Cliché Relationship Question

[Derek™]

One of these. Again.

I won't bore you all with the details, but I would definitely respect and consider any possible advice. I'll keep it short and simple.

Met a girl online, who lives quite a distance away.

We're both at points in our life where we'd be able to explore a future together, with college more-or-less getting wrapped up, and fairly stable jobs.

I've been chatting with her on a daily basis for the past four months or so. Webcam, phone, texts -- the whole thing.

We're both kind of eccentric, and really get one another. At least based off of our daily communication - I'm aware that living together in person would be slightly different.

Yesterday she informs me that - details aside - I can't really trust her. Some recent events have left me a little shaken up, to say the least.

Out of respect for her, I'll simply say that her action was unforgivable and completely unexpected. I did absolutely nothing to invoke it; it was a lack of judgement on her part, and we both acknowledged this. So I need to know... is it wrong of me to cut it off, at this point?

She gave me the option, saying she'd understand either decision I made. I've never done relationships because I was bored or lonely; when I invest feelings and time into a girl, it's because I'm in it for something genuine. Maybe that makes me the idiot, here. But I'm a firm believer in having complete trust, as a foundation to any relationship that's built to last. And it simply isn't there with us, anymore.

We initially met a half-year ago. I know that most people will roll their eyes at the notion of trying "the long distance" thing with someone - for less than a year - but what can I say? She made me happier than anyone else has been able to do in years. Just small things, and common interests. Things I know that I'll likely never find in another girl, ever. There were plans of meeting up and officially testing the waters, at the end of this year. But at this point I'm highly doubting that's an option.

If you think someone can make you genuinely happy, do you make an effort to forgive and forget? The problem is that this dilemma could theoretically happen again, depending on how long we continued to live far apart. I'm also a firm believer in the whole fool me once; shame on you... philosophy. I couldn't handle something like this, a year from now, if I decided to give her another chance.

And the other side of the token. "Once a cheater, always a cheater." How true is that? Is it asinine that I'm even remotely considering giving her a second try? My head's just been pretty fucked up over the last 48 hours, and I strongly suspect that I'm not able to think straight. I just need some advice from an outsider. I've never really been screwed over like this, before - should I just "count my losses" and move on from a (fairly) short-lived, long distance attempt? I know that there are obviously "more fish in the sea" or whatever, but hell. I feel like she was genuinely one in a million. But even with those kind of odds... I don't think that I - or anyone - deserves to undergo what she put me through. I guess I just need some clarity on the matter. My thoughts have been so sporadic, and I'm growing a little fatigued from my head being such a fucking mess.

Anyone have any insight or experience? On relationships, long-distance attempts, having your trust betrayed. Anything.

[almightyseancore]

i really want to say "it's the internet. forget about her and find a real chick in your neighborhood." but i met my woman online, via long distance phone/cam shit and now we live together and have 3 kids.

but you cant expect someone in another state that has never met you to be faithful to you, if thats the "actions" you're talking about.

don't take anything seriously until you meet her and spend some real time around the real her.

if shes rad, rad.

if not, the earths population of women to men is 2/1, and odds are, at least one of those chicks is way better than this one.

[user456]

From what you have mentioned here it seems more like you two are just friends.

[Derek™]

i really want to say "it's the internet. forget about her and find a real chick in your neighborhood." but i met my woman online, via long distance phone/cam shit and now we live together and have 3 kids.

but you cant expect someone in another state that has never met you to be faithful to you, if thats the "actions" you're talking about.

don't take anything seriously until you meet her and spend some real time around the real her.

if shes rad, rad.

if not, the earths population of women to men is 2/1, and odds are, at least one of those chicks is way better than this one.

You made good points. I've never bought into the whole internet / long-distance relationship thing, personally speaking. And I wouldn't have committed to the kind of time and affection that I made for her, if I didn't think it could have been great.

You do make a very valid point, though, with not knowing a girl until you meet her and actually spend time with her. I guess what's killing me... is that I feel [or felt] that I am [or was] a good judge of character. I wouldn't have given the relationship a chance if I so much as suspected that something like this could have happened. Part of me still can't really believe it. Just so out of the blue. I tried to convince myself that it was a terrible dream, as soon as we hung up the phone. But alas.

Thank you for the words of wisdom, though. It's inspiring to hear that you can meet a wife and start a family, while meeting on the 'net. I feel that it opens up a lot of doors that would otherwise be closed. I guess a lot of them should stay closed, though, for obvious reasons.

[Derek™]

From what you have mentioned here it seems more like you two are just friends.

Apologies for conveying the wrong message. I didn't think it was necessarily to spill out the exact details and progression of whatever we had. But I can assure you that it wasn't a matter of two friends getting caught up in the moment. We both truly considered a future together. Nothing rushed, of course - just natural steps at a healthy pace. But she gave off the illusion (I guess) that she was as committed and willing to have something with me, as I was with her. So, yeah.

I know that it's not fair to compare our run with a genuine, face-to-face relationship... but whatever it was, it was leaps and bounds beyond caring for one another as friends. If that were the case, I probably would have muttered an "Oh?", when she broke the news to me on the phone. Likely would have felt iffy about it for a few hours, and then moved on. Can't say that's been the case, unfortunately.

[cwilks]

Just from my own past experience: I've given a girl a second chance once and not too long after she cheated again. I feel like once they think they can get away with it they may try again.

[scottheisel]

She wouldn't have told you about her indiscretion if she didn't care for you and also share a desire to start something real with you. Don't hold it against her, meet her in person and see where it goes.

[thebiglebowski]

Take a break from her and clear your head, even if you think you want to put it behind you. Break it off but leave the possibility of getting back together out there. This does two things for you:

1. It sends the message that this is unacceptable. Continuing on and pretending like nothing happened makes you look weak and sends the message that there aren't going to be consequences for fuck ups.

2. It allows you to see how she reacts to you breaking up with her. Does she call you every night crying about how sorry she is? Or does she just say "whatever" and jump to someone else? If this is the girl and she really just had a one time screw up, she won't give up on you easily.

[jtoth000]

I agree with Scott here. Sounds like you got something you might want to give a try or you'll always wonder.

[Derek™]

She wouldn't have told you about her indiscretion if she didn't care for you and also share a desire to start something real with you. Don't hold it against her, meet her in person and see where it goes.

Thank, Scott. This is also something that I seriously considered. I knew that it took absolutely every ounce of her moral fiber to come clean about it - and I have no doubt in my mind that she could have gotten away with it, too. But I feel like she cared about me (or respected me) enough to just... lay all the cards on the table. I know that I'm overwhelmed with emotions, which is why I specifically don't want to say or decide on anything that I'll later regret. I think that if I can cope with the ordeal, I will indeed be comfortable chatting with her as just friends. At which point a visit wouldn't be out of the question. I just wonder if something good could from it, or if it'd end up being a classic case of salt on old wounds.

Either way. Thanks to everyone who's replied. Even though the last thing I need is more options and things to think about, I'm grateful for the input. I just want to be fair and analyze all possible angles.

[Derek™]

Take a break from her and clear your head, even if you think you want to put it behind you. Break it off but leave the possibility of getting back together out there. This does two things for you:

1. It sends the message that this is unacceptable. Continuing on and pretending like nothing happened makes you look weak and sends the message that there aren't going to be consequences for fuck ups.

2. It allows you to see how she reacts to you breaking up with her. Does she call you every night crying about how sorry she is? Or does she just say "whatever" and jump to someone else? If this is the girl and she really just had a one time screw up, she won't give up on you easily.

Yes and yes. I am so very incredibly sketchy about giving someone a second chance, in this kind of situation. I'm not a doormat, and I feel like there should in fact be consequences for these kind of actions. I just don't know what to think: we've never argued, and I've never "pushed" her away. Her situation involved an ex, and she claims that she made her (regrettable) decision because she was struggling to cope with our physical distance. Which, I mean, I can understand how she feels... but I've never been compelled to get my fix from an ex, or some random girl. It also makes me think that this could be a reoccurring problem... a lack of faith at her core.

But if this was indeed her one and only serious fuck-up, should it ruin both of our chances at potential happiness?

To answer your question, she's physically sick over the whole thing. It's all a pretty recent development - the news was broke, yesterday morning - but the few times we've chatted about it on the phone, she's been rather hysterical. When I suggested the idea of calling it quits, she admitted that she probably won't bother with relationships for another few years. She claims that I was the best thing to happen in her life - as overplayed as that statement probably is - and I know that she's genuinely sorry.

I like the advice that you and everyone has presented, about cooling down and taking a break. Seems very fair and practical. If she's got a new boyfriend in a month - something I seriously doubt - then I'll clearly take the hint and move on.

Thanks again, to everyone who's read this thread and provided honest input.

[thebiglebowski]

Was the guy an old boyfriend she has a long history with or just a random guy? Obviously, neither is good, but some girls just never get over their ex-boyfriend, even when they say they are "single". From your point of view, it is better if it was someone she just met. That is more likely to be a one time, drunken mistake. If it was an ex, that is a much more sticky situation.

[Derek™]

It was an ex. Fiancé.

The irony is that she was initially living with him (and completely "out of love"), when we met. Packing up her things, and loathing every day that she had to spend at the guy's place. She confirmed and swore, several times, that she had absolutely no more feelings of affection for the guy. They remained friends out of decency, but she was entirely more interested in me. Supposedly.

I agree that the situation is immensely more complicated. I think he was just there at the right time, for her, and she just... caved. I don't know. Even typing that out seems pretty iffy to me. I don't want to give it a go, and find out that I'm stuck living in some guy's shadow.

I'll probably call her a little later this evening, and try to gauge where we stand. I suppose it'll shed some light on the entire situation.

[thebiglebowski]

OK so you responded to my question before I asked it.

My former girlfriend never cheated on me. She just broke up with me to go back with her ex. Then she came back to me and I (foolishly) took her back. She did the same fucking thing to me a second time. I ended up feeling like shit twice instead of once.

We got along great. I was really happy. She was just never over her ex and he knew how to make her do what he wanted. I didn't do anything wrong, either. I was just in a situation where there was no chance for me to succeed. She was never over the other guy, even though she said all the right things.

I hope things work out for you. I'm so glad I don't have to deal with this anymore. One last piece of advice, though--If you do end up being with her do not put up with any shit regarding the other guy. When she cheats, she forfeits the right to keep the guy in her life. Tell her if you take her back you expect her to ignore his phone calls, de-friend on facebook, not go to parties or bars where he is, etc. 100% cut off contact from him. You are the one accepting her back--you set the conditions. If she is really dedicated to you, this shouldn't be a big deal. Don't be a psycho but make it clear that you aren't going to put up with ANYTHING fishy from now on.

[thebiglebowski]

It was an ex. Fiancé.

The irony is that she was initially living with him (and completely "out of love"), when we met. Packing up her things, and loathing every day that she had to spend at the guy's place. She confirmed and swore, several times, that she had absolutely no more feelings of affection for the guy. They remained friends out of decency, but she was entirely more interested in me. Supposedly.

I agree that the situation is immensely more complicated. I think he was just there at the right time, for her, and she just... caved. I don't know. Even typing that out seems pretty iffy to me. I don't want to give it a go, and find out that I'm stuck living in some guy's shadow.

I'll probably call her a little later this evening, and try to gauge where we stand. I suppose it'll shed some light on the entire situation.

Well let us know how it goes. Hard to give someone advice and not want to know how things turn out.

[goraiders]

I have no advice, but wanted to say you're a really good writer.

[Derek™]

Thanks for the kind words.

I just wrapped up a three-hour, 20-minute phone call with her. Things were discussed. She has no reason to not be honest with me at this point, so here's a few things I gathered.

First off, she has no feelings for the ex she slept with. We kind of dug at the cause of the event, and she seriously has no answer or justification for her actions. She claims that I made her immensely happy, and it had absolutely nothing to do with me not caring enough, et cetera. She even said the infamous "I tried to have my cake and eat it" line, saying that the distance apart just got to be too much. The ex was there, and before things even heated up, she knew that it was all wrong. She couldn't answer when I asked why she went through with the whole thing, though. It's kind of frustrating to have no logic or answer behind why she did what she did... but at the same time, I guess it's also a slight - albeit dark and twisted - relief to know that she doesn't have feelings for the ex. And that it had nothing to do with me.

I'm taking your advice to heart, Lebowski: I didn't present the idea, but if - by some fluke chance - that we take everything one day at a time, I'm going to ensure that she has to decide between me or the ex. There were several instances where she broke down and cried (at which point I could only assume that she was being sincere), and I genuinely believe that she regrets what she did, and won't be making any similar mistakes in the future. Knowing me, at this point, I'm still kind of a skeptic. [My mind keeps tracing back to her initial phone call, and the way she choked out what happened. And, of course, the sickly cold chill that swept through my stomach.]

So at this point, we both agreed that it would be a personal victory to get back to just friends. I know that it works for some people and not others, but we figure it's worth a shot. I'm taking everyone's advice, and preparing to undergo a hiatus of sorts where we won't be talking. It'll give both of us time to gauge who [in?]significant we are in one another's lives. It'll give me time to heal up, and it'll provide ample opportunity for her to reflect on her actions, and exactly what she wants in a relationship.

After said hiatus - for however long that may be - I told that we could start talking again... purely as friends. Testing the water at first, and seeing if it's unbearably awkward, or if we actually would be better off as friends. And if thinks were going smoothly, at that point, we'd possibly reconsider a meeting arrangement. Solely as friends, at that point, too. She lives in Boston, and I've never been there. I'm sure there are all kinds of things to see, and shows to attend. I insisted that it would be a "no-strings-attached" endeavor. And that after a few days, or a week, or whatever, we'd both be able to see how we interact in person. And if things didn't line up, as they sometime don't, then there'd be no hard feelings or strings attached, going our separate ways and remaining friends. To break it down to pure basics; neither one of us are holding our breath on repairing what we had. But we're both willing to patch up our friendship and keep the slim possibility alive... obviously allowing the chips to fall as they may.

Either way. It'll be a while before any major developments are made. Still coping with the emotional baggage that goes with such an event... and I think that time will truly resolve any issues, for either one of us.

We'll see. I got some answers from the phone chat. Not full closure by any means, but I feel a little more at peace of mind. Especially knowing that I'm not going to discard all of our possibilities, all at once. Just these two simple facts have helped me regain an appetite, and feel a little less lethargic. Trying to keep optimistic and focus on all the good, here. It's a work in progress, but I thank everyone in this thread for contributing. It's far too early to say anything for sure, but some of the replies in this topic could have very well salvaged something wonderful in my life. We'll see.

Much love to everyone.

No homo.

[controlthebleeding]

i know this is late, and i'm not one for eloquent words and what not, but if she told you, she may just be being honest so she doesn't have that guilt on her conscience. it's not to say she won't will do it again. i know many women who have be forthright with their husbands and boyfriends only to cheat again and again. it happens.

whether they are crying and sobbing and doing what not only to get you back. there is the shot they will do it again, no matter how much they say they care for you. i've seen and heard it all before.

but since you guys haven't met, like scott said, you can't really fault her. you're not there, so it's a total different ball game.

good call on not talking for a while to see what happens. hope everything works out though.

[thebiglebowski]

Alright man. Sounds like you at least have a plan. I would say give it at least a month or two but your call.

On the hiatus, be strong and don't talk to her at all. If she calls, just say "I don't think we should talk yet" or something. Just saying that it is pretty easy to set up a whole plan to take a break and reevaluate things and then slowly fall right back into where you were in a week. Stay strong.

[One Hundred Fifty-Two]

TL,DR. Are you dating this girl? If you aren't dating she didn't cheat.

[user456]

TL,DR. Are you dating this girl? If you aren't dating she didn't cheat.

Apparently they are dating. I was confused too. I'm not sure how a relationship works with someone you have never met in person. Dating to me means you actually physically and socially interact with another person.

[riddle350]

I say cut your loses and move on.

[controlthebleeding]

TL,DR. Are you dating this girl? If you aren't dating she didn't cheat.

Apparently they are dating. I was confused too. I'm not sure how a relationship works with someone you have never met in person. Dating to me means you actually physically and socially interact with another person.

you are so behind the times lady.. people date on twitter now!!

[counterfiction]

TLDR

[Derek™]

i know this is late, and i'm not one for eloquent words and what not, but if she told you, she may just be being honest so she doesn't have that guilt on her conscience. it's not to say she won't will do it again. i know many women who have be forthright with their husbands and boyfriends only to cheat again and again. it happens.

whether they are crying and sobbing and doing what not only to get you back. there is the shot they will do it again, no matter how much they say they care for you. i've seen and heard it all before.

but since you guys haven't met, like scott said, you can't really fault her. you're not there, so it's a total different ball game.

good call on not talking for a while to see what happens. hope everything works out though.

Truth. Part of me feels like that - regardless of where we'd ever end up - I'll always have a guard that won't be let down. And that shouldn't be the case, when you're "with" someone that you genuinely care about. Which is why my head is still a little jumbled about everything. The hiatus is needed more than ever, for sure. I also considered that she "came clean" to clear her guilt... but based off of what was said in the 03+ hours, last night, I feel like there was more to it than that. I know that it wouldn't justify anything, but it'd be a huge relief, for either of us, if we could find out why she did what she did. She has no words or explanation, and I don't know if that's good or bad. Either way, I feel like this whole debacle will force me to proceed with caution, for all future [pseudo-] relationships.

Alright man. Sounds like you at least have a plan. I would say give it at least a month or two but your call.

On the hiatus, be strong and don't talk to her at all. If she calls, just say "I don't think we should talk yet" or something. Just saying that it is pretty easy to set up a whole plan to take a break and reevaluate things and then slowly fall right back into where you were in a week. Stay strong.

I agree with this. She and I are both on the same page about taking a break, so that's good. At this point, I'm really just waiting to see whatever happens. It all just needs to be natural, you know? If this much-needed break - which was completely pushed by me - somehow causes both of us to realize that we're better off counting our losses and moving on, then so be it. Literally taking the whole thing one day at a time, and seeing how it progresses before even considering the next step. A month or two, minimum, sounds pretty fair.

Are you dating this girl? If you aren't dating she didn't cheat.

Hah. Ironically enough, this is exactly what all her best friends were telling her. In their books, she did nothing wrong at all. To answer your question; I don't think we were "conventionally" dating. But what completely constitutes that? As Scott and several people have said, long-distance vs. real life scenarios are entirely different. And we most certainly were planning some time to be around one another, in person, to see where it went from there. But until that trip was made, we both mutually agreed that we cared about one another. Immensely. We became one of each other's best friends, and firmly agreed that we'd be staying exclusive. There were obviously many heartfelt conversations, confessions of feelings, and so on. To be honest, our daily communication was on par [and often healthier, or closer] than typical couples who are "by the books" dating. And we both knew this. Of course we weren't able to spend weekends together, or go out every few nights. But I honestly feel like that didn't matter. Dating or not, she and I both feel like complete shit from the whole situation. Even if it was a pseudo-relationship, it doesn't change the fact that there were a lot of mutual emotions, feelings of affection, trust, and all that mushy stuff. And she completely crumbled that. Neither one of us thinks she's remotely in the clear, just because she and I weren't physically dating.

Apparently they are dating. I was confused too. I'm not sure how a relationship works with someone you have never met in person. Dating to me means you actually physically and socially interact with another person.

Everyone seems stuck on this definition of "dating". That was one of many goals, yes, and something we planned on exploring down the line. But for the time being, we were both entirely content with just... being exclusive and quite into one another. Perhaps it wasn't an official relationship. And clearly, by the common verdict, we were not exactly dating face to face. But in the grand scheme of things, does that matter? I ask that you use a little empathy, here, and place yourself in a similar situation. Falling for someone miles and miles away... and becoming extremely close to them. Chatting with them on a daily basis - more frequently than most all of your friends, even - and recognizing that you both care about one another a great deal. Plans are made to visit in the not-so-distant future, and you both agree that just the company and attention, 3,000 miles apart, is more rewarding and cherished than most "in person" relationships have proven to be.

And then said person sleeps with their ex on a random whim.

Do you really just shrug that off? I'm not trying to sound facetious here. I'm genuinely curious if someone just kind of mutters eh, whatever and moves on without a second thought. That seems ridiculous to me. But maybe I just wear my heart on my sleeve. Both of us recognize the weight and damage of what she did. Just because we've never had the opportunity to hold hands, kiss, or share a dinner in person... doesn't make the experience any less painful. That's my opinion, at least.

I say cut your loses and move on.

Totally appreciate the blunt truth, here. It's something I'm running through my head, again and again. Part of me wonders that if I even have to hesitate about a second chance... is she really worth it? So many random thoughts. Sorting them out. I may eventually necro-bump this topic if something develops way down the line. Not that anyone would particularly care. But for the time being; space and solitude have never sounded more sweet.