jonnyh85 Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Anyone have or had a Technics SL-1200 MK2 and can tell me what they think about it.....I'm thinking of picking a used one up (like new condition). It is a few years old and has been used as a home player not a DJ table. I've read its good for both....anyways the cost will be around $400...Worth the price or should I just get a Pro-Ject Debut for that price..... I bought a second hand MK2, great table in terms of build, but you're likely to want to put an "audiophile" cartridge on it and get a good preamp to get the most out of it for home use. My two cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psychoriley Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Thanks for the info...anyone else? pros, cons...get it or don't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearchuck Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Thanks for the info...anyone else? pros, cons...get it or don't? I should preface this by stating that I don't have any personal experience with either table. That being said, both have a great reputation amongst audiophiles and I think in terms of sound, you would probably be very happy with either one. Of course, without being able to test them back-to-back, you'll never really know for sure. So if we trust the opinions of others and we're putting these on equal ground sonically, I think the thing to consider is that these tables are almost the complete opposite of one another. The technics a fully-automatic, quartz-controlled direct drive that's built like a fucking tank. If it is in fact in like-new shape and you take care of it, it will probably last you another 30 years, if not more. It's got a fair share of bells and whistles: strobe and target lights, pitch control, detachable headshell (good for switching back and forth between different cartridges), adjustable VTA and the ability to switch speeds at the touch of a button. Right now I have two vintage tables - an awesome, tweaked-out AR-XA and a fully-serviced, mint Dual 1229. While the manual AR is the better sounding table of the two, the automatic features of the Dual are much more convenient to use. If you're someone who just wants to cue up a record with the push of a button and then forget about it, you may want to go with the technics. Buttons, lights and other gadgets are also kinda fun to play around with and watch. My Dual is a friggin' rube goldberg machine underneath ... just a mess of gears and intricate levers - which are a pain in the ass when you need to clean / lubricate - but it's such a blast to watch it go through the motions of playing records. The Pro-ject Debut III on the other hand is 100 percent manual. Some people like to have complete control and it makes them feel a little more connected to the table. As I mentioned above, my Dual is great for convenience, but that doesn't mean that I don't have fun playing around with the AR as well. Another nice thing about these manual tables is that they're so beautifully simple. If you like the clean, classic look, then the Pro-ject might be the one for you. It also means that if something goes wrong, fixing and diagnosing the problem might be a little easier. Some might argue that the pro-ject tone arm is better because it's totally rigid. There's no detachable headshell like the technics, which can resonate and add some extra sound. I'm wiling to bet that you probably wouldn't even notice the difference though. Again, not that I have experience with it, but I have read about little problems that can plague the pro-ject. In fact, there was a thread posted last week where some kid couldn't get rid of a hum, and I've heard about that problem before. I've also heard a few people say that the pro-ject will simply make you want to upgrade to better models, whereas you don't get that too much with the technics. If I had to choose, I'd probably go with the technics. It's just an awesome, classic beast of a turntable and for the money, you probably won't do much better ... at least not for a beginner audiophile deck. If it's in "like new" condition, I think that $400 is a tad steep, but not ridiculous. If I were you, I'd see if the guy would take $350. I found this nice little review on Audiogon. It's obviously geared toward the technics, but he seems fair in his analysis and brings up other models from the likes of Rega, Pro-Ject and Music Hall. http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/frr.pl?ranlg&1093010514 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psychoriley Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Thanks for all the info!! ....I was thinking of shooting a $350 offer already to. I still have only seen a few pics ...so who knows for sure anything till I see and hear it....just figured if I'm spending that kind of money....may as well get a few opinions. I read the 'Hum" problem to...and also someone else saying thay had a similar problem.... and I'll be honest...the fully automatic does sound more appealing to me for sure....I hate if I'm not right there ready to pick up the arm at the end of an LP playing and it just rides round n round till I do....actually I fell asleep a few time doing that and let it run for hours before....sure thats not good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electrocute Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 I will admit the Technics table is nice. You can also pick up something like a Pioneer PL-7 for cheap and throw a nice cartridge/stylus on it. I had a pro-ject and was not overall impressed with the build. I then picked up fully refurbished PL-7 for $75 and threw a Grado Black cartridge on it and it sound beautiful. I was running it through a Marantz 2216B and a pair of polk monitor 50's. The PL-7 is fully automatic but you can manually use it if you please. Solid TT on a budget. If your looking for a vintage TT let me know and I can possibly put you in touch with some people who can give you a good deal on something depending on what you are looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearchuck Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 Regarding the technics, I forgot to ask if you inquired about the cartridge and its condition. If it's something nicer, that might sweeten the pot in favor of the SL-1200 even more. The Pro-ject comes with an Ortofon OM-5 ... which is fine and will leave you with upgrade options, but I have heard one before and I wasn't a fan. It was a little too clinical / detailed in my opinion. Of course, I also prefer carts with a bit of warmth and soul. It all depend on your tastes. I've been meaning to post a bit more on this thread in favor of going the vintage route. While there are definitely drawbacks (you need to do A LOT of research, the stuff is harder to find and there's usually more maintenance / upkeep involved with vintage equipment) I think you can get a lot more for your money in comparison with buying something new. $400 just seems like a lot of money for a deck that's considered good for beginners. I would much rather shop around for a mid / top of the line vintage TT from the 70s or 80s, which can be bought for relatively low prices and then spend the rest on upgrades, or even on additional equipment like speakers, receivers, preamps, etc etc. I think it should be noted that for anyone looking for a new turntable, you must consider that it's only one piece of a total system. You can have a greatest deck in the world, but if your amp and speakers suck, you're not going to be able to enjoy it to the fullest. The good news is that there's lots of great, reliable equipment out there that can be had for cheap as well. Again, just do the research and don't be afraid to ask for help. Both Audiokarma.com and Vinylengine.com are great sites for this sort of thing and I've found that the people who post are ridiculously nice and willing to offer advice and encouragement. It's feels like they truly want people to become part of of the audiophile community, whereas if you post on Vinyl Collective about how your dream is to release a record, you're more than likely to get shit on. Not that I disagree with the fact that certain people simply shouldn't be releasing music; I just think that there are more constructive ways to give advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajxd Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 For that price you can get a much better modern table that's not direct drive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerseyelsie Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 Hi. I have read through most of this thread, whew! Would anyone recommend the Project Debut III in red, for a "beginner user?" Dumb question: but I saw on amazon some have lids and others didn't that is removable or an option? B/C I want one with a lid! I haven't played a vinyl since I was a kid. I am new to collecting as well....ty. BQ: if there's a thread here about how people store their vinyl, I would like to read that too, please link it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slinch Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 The Pro-Ject is a great entry to vinyl, and they all come with the lid. Here's the thread you're looking for: http://vinylcollective.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2039&start=0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerseyelsie Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 The Pro-Ject is a great entry to vinyl, and they all come with the lid.Here's the thread you're looking for: http://vinylcollective.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2039&start=0 That was quick, I'll check it out! Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearchuck Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 For that price you can get a much better modern table that's not direct drive. it's 100% a myth that belt drive tables are inherently better than direct drives. There's positives and negatives to both, but a quality DD turntable will perform as well (and be just as quiet) as a good belt drive. For steady, rumble-free performance, you'll have no problems with the SL-1200. In no way does that mean that I think the Pro-ject is bad though. I'm just saying that direct drive TTs should never be dismissed as being worse than belt drives. Now for some real vintage fun, start looking for a nice idler drive table ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christoph311 Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 I just bought a audio technica atlp 120usb TT and so far I love the table but the stylus and cartridge it comes with has a tracking force of 3-5 grams (which I've read is way to heavy). I been reading that my AT-P2 cartridge that is standard on the TT has a stylus that is really nice range of highs and lows called the ATX-N5 that has a low tracking force and can slip on my already existing cartridge but I can't find it on any web sites. I've also been pondering on just changing out the cartridge but have no idea on what to get... I've read that any 1/2 inch cartridge will do but this is all new to me and I have no idea what to look for. Is there any info or suggestions you may be able to help me with? (also I know everyone says not to by a USB TT but I have no choice right now I don't have the room and I couldn't stand the POS ion TT anymore) feel free to dumb things down if you have the patients. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearchuck Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 I just bought a audio technica atlp 120usb TT and so far I love the table but the stylus and cartridge it comes with has a tracking force of 3-5 grams (which I've read is way to heavy). I been reading that my AT-P2 cartridge that is standard on the TT has a stylus that is really nice range of highs and lows called the ATX-N5 that has a low tracking force and can slip on my already existing cartridge but I can't find it on any web sites. I've also been pondering on just changing out the cartridge but have no idea on what to get... I've read that any 1/2 inch cartridge will do but this is all new to me and I have no idea what to look for. Is there any info or suggestions you may be able to help me with? (also I know everyone says not to by a USB TT but I have no choice right now I don't have the room and I couldn't stand the POS ion TT anymore) feel free to dumb things down if you have the patients. Usually a high tracking force (3 grams or more) indicates that the stylus is for DJ use (scratching, etc etc). If that's not your intention, either one of these should be just fine ... http://www.turntableneedles.com/Needle-205-DET_p_933.html http://www.turntableneedles.com/Needle-205-DEC_p_932.html Just reading a few threads on that cart and it sounds like the AT-P2 is a relatively good performer. 3 - 5 grams is tracking force is definitely heavy though and not the best idea in terms of vinyl preservation. Go with one of the stylus replacements above, or if you want to consider swapping the cartridge altogether, consider the Audio Technica AT-95e which is regarded as one of the best budget carts for the money. It is widely available for about $50. Other budget carts to consider: Shure M97XE, Grado Black or Ortofon OM-10. Each will have its own particular sonic qualities ... it just depends on what you like. Listening firsthand is always the best way to go, but if that's not possible, just do a little research. Tons of people use those carts so you'll find plenty of worthwhile opinions on the interwebs. By the way, it's not that having a USB turntable is bad; it's just that when most people talk about them, it's in direct reference to those ION / Crosley pieces of plastic junk. Technically speaking, USB capabilities don't make a table bad; shoddy manufacturing and shitty parts make them bad. Of course, what do you expect for less than $100? While your AT-LP 120 is nothing to do backflips over, it's not the worse table in the world. If you're a casual listener who simply wants to crank some punk rock real loud, it will do just fine for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajxd Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 For that price you can get a much better modern table that's not direct drive. it's 100% a myth that belt drive tables are inherently better than direct drives. There's positives and negatives to both, but a quality DD turntable will perform as well (and be just as quiet) as a good belt drive. For steady, rumble-free performance, you'll have no problems with the SL-1200. In no way does that mean that I think the Pro-ject is bad though. I'm just saying that direct drive TTs should never be dismissed as being worse than belt drives. Now for some real vintage fun, start looking for a nice idler drive table ... Find me a $5,000 direct drive table. Find me a $10,000 direct drive. Find me $100,000 direct drive. Considering all high level turntables are belt driven, I think there's a reason behind that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psychoriley Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 OK, so I passed up getting the Technics SL-1200 MK2. I really can't quite afford it yet.....now for my next question. What about the Technics SL-1500 Direct Drive Turntable. Not sure what cartridge....In the description they just say works great. Needle good.Still in original box and packing. Anyways, I tried to look it up but couldn't find to much about it. Found a few threads some people said there good but not much else than that. They're asking $100...and of coarse I'll see if I get get it for a little less. But this would actually be more affordable for sure....anyone have/had or know much about this one? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearchuck Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 it's 100% a myth that belt drive tables are inherently better than direct drives. There's positives and negatives to both, but a quality DD turntable will perform as well (and be just as quiet) as a good belt drive. For steady, rumble-free performance, you'll have no problems with the SL-1200. In no way does that mean that I think the Pro-ject is bad though. I'm just saying that direct drive TTs should never be dismissed as being worse than belt drives. Now for some real vintage fun, start looking for a nice idler drive table ... Find me a $5,000 direct drive table. Find me a $10,000 direct drive. Find me $100,000 direct drive. Considering all high level turntables are belt driven, I think there's a reason behind that. Wow. Amazing point, especially considering how many people on this board are buying $5000 decks. That's like saying since all high end sports cars are manual, a Honda Accord with automatic transmission must not be any good. Or let's imagine there was a band that paid $20,000 to record a masterpiece of an album ... does that mean that someone couldn't record something on his computer in his bedroom that wasn't just as enjoyable? Yes, we understand that there are amazing (expensive) belt-driven tables. The poster's price point was around $400; there are excellent examples of BOTH direct drive and belt driven tables at that level. Listen folks - when it comes to audio equipment, don't ever let anyone tell you that one thing is better than another. Everyone has varying opinions. More importantly, everyone hears sound differently. There really is no right or wrong answer. If you want the truth, the best way to go is listen for yourself. If that's not possible, do as much research as you can online because there is plenty of great advice outside the realm of Vinyl Collective. Case in point - I just did a google search for "Direct drive vs Belt Drive" and this is one of the first threads that popped up: http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=122981 Here you'll find a rational discussion of both, and maybe even a little Direct Drive leaning. Poke around the web a bit more and you'll find plenty of folks in the belt drive camp though. Point is, we're talking Coke Vs Pepsi here, people. Both good, both have their fans. The one truth that I'm sure of is that a $5000+ belt-driven turntable would be amazing (it better be). However, a like-new Technics SL-1200 direct drive for $400 is pretty dang good too. Seriously, just ask around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearchuck Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 OK, so I passed up getting the Technics SL-1200 MK2. I really can't quite afford it yet.....now for my next question. What about the Technics SL-1500 Direct Drive Turntable. Not sure what cartridge....In the description they just say works great. Needle good.Still in original box and packing. Anyways, I tried to look it up but couldn't find to much about it. Found a few threads some people said there good but not much else than that. They're asking $100...and of coarse I'll see if I get get it for a little less. But this would actually be more affordable for sure....anyone have/had or know much about this one?Thanks No personal experience, but Technics is obviously respected and feedback on the table seems to be positive. And if it really is in good condition, $100 is reasonable ... at least based on what I saw on eBay and Craigslist. If it's possible, ask if you can give the table a test run before you buy it. You definitely want to make sure that it's fully functional. It's a manual too, fyi. For $75 - 100, you could do way worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajxd Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 I wasn't trying to come off as a dick, sorry. I never said anything against his budget or what type of table he should buy. I was stating that only high end companies make belt driven tables, and there's clearly a reason for it. I don't see a point in having a direct drive unless you plan to be a DJ and destroy your records. And AudioKarma is the WORST place for advice. Its all older guys who are bored and never upgraded their systems, except by lifting their cables off the floor with dixie cups. I posted on there when I first got into audio, and quickly realized my mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajxd Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 Also what's your audio background? Ever work in the field? My best friend is a tech in your city, maybe we crossed paths when I worked in the field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christoph311 Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 @bearchuck, thanks! I'll switch out the stylus for now, then look into buying another cartridge later after doing some research. Peace, Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearchuck Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 I wasn't trying to come off as a dick, sorry. I never said anything against his budget or what type of table he should buy. I was stating that only high end companies make belt driven tables, and there's clearly a reason for it. I don't see a point in having a direct drive unless you plan to be a DJ and destroy your records. And AudioKarma is the WORST place for advice. Its all older guys who are bored and never upgraded their systems, except by lifting their cables off the floor with dixie cups. I posted on there when I first got into audio, and quickly realized my mistake. No worries. I always like a good discussion about audio equipment. I think my point was that there are great examples (and terrible ones too) of all types of turntables. It's apparent that the SL-1200 is highly regarded, as are some of the higher end direct drive turntables of the 70s and early eighties. And I'm sure that there are plenty of shitty low-end direct drives from the era as well. Anyway, what the hell do I know - I'm using a belt drive and an idler right now! Honestly, I have no clue why most super-elite TTs always use belts. I've read that for a small, high-end turntable company that belt drives are simply cheaper and much easier to implement compared to direct drives. No clue if that's true or not. Actually, there are a few crazy expensive DDs out there ... http://www.anthems.com/The-World's-Most-Expensive-Turntable_s1032.html http://www.stereophile.com/turntables/258 I really like Audiokarma, but that's just me. I also really like vintage equipment (I get the feeling you don't) and AK is certainly geared more toward that sort of thing. Of course there are plenty of old dudes and blowhards set in their ways, but in general every time I've searched for advice, I've always been treated with respect and no one has ever looked down on me for asking a stupid question ... or for having mid-fi equipment. And once I spent enough time on the forum, I started to get a better idea of the posters who actually knew what the hell they were talking about. I think it's like that with any forum though. As for my background, I've been in the music "biz" (and in Charlotte) for ten years, the most recent projects being tinyengines.net and beartrappr.com. It makes sense that I'd be into high-end audio equipment, but really I've only gotten into that end of things in the past year. I'm very much a beginner myself but it's really captured my interest and I've definitely immersed myself into the hobby way more than a healthy amount. Kinda doubt that I know your friend, but just for shits and giggles, who is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajxd Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 See, I used to be way into the vintage audio. I had a full Marantz setup. 2330B receiver, 6200 turntable, and Imperial 5G speakers. And then I was offered a ridiculous deal on a set of Boston Acoustics VR-3s and they blew me away. Then I was offered a ridiculous deal on a Rotel RA-1062, and it blew me away. So then I decided to get a Pro-Ject 1.3, and again, blown away. I did blind tests with every piece to make sure I wasn't just going "Oh new is better", but every time I chose the modern piece over the vintage. As for my friend, he runs Sound and Imaging Concepts, his name is Steve. General, yes, but for his regards, I'll leave last names out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icecream Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 just a quick question maybe someone can help me out. i'm fixing a few low end turntables to sell and i'm having some trouble with this one. the tone arm keeps sliding to a certain spot on the record almost all the way to the middle of the record. there is no way to adjust the tone arm so i tried setting a coin on top of it but no luck. any other suggestions ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizarospeak Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I just got a Music Hall MMF 2.2 LE for my birthday. It's looks like it's going to get a speeding ticket sitting in my living room and sounds WAY better then my $100 Ion DJ turn table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dynamitekid Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 ok, I'm looking into buying a new turntable for around $100. Should I go vintage or should I get a new one? Does anyone have any suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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