vinylme Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 Under stand what he's saying, but think it's a bit unfair to pinpoint V. That being said, I would love to get a shirt and a pint glass w/ out having to buy both colors of a release. It seems retarded for someone who's such a big fan of No Idea though to shit on multicolor releases. I think there are haters everywhere. I think this guy singled out Virgil because of how successful he has become since focussing more on VC. Some of his points do make sense and I agree but he's an asshole for pinpointing Virgil when sooo many other labels do the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wannabepunktony Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 It seems like some of the point made doesn't have to do with VC, but with labels who press tons of colors, but he blamed VC because they perpetuate that idea by selling some much vinyl. But I don't see how its Virgil's fault variations sell and sell a lot. Shouldn't the blame be placed on those who are causing this demand? As for those sets he's complaining about, I fucking love them, but they aren't for everyone and since you don't have to buy a set to get a record, I don't see the need to take that jab. One of the things I've never understood is why people complain about something that they can control. I don't mean that they can control what a label does and how many pressings are made, extra shit, whatever, but the buyer controls what they buy. If you don't like a certain aspect about something, such as a release getting a ton of colors, I don't see why you can't just buy one and be done with it. If a release sells out before you can get one and you have to search the secondary market and pay over the original price, isn't that technically still your fault for not being by your computer? I mean, of course there are plenty of legit reasons why a person can't be by their computer 24/7, but I don't see how that's someone else's fault. I definitely agree with most of the points that he's trying to make, but like most of these type of posts, it ends up sounding like someone bitching because they didn't get a record they wanted and now feel the need to throw an Internet tantrum. Maybe I don't get so worked up over missing something I really want because I know, with a little patience, I can dig just about anything up for a decent price or trade on message boards and eBay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aarondanger Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 killer post.i think 70% of people who post here are genuine about record collecting. You can tell by the list of records they have and how often they sell off the records they own. Vinylcollective has made collecting EASY. some records were not meant for you to own (test pressings,record release versions) and i dont think some people understand. After some time all this hype behind rare vinyl will die, and people who only give a shit about that will be left holding the bag. I'm not sure I understand. Are people who sell off some records less genuine about collecting? Because I just sold off a bunch of stuff that was very near and dear to me in order to afford records that are more important to me....does that make me less genuine of a collector? I have been buying vinyl since about 1990 and sometimes it's necessary to sell things to a) make room for more records, get rid of records you don't listen to or c) to afford high-dollar rarities. Do i think your less of a collector for selling records? no. I sell rare records all the time for just about every reason you listed. My problem is with "kids" who buy records and look at them as a "hey i could sell this on ebay" rather then a record. i hate complaining about something that wont go away. having records and buying vinyl is fun, selling your records sucks. some people dont feel that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thischarmingham Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 I think Justin made a lot of good points and I don't think it's "mean" or wrong to point to VC as a huge source of what he's talking about. Are their other guilty parties? Absolutly. But just because others are doing it doesn't absolve VC nor does it mean you can't point them out. They didn't invent market flooding or "special packages" but they do excel at it and it's a large portion of their business as a whole. Your views on this are up to you but I do worry about labels who do these sorts of things eventually wearing out the welcome for everyone else. I saw this exact same thing happen with comic books and sports cards in the early 90's. Companies got greedy and out of control with the special editions and variants and eventually people got sick of it and the bottom fell out of the market. I'm not advocating people no longer doing colored vinyl or offering a few cool things to folks who pre-order but I think everyone needs to cool it a bit. In the interest of full disclosure and to head a few of you off at the pass....yes I pressed the Cute Lepers on a retarded amount of colors. It's something the band wanted but all future presses will be black. It's also the only record I've intentionally done so many colors on. I typically stick with 100 to 300 on colored vinyl for mail orders with exceptions here and there. I feel like that's reasonable and keeping in the original spirit of doing colored versions. Giving the few folks in on the ground floor something special. Above and beyond that you get dangerously close to crass comercialism. I want to be clear that I don't begrudge anyone making a living doing a label/mail order. I do it myself and I know how hard it is. I just worry that things might be getting a little out of control and it could damage us all in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dante3000 Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 You guys sure do get your panties in a bunch, eh? Maybe it's because I've spoken with Justin about it but it seems a lot of you who claim to "get his point" are "missing his point". Again, this has a lot to do with the fact that it's a short piece, static and open to interpretation (as I said). The issue he mentions isn't colored vinyl or vinyl collective in particular. It's the "we're going to have 200 copies on limited green available on January 30th at 1pm and a special 1/100 blue edition available to folks who buy both copies of the vinyl, the CD and a pocket knife!". It's making people buy extra stuff to get a limited record, or making such distinct limited pressings available at a specific time weeks in advance so that it chums the feeding freenzy, just to get the "limited color". No Idea has typically just sold the records and then posted numbers some odd weeks later. More recently they announce the colors at the time of sale but they still tend to just go "this record's up for sale now". Fat Wreck puts the vinyl up more random now and doesn't announce colors till later as well. It's this very narrow and limited understand of recent vinyl collectors that being a "good" collector means being at your computer at the right time to buy the best album. And if that doesn't work, huck up 10 times the cost on ebay next week. No digging through crates, not trying to find it at stores, no trying to catch it at the bands merch table. If you weren't on your desktop at 1pm EST, you're shit out of luck. That isn't fun, it's not interesting it's tedious. I'm sure a lot of people here know the feeling. I don't think Justin is looking for the end of vinyl sales, or vinyl collective. I think he imagines kids will get tired of staying glued to their monitor waiting for a bundle with a weedwhacker, teaspoon and a 1/15 screened cover. Vinyl will stick around and I feel a lot of kids here will stick with it for a long time but a lot of the newer kids will fall off, unnecessarily mind you, because they've been viewing collecting as this internet battle and that get's old quick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thischarmingham Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 Keep talking Dante. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcm1610 Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 Maybe that weedwhacker bundle is hinting that kids have some chores they should be doing rather than shopping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainmorgan Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 I'm sure the bubble will burst at some point and everything will cool down, and it will be for the best because sitting at your computer refreshing the screen every two seconds to get something that's going to sell out in 20 seconds is pretty lame. But I just want to say that a weedwhacker/teaspoon/screened cover package sounds awesome, and that I would fully support package deals that contained kitchen gadgets and/or garden tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suburbanargyle Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 Has anyone read the article in the most recent Razorcake (with the Sass Dragons on the cover) about this topic? It's pretty interesting, it's written by Joe Steinhardt of Don Giovanni Records. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattisr1984 Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 i didnt read much more of this, but forced upselling is a bunch of bullshit (ie. have to buy a bunch of other shit nobody cares about to get the most limited variation). optional? okay by me since the only people who would buy that are the people that actually want that crap. variant collecting is a little out of control, but if you pick one band you really love i can see it. buying 8 copies of every record you like is pretty stupid (not to mention expensive). besides, you can only listen to one copy of a record at a time. i do think though the tons and tons and tons of color variations are what IS going to make the "vinyl bubble" burst. dont oversaturate your own market! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxmartinxx Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 I've always found the whole "Get a bundle with a print, t-shirt, shot glass, and 4 different versions of the same record" to be kinda silly. But I don't care about posters, I don't wear band shirts, I don't drink, and I don't care about collecting variants. If I were I might have a different opinion on it. That being said, I don't believe you've ever HAD to buy the "package deal" to get a certain variant. Maybe I'm wrong, but I've never seen that. That's one thing that they subjectively do "wrong", however, let's talk about all the stuff they do right. Raffling off a free test press of the people who pre-order is fucking fantastic! No other decent sized label that I know of does this. Their shipping price is great. Any cheaper and it would be free. Their prices are consistently good and often have sales. Generally they're consistently cheaper than other online distros. Last but not least, their service is top notch. Things are always shipped fast and considerately. Does the "package deal" seem a bit exploitative of the current "variant collector mentality" trend. Yeah, I suppose. But in 2009 a music oriented business needs to pull out all the stops to keep itself going. It's hard to compete with free, and it seems the VC is doing a pretty good job at it. Give the people what they want, right? Do I think that the VC is single-handedly ruining record collecting as we know it? No. Are they part of the problem. Perhaps. Do I think the gravy train is going to continue in perpetuity? Extremely unlikely. However, those things the VC is doing right is positioning themselves for good customer retention in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xjustinxschwierx Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 I've always found the whole "Get a bundle with a print, t-shirt, shot glass, and 4 different versions of the same record" to be kinda silly. But I don't care about posters, I don't wear band shirts, I don't drink, and I don't care about collecting variants. If I were I might have a different opinion on it. That being said, I don't believe you've ever HAD to buy the "package deal" to get a certain variant. Maybe I'm wrong, but I've never seen that. That's one thing that they subjectively do "wrong", however, let's talk about all the stuff they do right. Raffling off a free test press of the people who pre-order is fucking fantastic! No other decent sized label that I know of does this. Their shipping price is great. Any cheaper and it would be free. Their prices are consistently good and often have sales. Generally they're consistently cheaper than other online distros. Last but not least, their service is top notch. Things are always shipped fast and considerately. Does the "package deal" seem a bit exploitative of the current "variant collector mentality" trend. Yeah, I suppose. But in 2009 a music oriented business needs to pull out all the stops to keep itself going. It's hard to compete with free, and it seems the VC is doing a pretty good job at it. Give the people what they want, right? Do I think that the VC is single-handedly ruining record collecting as we know it? No. Are they part of the problem. Perhaps. Do I think the gravy train is going to continue in perpetuity? Extremely unlikely. However, those things the VC is doing right is positioning themselves for good customer retention in the future. i agree with this 99%, I wear band t shirts, so i'm ranking that as 1%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlejonnyhormone Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 This is why I get one copy of each record I buy, and I listen to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dante3000 Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 I've always found the whole "Get a bundle with a print, t-shirt, shot glass, and 4 different versions of the same record" to be kinda silly. But I don't care about posters, I don't wear band shirts, I don't drink, and I don't care about collecting variants. If I were I might have a different opinion on it. That being said, I don't believe you've ever HAD to buy the "package deal" to get a certain variant. Maybe I'm wrong, but I've never seen that. That's one thing that they subjectively do "wrong", however, let's talk about all the stuff they do right. Raffling off a free test press of the people who pre-order is fucking fantastic! No other decent sized label that I know of does this. Their shipping price is great. Any cheaper and it would be free. Their prices are consistently good and often have sales. Generally they're consistently cheaper than other online distros. Last but not least, their service is top notch. Things are always shipped fast and considerately. Does the "package deal" seem a bit exploitative of the current "variant collector mentality" trend. Yeah, I suppose. But in 2009 a music oriented business needs to pull out all the stops to keep itself going. It's hard to compete with free, and it seems the VC is doing a pretty good job at it. Give the people what they want, right? Do I think that the VC is single-handedly ruining record collecting as we know it? No. Are they part of the problem. Perhaps. Do I think the gravy train is going to continue in perpetuity? Extremely unlikely. However, those things the VC is doing right is positioning themselves for good customer retention in the future. In terms of "package deals" to get the rarest variant, VC does usually steer away from that, though they did make it a four pack to get the black Johny Cash tribute. A better example is Bridge 9 who has done the "Buy the bundle to get the limited vinyl And people who buy the bundle get priority". That's some garbage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forgeagain Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 I saw nothing wrong with this guy posting his opinion, and who cares that he used VC as an example? VC is like the drug dealer and the labels that do this shit are the suppliers. The people who buy it are the addicts. Some labels like to deal directly to the customer, some would rather set it up through someone else and just collect the checks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 I agree with the sentiment that collecting (and pressing) a ton of variants is really unnecessary. But I don't agree that vinyl collecting should be "the thrill of the hunt". I don't want to hunt for music I like. I just want to listen to it, and therefore I want to purchase it as easily as possible. And I just want one copy on any color that looks good and sounds good. In a perfect world everything would be in print and available at Vinyl Collective. I already have a job and a bunch of other responsibilities and stresses. Getting the music I like shouldn't be one of those chores. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyleevanswastaken Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 This is why I get one copy of each record I buy, and I listen to it. I get 2 for some 7"s, because some day I want to own a jukebox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew13 Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 i do variants on bands i really love. but this last year, as the year went on it started to get excessive i thought. i gave up on doing BTMI and the Copyrights for that reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wannabepunktony Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 I agree with the sentiment that collecting (and pressing) a ton of variants is really unnecessary. But I don't agree that vinyl collecting should be "the thrill of the hunt". I don't want to hunt for music I like. I just want to listen to it, and therefore I want to purchase it as easily as possible. And I just want one copy on any color that looks good and sounds good. In a perfect world everything would be in print and available at Vinyl Collective. I already have a job and a bunch of other responsibilities and stresses. Getting the music I like shouldn't be one of those chores. For sure - I'm all up on that train. And the jukebox idea - god damn brilliant! I got a question for you Dante, and anyone else who has an opinion on it: why does it matter if a limited edition is available at a specific time or in a special package? I guess that's what I really don't understand about Justin's piece (and not even just his piece but that opinion set if you will) being made is the "why" portion. I'm getting two different vibes from reading it and what you've added yourself Dante - one that doesn't like limited variants and a million colors and one that doesn't like not being able to get all the colors they want and having to pay more to get one second-hand (though, like I said before, a little patience can remedy that issue very, very easily not to mention trading a rare record for a rare record when both parties paid retail prices seems like another route to fix that). Its confusing because those two views don't seem to go together. But if something is limited, someone is going to lose out, regardless of the distribution method, right? Should I be pissed if a band I like has a release show only version of a record in a city far away from me? I can't remember the last time a band I liked had a record release show in Seattle, so all those cool tour edition records / record release editions never make it to me at "retail" price. I'd say that's far more unfair than a release selling out on the Internet because in that cause, if you aren't there, you can't get it without overpaying for it - period. Shouldn't that be a bigger crime against vinyl collectors? I'm just trying to figure this one out. ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinylme Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 I dont think ive seen a sale where virgil puts the rarest variant of the record only available with the pint glass package. ive always seen them as an option and you also have the option to buy the record individually. some of the releases i have gotten w/ the packages and some i got individual. but i see pros and cons of repressing records after short times and low runs. pro: everyone gets a copy of the album(some buy all the presses, thats their choice) cons: everyone gets a copy so they are easier to find and take the fun out of hunting them down. also if a kid is on ebay and finds a copy of a still in print record and decides to put 10-50-80 etc etc down thats his choice if he really collected he would have the sense to research the album and see that it was still available. i havent sold anything on ebay yet but i have bought quite a few records from there and everytime im looking for something or i see something i research and try to find out its availability to judge what im willing to pay. just like when i go to record stores i have a list of stuff that i always want and if its there and priced in my range i will pick it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinylme Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 It seems like some of the point made doesn't have to do with VC, but with labels who press tons of colors, but he blamed VC because they perpetuate that idea by selling some much vinyl. But I don't see how its Virgil's fault variations sell and sell a lot. Shouldn't the blame be placed on those who are causing this demand? As for those sets he's complaining about, I fucking love them, but they aren't for everyone and since you don't have to buy a set to get a record, I don't see the need to take that jab.One of the things I've never understood is why people complain about something that they can control. I don't mean that they can control what a label does and how many pressings are made, extra shit, whatever, but the buyer controls what they buy. If you don't like a certain aspect about something, such as a release getting a ton of colors, I don't see why you can't just buy one and be done with it. If a release sells out before you can get one and you have to search the secondary market and pay over the original price, isn't that technically still your fault for not being by your computer? I mean, of course there are plenty of legit reasons why a person can't be by their computer 24/7, but I don't see how that's someone else's fault. I definitely agree with most of the points that he's trying to make, but like most of these type of posts, it ends up sounding like someone bitching because they didn't get a record they wanted and now feel the need to throw an Internet tantrum. Maybe I don't get so worked up over missing something I really want because I know, with a little patience, I can dig just about anything up for a decent price or trade on message boards and eBay. right on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melikecheese Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 I took this as not the pint glasses and other items but as hey we are releaseing an LP, its limited to 1000 on 2 colors. sold out. jsut kidding, we pressed another 100, this time on these colors. hurry it'll sell out! sold out. just kidding! we pressed 2000 more, with 8 colors. hurry they will sell out!!! sold out. all in a span of 3 months. No one is obligated to buy anything they dont want. If you want to collect all the variants then thats up to you. I like keeping records in print so I can pick it up if I just want a copy to listen to and then if you want the rare variant or first press or whatever then you are free to hunt that down. I think how Fat does it is perfect. Make X amount of records on 1 color as somewhat of a first press then keep pressing it on black from then on. Yeah I totally agree, no one is making anyone buy anything. This kind of action still leaves a bit or a sour taste in some peoples mouth. I mean, I am not going to buy a hummer, but I still don't like them. I also agree on the fat comment, I think thats the best way to handle things. 1 color, then black. Or even 1 color then a few years later maybe press another color when you press more black, just not ever 2 months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruins4ever Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 The thrill of the hunt argument is bullshit. Sure, it can be cool to go to a record store and find that rare /47 blue/green split copy of some obscure band from the early 90's, but many of us (me included) live in no near proximity to an actual record store. If I want to do some shopping in a store, I have to drop a solid $25 on gas to drive the 100kms to Toronto, pay for parking downtown, and then find the record. Sure, I could potentially do that.... or I can wake up after a night of drinking, without showering or shaving, hop online and pre order a new record. It's about ease of use for me. The thrill of the hunt is a bullshit argument, especially for those of us who live in the middle of butt-fuck nowhere. And for variant collectors, you guys seem to be responsible for the continuous presses of records. A pressing will sell out, and they'll repress it on 5 different colors knowing some people will buy all of them. They're running a business, and while punk ethos and others may not agree with it, it's a simple fact. Labels are providing a product for consumption by us customers. If we choose to buy one or 50 copies of a SINGLE record, we have that choice, but of course I'm not saying anything that you guys don't already know. I also can't think of a time where anyone has made you buy a package deal to get the rarest variant of a colour, but that's just me. The beer coozie/pint glass thing is fine. If Virgil wants to run a pressing of 100 pint glasses to throw in to help move the last remaining 100 copies of a record, he's fully within his rights to do so. If you've got a complaint about it, don't buy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dante3000 Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 Good to see a lot of you who "get his point" didn't take the time to read my post. It's not color vinyl, it's not the amount of vinyl that's the issue. But I guess it's cooler to just say, "Fuck this guy" than figure out his actual point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steventangent Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 records are fun to listen to i like music Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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