kirbypuckett Posted January 2, 2009 Author Share Posted January 2, 2009 For the passive collector, this means they should just buy the CD or download. For the full time record collector, it means you have it on vinyl, it sounds good, but it will never be worth more than what you paid for it, and you can't brag about it. This is a very backwards statement. What you're saying is that people only collect / listen to vinyl in order to brag about them or flip them for more money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xjustinxschwierx Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 So for example.. theres a really limited number of copies of Black Mambas with the mitch clem cover... and O Pioneers!!! has at least a couple thousand fans who might be interested in owning one... its a much different ratio for supply/demand. FYI: http://stores.channeladvisor.com/vinylhome/Items/UCR015-TP c'mon, it's 100% for charity too!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgoodcore Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Totally agree with mr. martin and flood. Labels have to do what they need to survive at the moment. Its garbage to complain about this. Talk with your wallet. If you really are just all about the music, who cares if you've got the 1/100 on blue or whatever. It used to be, sans-Internet, you would have no clue the colors or variations of a record. Its such a fruitless, childish thing to bitch about. And its even worse when you bitch about it but don't present a single solution to the so-called problem. People buy records so labels make records. Period. End of story. No argument to be made. If people get offended by the practices than they should stop buying. That'll make the labels, who need to make money, change their ways. If you think for a second I personally don't regret not putting the End of the Ring Wars on at least two colors you're fucking crazy. If people want multiple of the same thing I'm more than happy to give it to them. It has to be the stance currently and anyone who thinks otherwise lives in a fantasy land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedavidescapeplan Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 FYI: http://stores.channeladvisor.com/vinylhome/Items/UCR015-TP c'mon, it's 100% for charity too!!! If that's still available after my next paycheck comes in I'll probably pick it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xjustinxschwierx Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 please do. I'm sending J & Janet a check as soon as I get paid for the item that sold during the xmas sale... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedavidescapeplan Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 If that's still available after my next paycheck comes in I'll probably pick it up. please do. I'm sending J & Janet a check as soon as I get paid for the item that sold during the xmas sale... I most likely will. I missed my opportunity to get that when it was first released and I feel the price is more than fair considering it's something I want and it really is going to a great cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
numanoid Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 For the passive collector, this means they should just buy the CD or download. For the full time record collector, it means you have it on vinyl, it sounds good, but it will never be worth more than what you paid for it, and you can't brag about it. This is a very backwards statement. What you're saying is that people only collect / listen to vinyl in order to brag about them or flip them for more money. What you're saying is that people only collect / listen to vinyl in order to brag about them or flip them for more money. This is EXACTLY what I mean. Why else would you buy every color of Reinventing Axl Rose? Or why didn't people buy Shape of Punk to Come when it was readily available at Hot Topic before this recent reissue? Because it was on BLACK! When I sold my copy of Shape for nearly $300 on ebay, it was because I knew there was going to be a reissue, and it would be identical to the one I was selling. I was right. And when I did sell it, I had two friends at work lamenting about how they never bought one because "they were all on black". And I did state that this is the passive collector, and generally speaking, I don't think these people will be around in five years. And yes, I spend a lot of money on records, and I do like to be able to brag about them, and I would like to know that my investment will be worth at least what I put into it. And I would say most any collector of any collectible will agree. Though what I brag about would be laughable to most (my Depeche Mode collection comes to mind). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hickey Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 This is EXACTLY what I mean. Why else would you buy every color of Reinventing Axl Rose? Or why didn't people buy Shape of Punk to Come when it was readily available at Hot Topic before this recent reissue? Because it was on BLACK! When I sold my copy of Shape for nearly $300 on ebay, it was because I knew there was going to be a reissue, and it would be identical to the one I was selling. I was right. And when I did sell it, I had two friends at work lamenting about how they never bought one because "they were all on black". And I did state that this is the passive collector, and generally speaking, I don't think these people will be around in five years. And yes, I spend a lot of money on records, and I do like to be able to brag about them, and I would like to know that my investment will be worth at least what I put into it. And I would say most any collector of any collectible will agree. Though what I brag about would be laughable to most (my Depeche Mode collection comes to mind). Aren't you getting back what you put into it every time you listen to the record. You pay money for music, you listen to music...solid investment if you ask me. Vinyl should not be seen as an investment, unless you're an auction house or Beatles dealer. It should be a way to enjoy music, plain and simple. I collect variants and such for only one band, because that band is my favorite. That is the only collection I brag about. If I happen to get a record on a more limited press, that's an awesome surprise/reward. If I don't, oh well, I still got the same tunes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dante3000 Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 This is a very backwards statement. What you're saying is that people only collect / listen to vinyl in order to brag about them or flip them for more money. This is EXACTLY what I mean. Why else would you buy every color of Reinventing Axl Rose? Or why didn't people buy Shape of Punk to Come when it was readily available at Hot Topic before this recent reissue? Because it was on BLACK! When I sold my copy of Shape for nearly $300 on ebay, it was because I knew there was going to be a reissue, and it would be identical to the one I was selling. I was right. And when I did sell it, I had two friends at work lamenting about how they never bought one because "they were all on black". And I did state that this is the passive collector, and generally speaking, I don't think these people will be around in five years. And yes, I spend a lot of money on records, and I do like to be able to brag about them, and I would like to know that my investment will be worth at least what I put into it. And I would say most any collector of any collectible will agree. Though what I brag about would be laughable to most (my Depeche Mode collection comes to mind). I think it's really odd to think of music as an investment. I (personally) buy multiples of bands I like because I know it's going to help the band and I personally enjoy it as a tribute to a band I like. I also like music. I don't know, that's just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinylme Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 The specific time and the package deal is a two fold issue. The package deal (specifically to get the limited vinyl) is a screwed up maneuver to sell an additional $20 worth of shit no one really wants. More so than VC, the guilty parties of this are the people continually pushing bullshit boxsets at inflated prices. But yes, it's annyoing when a record has a pressing of 200 of one color and you can buy 100 individually and 100 as part of some deluxe pack with three records, a CD and a shirt (something Virgil has done, and continues to do). This ties into the posting shit at an exact time and only having it available via one site. Now, just because I wasn't sitting on my computer at 1pm I have to either buy the $100 deluxe pack or pay three times as much on ebay. It's an annoyance to have to sit and wait for something because you know 100 other mouthbreathers are going to be doing the same thing and if you don't it will get snatched up in 10 minutes. You can blame demand all you want (oh, if people didn't want it, this wouldn't occur) but labels know the demand exists and have played good and damn well into it, exploiting it fully. Why do you think there's 6 colors of every Gaslight Anthem album and it took until the third or fourth press to get that number higher than 500? Because a label knew it could sell that many and continually feed the market, rather than have one or two colors that was limited in availability and one that was continuous. Like I said, yes there is a demand. Yes, a lot of kids here are going to be buying vinyl for years to come. Yes, other parties are guilty of exploiting the same packages as VC (some far worse). However, if the exploiting continues with the same "Buy 4 records to get a screened cover", "We'll have 100 special editions up at 1pm eastern time in three weeks" and all the inane deluxe business you're going to see a lot of kids who are new to collecting bowing out and causing a huge drop in the market and probably hurting a lot of great labels. I've said it all of 2008 and I'll say it now, "Labels are starting to relay on collectors/vinyl purchasers to float their physical releases". And what's happening is both the good and the bad as a direct result. Yes tons of stuff is getting pressed that wouldn't have and it's awesome and yes it's more readily available and that's awesome. But at the same time they're actively seeking to sell multiple copies to a small segment of music fans. This is what the large gripe is about. It's no longer, "Let's press this record on vinyl and maybe do some colors", it's "How can we sell 1,000 copies of this record to a band that has 300 fans who buy vinyl?" Okay - I gotta ask this and maybe I'll finally begin to understand: If these are the problems, what are the solutions that you'd like to see? That continues to be real hazy to me as again, those two points - the inability to get certain variations easily/at retail price and labels/stores selling multiple colors and low press runs to drive up demand as well as create it out of nothing - sound like they couldn't be resolved together. Again, I just keep getting the vibe (aka I'm not saying this is what you, Justin or anyone else are actually saying) that I'm reading pity party posts from people who didn't get a record variation they wanted and for whatever reason have been unable to obtain it without overpaying and/or feel that they deserve/are entitled to records over other buyers/collectors. I think that's why most people keep saying "I understand the points, but..." because being selfish isn't an necessarily widely held opinion. but tony that wouldnt be it. because that is the thrill of the hunt!! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxmartinxx Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 im just saying, i brought this up months ago, by comparing this to the comic book industry. Everyone said no way. I've said this multiple times and people wanted to lynch me! I don't disagree that the vinyl bubble is going to burst, but I don't think that the labels control it. They could stop doing packages, but I'm sure the same people would still buy all of them separately. It's the speculator mentality and people who want 5 copies of the same record. Sooner or later both types of people will move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
numanoid Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 The music isn't the investment. The vinyl it comes on is. This same argument can be applied to CDs and downloads. Why isn't there a CDcollective.com? Or why aren't we talking about all of our CD and download variants? If it's only about the music then the medium shouldn't matter. It seems like people are lying to themselves (or maybe not, but it seems like it). At least I'm up front - I like my records, I like the music on them, but I also love that they keep their value and sometimes go up. And they are way cooler than CDs. And it's nice to have that 1/100 that is hard to come by. If you still don't believe me, then what's with all of the fuss about owning test pressings? 1/3. C'mon... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrick Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 What is going to be great is when the bottom falls out and all the records that people are buying for $75 and up get them $4 at the record store when they go to trade them in. (Then the record store can sell them to me for $9) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flood Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 This is EXACTLY what I mean. Why else would you buy every color of Reinventing Axl Rose? Or why didn't people buy Shape of Punk to Come when it was readily available at Hot Topic before this recent reissue? Because it was on BLACK! . i collected every pressing of RaR because i love the album, the band has been extremely generous to me, and bands on my label, and i wanted a challenge. people didn't buy Shape... because the album bombed when it came out.. seriously bombed.... and people didn't realize how amazing it was till way after the fact... not to mention it was a pretty limited press run on vinyl to begin with. I personally didn't buy a copy back in the day because i only bought "vinyl only" releases on vinyl because i spent most of my time in a car with a cd player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirbypuckett Posted January 2, 2009 Author Share Posted January 2, 2009 This is a very backwards statement. What you're saying is that people only collect / listen to vinyl in order to brag about them or flip them for more money. What you're saying is that people only collect / listen to vinyl in order to brag about them or flip them for more money. This is EXACTLY what I mean. Why else would you buy every color of Reinventing Axl Rose? Or why didn't people buy Shape of Punk to Come when it was readily available at Hot Topic before this recent reissue? Because it was on BLACK! When I sold my copy of Shape for nearly $300 on ebay, it was because I knew there was going to be a reissue, and it would be identical to the one I was selling. I was right. And when I did sell it, I had two friends at work lamenting about how they never bought one because "they were all on black". And I did state that this is the passive collector, and generally speaking, I don't think these people will be around in five years. And yes, I spend a lot of money on records, and I do like to be able to brag about them, and I would like to know that my investment will be worth at least what I put into it. And I would say most any collector of any collectible will agree. Though what I brag about would be laughable to most (my Depeche Mode collection comes to mind). I find that people who brag (and that could be about anything) are VERY annoying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apeman Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 people didn't buy Shape... because the album bombed when it came out.. seriously bombed.... That's not quite true. I can't remember reading a single negative review of the album, when it came out. The Scandinavian music press was all over it, they got a lot of coverage, and around here you could pick up the album at most music stores. It was also considered a great loss, when they broke up. Again, lots of coverage when that happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxmartinxx Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 The music isn't the investment. The vinyl it comes on is. This same argument can be applied to CDs and downloads. Why isn't there a CDcollective.com? Or why aren't we talking about all of our CD and download variants? If it's only about the music then the medium shouldn't matter. There are CDs that are worth money. It's about scarcity in terms of supply and demand. I don't think that anyone debates that vinyl tends to hold it's value, but if that is the only reason, or even the main reason, you collect records, you won't be into it long term. I have news for you, not every record you buy is going to be worth what you paid for it. Most records you buy are just going to be used records and worth about 50%-75% of what you paid for it (just like CDs). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinylme Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 What is going to be great is when the bottom falls out and all the records that people are buying for $75 and up get them $4 at the record store when they go to trade them in.(Then the record store can sell them to me for $9) actually i am waiting for the same thing. i cant wait to be able to complete some collections of mine that are too expensive to do these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xjustinxschwierx Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 people didn't buy Shape... because the album bombed when it came out.. seriously bombed.... That's not quite true. I can't remember reading a single negative review of the album, when it came out. The Scandinavian music press was all over it, they got a lot of coverage, and around here you could pick up the album at most music stores. It was also considered a great loss, when they broke up. Again, lots of coverage when that happened. in America it bombed...I'm guilty of this too I really didn't get it until later. Not all critical successes translate to record sales going through the roof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dntheman1 Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 I think there's only one solution to the bottom falling out of vinyl marking: massive government bailout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtz Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 At least I'm up front - I like my records, I like the music on them, but I also love that they keep their value and sometimes go up. If this is the main reason you are buying records on vinyl, you should sell your collection now while it is still trendy. Sooner or later the vinyl craze will die down and your "investment" will not be worth nearly what you think it will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flood Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 im happy the only really valuable records i own, are ones i would never part with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Represses on various colors give people who missed out on the original pressings of an album the opportunity to own them. It's getting a little ridiculous how much people complain about various colors pressings. Nobody says you have to own every color. It's a personal choice. If it's too much, just don't do it. Some people are essentially saying that others should not have the oppurtunity to own a single copy of any given pressing of an album just so they can have "rare vinyl" or "complete collections", but once the amount of colors or presses exceeds what they want to collect they don't stop complaining for months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedavidescapeplan Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 im happy the only really valuable records i own, are ones i would never part with. Agreed completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhulud Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 What is this thread about again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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