danger and the hunt out of finding those rare pieces of wax -- leading people to buy still-in-print 7"'s for 10 times the cost on eBay!

I guess I don't understand what he's advocating. Less records? This would only make them worth more on eBay. More records? Isn't that going to ruin "colored vinyl as a special thing"? People's ignorance and stupidity is what leads people to pay 10 times the cost of records on eBay. I don't think that Virgil is solely or even partly to blame for that.

[ps - if this rambles and doesn't make sense it's because I'm way tired]

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Good to see a lot of you who "get his point" didn't take the time to read my post.

It's not color vinyl, it's not the amount of vinyl that's the issue. But I guess it's cooler to just say, "Fuck this guy" than figure out his actual point.

I read it and tried to ask you questions on it.... :-/

If I'm reading it wrong, please clarify what the issue is. I want to know, maybe then some of us will understand a little better. At least, that's what I'm trying to drive at.

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In terms of "package deals" to get the rarest variant, VC does usually steer away from that, though they did make it a four pack to get the black Johny Cash tribute.

A better example is Bridge 9 who has done the "Buy the bundle to get the limited vinyl And people who buy the bundle get priority". That's some garbage.

I agree with, however you're extrapolating things that the guy who wrote it didn't say.

I'll break down what the guy said line by line.

I mean really -- if you're into buying it for the money, sell high, quick.

I agree. If you're into records because you believe that they'll be worth boatloads of eBay cash, sell your shit ASAP.

Pressing eight colors and packaging them as a deal with a pint glass, beer stein and a bottle opener is quickly killing the joy of collecting.

Obvious hyperbole about "eight colors", but he doesn't state anything about the package being the only way to get certain variants. If you don't want a pint glass, beer stein, or bottle opener, JUST BUY THE RECORD.

I've fallen prey to it myself -- who wants a copy of [[the Falcon]] 10"? -- and can see how it's taking away the joy of actually finding rare vinyl.

This throws me a bit. There are two colors of the Falcon. One is still available. I don't see how it's taking away the "joy" of finding "rare vinyl".

The Vinyl Collective approach has commoditized and ran into the ground the concept of colored vinyl.

Demand for "rare, limited, and colored" vinyl is what commoditizes records, not simply pressing it. If no one gave a shit about it it wouldn't be worth anything. To call out Virgil is shitty since he's not even the worst offender.

If you're shopping for wall decorations it's a nice, cheap way to get some pretty colored disks -- but if you're wanting to own a piece of history (in my eye, the purpose of "rare" vinyl), you're just buying the Wal-Mart version of it.

The point of vinyl, regardless if it's rare and/or colored, is to be a medium to reproduce music. I don't know where "owning a piece of history" comes into it. When I buy a record I do so to have the music that is contained on it, not to have a historic artifact. The rarity and color of the grooves should be a distant second to the music.

Sorry Virgil, this is no offense to you and I know you love what you do, but this isn't fun anymore -- it's just tedious.

Again, I don't see the point of calling out one person/label when there are a lot of labels doing similar things while putting less time and effort into it.

To be clear, I'm very pro- the institution of vinyl and colored vinyl as a special thing. What I take issue with is taking the fun, the danger and the hunt out of finding those rare pieces of wax -- leading people to buy still-in-print 7"'s for 10 times the cost on eBay!

I guess I don't understand what he's advocating. Less records? This would only make them worth more on eBay. More records? Isn't that going to ruin "colored vinyl as a special thing"? People's ignorance and stupidity is what leads people to pay 10 times the cost of records on eBay. I don't think that Virgil is solely or even partly to blame for that.

[ps - if this rambles and doesn't make sense it's because I'm way tired]

+1

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Good to see a lot of you who "get his point" didn't take the time to read my post.

It's not color vinyl, it's not the amount of vinyl that's the issue. But I guess it's cooler to just say, "Fuck this guy" than figure out his actual point.

I read it and tried to ask you questions on it.... :-/

If I'm reading it wrong, please clarify what the issue is. I want to know, maybe then some of us will understand a little better. At least, that's why I'm trying to drive at.

The specific time and the package deal is a two fold issue. The package deal (specifically to get the limited vinyl) is a screwed up maneuver to sell an additional $20 worth of shit no one really wants. More so than VC, the guilty parties of this are the people continually pushing bullshit boxsets at inflated prices. But yes, it's annyoing when a record has a pressing of 200 of one color and you can buy 100 individually and 100 as part of some deluxe pack with three records, a CD and a shirt (something Virgil has done, and continues to do).

This ties into the posting shit at an exact time and only having it available via one site. Now, just because I wasn't sitting on my computer at 1pm I have to either buy the $100 deluxe pack or pay three times as much on ebay.

It's an annoyance to have to sit and wait for something because you know 100 other mouthbreathers are going to be doing the same thing and if you don't it will get snatched up in 10 minutes.

You can blame demand all you want (oh, if people didn't want it, this wouldn't occur) but labels know the demand exists and have played good and damn well into it, exploiting it fully. Why do you think there's 6 colors of every Gaslight Anthem album and it took until the third or fourth press to get that number higher than 500? Because a label knew it could sell that many and continually feed the market, rather than have one or two colors that was limited in availability and one that was continuous.

Like I said, yes there is a demand. Yes, a lot of kids here are going to be buying vinyl for years to come. Yes, other parties are guilty of exploiting the same packages as VC (some far worse). However, if the exploiting continues with the same "Buy 4 records to get a screened cover", "We'll have 100 special editions up at 1pm eastern time in three weeks" and all the inane deluxe business you're going to see a lot of kids who are new to collecting bowing out and causing a huge drop in the market and probably hurting a lot of great labels.

I've said it all of 2008 and I'll say it now, "Labels are starting to relay on collectors/vinyl purchasers to float their physical releases". And what's happening is both the good and the bad as a direct result. Yes tons of stuff is getting pressed that wouldn't have and it's awesome and yes it's more readily available and that's awesome. But at the same time they're actively seeking to sell multiple copies to a small segment of music fans. This is what the large gripe is about. It's no longer, "Let's press this record on vinyl and maybe do some colors", it's "How can we sell 1,000 copies of this record to a band that has 300 fans who buy vinyl?"

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I read it and tried to ask you questions on it.... :-/

If I'm reading it wrong, please clarify what the issue is. I want to know, maybe then some of us will understand a little better. At least, that's why I'm trying to drive at.

The specific time and the package deal is a two fold issue. The package deal (specifically to get the limited vinyl) is a screwed up maneuver to sell an additional $20 worth of shit no one really wants. More so than VC, the guilty parties of this are the people continually pushing bullshit boxsets at inflated prices. But yes, it's annyoing when a record has a pressing of 200 of one color and you can buy 100 individually and 100 as part of some deluxe pack with three records, a CD and a shirt (something Virgil has done, and continues to do).

This ties into the posting shit at an exact time and only having it available via one site. Now, just because I wasn't sitting on my computer at 1pm I have to either buy the $100 deluxe pack or pay three times as much on ebay.

It's an annoyance to have to sit and wait for something because you know 100 other mouthbreathers are going to be doing the same thing and if you don't it will get snatched up in 10 minutes.

You can blame demand all you want (oh, if people didn't want it, this wouldn't occur) but labels know the demand exists and have played good and damn well into it, exploiting it fully. Why do you think there's 6 colors of every Gaslight Anthem album and it took until the third or fourth press to get that number higher than 500? Because a label knew it could sell that many and continually feed the market, rather than have one or two colors that was limited in availability and one that was continuous.

Like I said, yes there is a demand. Yes, a lot of kids here are going to be buying vinyl for years to come. Yes, other parties are guilty of exploiting the same packages as VC (some far worse). However, if the exploiting continues with the same "Buy 4 records to get a screened cover", "We'll have 100 special editions up at 1pm eastern time in three weeks" and all the inane deluxe business you're going to see a lot of kids who are new to collecting bowing out and causing a huge drop in the market and probably hurting a lot of great labels.

I've said it all of 2008 and I'll say it now, "Labels are starting to relay on collectors/vinyl purchasers to float their physical releases". And what's happening is both the good and the bad as a direct result. Yes tons of stuff is getting pressed that wouldn't have and it's awesome and yes it's more readily available and that's awesome. But at the same time they're actively seeking to sell multiple copies to a small segment of music fans. This is what the large gripe is about. It's no longer, "Let's press this record on vinyl and maybe do some colors", it's "How can we sell 1,000 copies of this record to a band that has 300 fans who buy vinyl?"

Okay - I gotta ask this and maybe I'll finally begin to understand:

If these are the problems, what are the solutions that you'd like to see? That continues to be real hazy to me as again, those two points - the inability to get certain variations easily/at retail price and labels/stores selling multiple colors and low press runs to drive up demand as well as create it out of nothing - sound like they couldn't be resolved together.

Again, I just keep getting the vibe (aka I'm not saying this is what you, Justin or anyone else are actually saying) that I'm reading pity party posts from people who didn't get a record variation they wanted and for whatever reason have been unable to obtain it without overpaying and/or feel that they deserve/are entitled to records over other buyers/collectors. I think that's why most people keep saying "I understand the points, but..." because being selfish isn't an necessarily widely held opinion.

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I find it funny that Dante's had to explain everything that Kirby said....

I just saw the piece as a bit vague and tactless. It made mention of why you hate collecting, but blame why solely blame Virgil? Sure he's an example, but to not mention that comes off as if you are pointing the finger at Virgil, VC, and Virgils Package Deal for all what's wrong with collecting. You could have addressed his issues with a bit more forethought.

When it comes down to it... If you are collecting for variants and upset that maybe certain vinyl isn't available to you when you're able to buy it or will be available at a store for later purchase.. tuff...buy the other color or wait it out like everyone else. All things have a date of release, and no matter how limited they are, they will sell out if the want is there, no matter whether a time or date is given or not. Or if they are released in a box set, package deal, etc. Eventually people sell them and you will find them or a nice price. Patience is a virtue. So why moan about it.

If collecting vinyl isn't fun anymore, why collect? Music is the 1st reason you should buy vinyl. and collecting should be a far 2nd. While yes, i collect variants as well (one band), it's not pressing that i get a certain copy in almost all cases. It doesnt deter me from collecting either in the least bit. It's still fun hunting down variants (jawbreaker) and certain pressing of vinyl, but it's not a major thing in my case and it shouldn't be in anyone else's. if a color is more important to someone than the music, then that's just silly.

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Again, I just keep getting the vibe (aka I'm not saying this is what you, Justin or anyone else are actually saying) that I'm reading pity party posts from people who didn't get a record variation they wanted and for whatever reason have been unable to obtain it without overpaying and/or feel that they deserve/are entitled to records over other buyers/collectors. I think that's why most people keep saying "I understand the points, but..." because being selfish isn't an necessarily widely held opinion.

The pity party thing isn't even remotely the point and the people who keep coming back to it are people who just want to believe this argument is about being bitter or entitled.

The point is it's going to long term impact collecting and have a negative effect on labels and vinyl as a whole. The point is when the bottom does fall out labels and bands are going to lose what has become a fairly steady revenue stream and with music being as unprofitable as it is on the small scale, that's something I'd hate to see.

The solution is simple, if you want to do a limited edition make it something special. Do a limited run on color and make a readily accessible version. Don't do represses in increasingly smaller numbers for an item that doesn't require it, making a false demand. Do what Red Scare did, Teenage Bottlerocket's Total was done in a run of 500 and is now OOP and sells for a tone on ebay. Toby took this note and made Warning Device out of 1,000. It still sells but it's not hard to find and isn't going for a shit ton on ebay.

Basically the answer is, make it about music and not about exploiting a niche market to sell another 400 copies.

As for explaining the post, like I said, it's easy to take a very short piece that was meant to give a general opinion and over analyze it, assume things or simply misinterpret. I've had conversations with Justin and it's just a general vibe we both have, so I'm hoping I'm not putting words in his mouth.

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from a small label's side of things...

without multiple variants, and the kids who support us by buying them.. we probably wouldn't have survived/been able to release so many records. and theres labels i buy multiple copies of their releases because i love their work, and want to support them.

theres very little markup on vinyl, even less so if you're selling through distributors and have to eat shipping. to anyone who's complaining.. we live in a free market economy. vinyl is a luxury. you don't have to buy one copy let alone 50. theres no gun to your head. personally theres titles i will buy every color that comes out, but for the records i buy one copy of .. i like having a choice of which color to buy. the extras like shirts, pint glasses etc are neat... if you don't like them you can easily give them away/sell them to someone else if you absolutely must have that rare color.

vinyl collective/ebay both serve their purpose. when i was 15 i had the time to go spend hours digging thru stacks at record stores to find that 7" that was eluding me, or to send a check off to that obscure distro on the other side of the world to get a record.. but now i barely have time for anything.. so being able to click three buttons and get what i want is amazingly conveinant.

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I'm going to make one last comment and bow out as it seems I'm clearly inserting more bees in bonnets than helping.

To all the people going, "why point out Virgil?" Here's my guess, and this ISN'T something I've discussed with Justin, so this is purely that, a guess. Who remembers about 4 or 5 years ago when Virgil had to go out and ask for donations to keep Suburban Home running? How about 2 years ago (if that) when he said they were going to essentially close up shop and run it on a much smaller scale out of his house? Say what you will about other labels doing the same thing but few, if any, of the ones that keep getting brought up in comparison (no Idea, Bridge nine, revelation) have ever made those statements and certainly not so recently, if they have.

Now Suburban Home experiencing their biggest year, moved into a larger warehouse and putting out as many records in a year as they did in the previous 15. Why? Vinyl and specifically Virgil's knack at selling it to the kids. Now, some of those methods are great (test press contests, cheap shipping and a great relationship with buyers), some are likely to lead to buyer burn out (packages, deluxe editions, the 4 different colors in lots of 100). And I'd imagine that's why Virgil was brought up in particular, as he has seen both sides of the label spectrum and has seemingly profited from vinyl more than any other single label.

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I collect a lot of music from labels who rarely do color. And I gotta tell you, it's kinda lame. In The Red is first to come to mind. It's pretty much all black vinyl, unless Gonerfest is coming up, then they'll do 100 on clear. That's great for 100 people going to Gonerfest, but not so much for those of us who are going to mailorder them. And since every single record after that is on black, as is every reissue, then there are thousands of the same thing out there. I think that this makes a lot of them less special, and not at all collectible.

For the passive collector, this means they should just buy the CD or download. For the full time record collector, it means you have it on vinyl, it sounds good, but it will never be worth more than what you paid for it, and you can't brag about it. Which also means you'll never run into a rare color variant at a used record store either. So the inverse also takes the fun out of it.

Hell, I'd even be happy if the limited version was just 180 gram...

There needs to be a happy medium, between collectible version(s) and listening version. Otherwise, in the age of a more convenient medium, what's the point?

I'll always buy the vinyl, but I mean, I would like to have a version that you don't have, that I had to mailorder the day it came out or get at a show.

And 10X what somethings worth on ebay is the fault of the buyer, you can't blame anyone for wanting to sell a $4 record that just came out for $80-100. Laugh at the guy who bought it.

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while on the surface it is similar to the comic book bubble of the mid nineties.. its really different.

with comic books they printed hundreds of thousands of copies (if not a million of certain titles) and people went nuts... in the case of records even huge titles like Reinventing Axl rose.. theres only say 13,000 copies in existence...whereas their fan base is a lot bigger than that world wide. So for example.. theres a really limited number of copies of Black Mambas with the mitch clem cover... and O Pioneers!!! has at least a couple thousand fans who might be interested in owning one... its a much different ratio for supply/demand.

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