Cleaning Your Records

[ajxd]

If you're record is dirty, it will make noise. If you remove some dirt, it will be less noisey. 

[Requiescat]

5 hours ago, Gumbo72203 said:

Posting so I can come back to this later.  

 

Never done any cleaning.  Need to start.  Will be picking up an Audioquest brush at the very least....  do these actually help with noise?  Or do they simply clean off the record with no accounting for sonics?

A record brush typically is only good for removing surface dust and debris that is loose on the record. As a general rule it will NOT address more stubborn grit and contaminants that may be embedded in the grooves itself. For that you would want at minimum a good cleaning solution, a brush to scrub the record, pure rinse water, and some sort of cloth or vacuum to remove the contaminated water and rinse water.

 

A good record cleaning machine is a critical tool for your records and probably the most overlooked part of the entire vinyl hobby by most people in my experience. Ultrasonic being the best, a vacuum based system being second best, and manual systems like a Spin Clean would be last on that list. Things like wood glue I consider extremely bad practice for countless reasons so I wouldn't even remotely consider that a safe option no matter what anyone decides to argue otherwise. If budget is an issue then get yourself something like a Spin Clean and you'll be good for a while. If you can afford it, I suggest something closer to a VPI 16.5 at minimum and if your budget really allows then something like the Audio Desk Systemme (ultrasonic cleaner) would be the best by far. Just remember something like this is essentially a piece of gear you'll keep with you as long as you own your record collection so it's absolutely a forward-thinking investment. Don't be afraid to spend some real money here because the benefits over the years will more than make up for the initial investment. I cannot emphasize this enough.

 

All records benefit from cleaning including brand new/sealed records. Why? Even records from the factory contain contaminants from the pressing process itself. It's good practice to clean all your records before spinning them whether new or used. I also highly suggest keeping some spare inner sleeves, preferably anti-static and scratch free sleeves like Mobile Fidelity inner sleeves or other similar rice paper sleeves. Regular paper sleeves are chock full of debris and paper scrap that will just recontaminate your freshly cleaned record. Once a record is cleaned, it's relatively safe to re-use the sleeve if it was replaced though eventually you may want to replace it again just to ensure your sleeve is absolutely clean.

 

As mentioned above there are several cleaning solutions that work well and also DIY solutions that are very affordable. Most of those are mixtures of pure water (distilled, de-ionized, etc.), some type of soap like Dawn, Kodak PhotoFlo which acts as a surfactant, and often pure alchohol (isopropanol NOT rubbing alcohol.)

 

I weighed in on this only because I've worked closely with brands like VPI and their RCMs and am in the process of designing a new vacuum-based one for sale to the public at a lower price point as their 16.5 as well with added functionality and better design features. Hoping to have that done in the next month or two at most.

[Professor Finn]

8 minutes ago, raeinn said:

A record brush typically is only good for removing surface dust and debris that is loose on the record. As a general rule it will NOT address more stubborn grit and contaminants that may be embedded in the grooves itself. For that you would want at minimum a good cleaning solution, a brush to scrub the record, pure rinse water, and some sort of cloth or vacuum to remove the contaminated water and rinse water.

 

A good record cleaning machine is a critical tool for your records and probably the most overlooked part of the entire vinyl hobby by most people in my experience. Ultrasonic being the best, a vacuum based system being second best, and manual systems like a Spin Clean would be last on that list. Things like wood glue I consider extremely bad practice for countless reasons so I wouldn't even remotely consider that a safe option no matter what anyone decides to argue otherwise. If budget is an issue then get yourself something like a Spin Clean and you'll be good for a while. If you can afford it, I suggest something closer to a VPI 16.5 at minimum and if your budget really allows then something like the Audio Desk Systemme (ultrasonic cleaner) would be the best by far. Just remember something like this is essentially a piece of gear you'll keep with you as long as you own your record collection so it's absolutely a forward-thinking investment. Don't be afraid to spend some real money here because the benefits over the years will more than make up for the initial investment. I cannot emphasize this enough.

 

All records benefit from cleaning including brand new/sealed records. Why? Even records from the factory contain contaminants from the pressing process itself. It's good practice to clean all your records before spinning them whether new or used. I also highly suggest keeping some spare inner sleeves, preferably anti-static and scratch free sleeves like Mobile Fidelity inner sleeves or other similar rice paper sleeves. Regular paper sleeves are chock full of debris and paper scrap that will just recontaminate your freshly cleaned record. Once a record is cleaned, it's relatively safe to re-use the sleeve if it was replaced though eventually you may want to replace it again just to ensure your sleeve is absolutely clean.

 

As mentioned above there are several cleaning solutions that work well and also DIY solutions that are very affordable. Most of those are mixtures of pure water (distilled, de-ionized, etc.), some type of soap like Dawn, Kodak PhotoFlo which acts as a surfactant, and often pure alchohol (isopropanol NOT rubbing alcohol.)

 

I weighed in on this only because I've worked closely with brands like VPI and their RCMs and am in the process of designing a new vacuum-based one for sale to the public at a lower price point as their 16.5 as well with added functionality and better design features. Hoping to have that done in the next month or two at most.

This is some quality advise. If VPI came out with a cheaper vacuum cleaner at say a $350-$400 price range I'd feel a lot better buying it since honestly I'd rather not spend more on a record cleaner than I have on my awesome tube amp or the turntable I'm planning to getting. Right now I'm just piggy-backing off my dad's equipment (which includes a spin-clean which is passable I guess) for the most part while I put together my own setup.

[Requiescat]

4 minutes ago, Professor Finn said:

If VPI came out with a cheaper vacuum cleaner at say a $350-$400 price range I'd feel a lot better buying it since honestly I'd rather not spend more on a record cleaner than I have on my awesome tube amp or the turntable I'm planning to getting.

Well then I have some good news for you in that regard. As I said I'm currently in the process of creating my own RCM to compete with the VPI 16.5 due to my experience with these systems and having spent countless hours researching and developing a better design. I've currently got a working prototype and am ironing out the kinks of the design to ensure it's not only a better RCM than the 16.5 but also at a significantly lower price point in that ~$400 range. I absolutely agree the $600 price point for a new 16.5 is too expensive and a better design can be made available for cheaper to the public.

 

Examples of improved features are a stronger vacuum, dual directionality so the platter spins clockwise and counter clockwise, massive improvements to the platter (acrylic not particle board like the 16.5) and the cabinet design and also water catchment systems versus the 16.5. I could go on and on but that's enough to give a decent idea of what I'm attempting to do. I do truly hope to have the first units available for sale around July of this year. Since these will be made entirely by me in house it will not be quite as fast as ordering a 16.5 but that's just how that is gonna have to be until I can secure funding to have better production on the units since I'm already being approached about distribution and more customer interest than I ever expected. I will do my best to keep this thread updated with progress as I have more to share.

[NewOldStock]

17 minutes ago, raeinn said:

Well then I have some good news for you in that regard. As I said I'm currently in the process of creating my own RCM to compete with the VPI 16.5 due to my experience with these systems and having spent countless hours researching and developing a better design. I've currently got a working prototype and am ironing out the kinks of the design to ensure it's not only a better RCM than the 16.5 but also at a significantly lower price point in that ~$400 range. I absolutely agree the $600 price point for a new 16.5 is too expensive and a better design can be made available for cheaper to the public.

 

Examples of improved features are a stronger vacuum, dual directionality so the platter spins clockwise and counter clockwise, massive improvements to the platter (acrylic not particle board like the 16.5) and the cabinet design and also water catchment systems versus the 16.5. I could go on and on but that's enough to give a decent idea of what I'm attempting to do. I do truly hope to have the first units available for sale around July of this year. Since these will be made entirely by me in house it will not be quite as fast as ordering a 16.5 but that's just how that is gonna have to be until I can secure funding to have better production on the units since I'm already being approached about distribution and more customer interest than I ever expected. I will do my best to keep this thread updated with progress as I have more to share.

I'd be down for this if you can get it to the UK for a reasonable cost!

[dethrock]

31 minutes ago, raeinn said:

massive improvements to the platter (acrylic not particle board like the 16.5) 

Why on earth would an RCM need an acrylic platter?

 

Also, lastvaultboy, check out the Squeaky Clean http://www.squeakycleanvinyl.com/complete-rcm.html

[Requiescat]

14 minutes ago, dethrock said:

Why on earth would an RCM need an acrylic platter?

Simple. You're cleaning records using water. Wood especially particle board like the 16.5 platter is just about the worst possible material for that purpose because of how it negatively responds to water. I don't care how careful you are with your cleaning because at some point over your RCM's lifetime water will contact the platter and the last thing you want is it to be made of a material that adversely reacts to that. Even living in a humid environment will over time affect materials like that just due to the moisture in the air in the first place. Acrylic solves that issue perfectly as a permanent solution besides looking infinitely better from an aesthetic point of view as well. It's also a surface that when kept clean is the perfect substrate for the record eliminating the need for any type of mat like cork or rubber. Make sense now?

Edited May 18, 2016 by raeinn

[Mr Mojo]

I never clean my vinyl records other than with a record brush.

 

I feel like such a savage now.

[dethrock]

2 minutes ago, raeinn said:

Simple. You're cleaning records using water. Wood especially particle board like the 16.5 platter is just about the worst possible material for that purpose because of how it negatively responds to water. I don't care how careful you are with your cleaning because at some point over your RCM's lifetime water will contact the platter and the last thing you want is it to be made of a material that adversely reacts to that. Acrylic solves that issue perfectly as a permanent solution besides looking infinitely better from an aesthetic point of view as well. It's also a surface that when kept clean is the perfect substrate for the record eliminating the need for any type of mat like cork or rubber. Make sense now?

It makes sense but seems like overkill to me. I guess when I think acrylic platter I'm thinking an actual turntable platter like the one Pro-ject or Groovetracer make. I'm sure yours will be much simpler. Interested in seeing how your RCM turns out. I think it's cool that you're doing it!

 

There was a guy over on Canuck Audio Mart making his own. I think he sold them all but if I can find a link I'll post it.

[Requiescat]

8 minutes ago, Mr Mojo said:

I never clean my vinyl records other than with a record brush.

 

I feel like such a savage now.

Haha. Hey man do what works for you! I'm not here to judge I'm just offering my experience and opinion on the subject. I used a brush for a long time but eventually moved on to a RCM myself. It was probably one of the smartest purchases of my entire audio hobby because the results/benefits were immediate and extremely apparent upon first use and every subsequent use. My only frustration, and one I think we all share, is the cost for your average good RCM and budget is always going to be a deciding factor for whatever route you take if any at all. In the end all that really matters is you enjoy your records for as long as possible in whatever way you see fit! 

 

6 minutes ago, dethrock said:

It makes sense but seems like overkill to me. I guess when I think acrylic platter I'm thinking an actual turntable platter like the one Pro-ject or Groovetracer make. I'm sure yours will be much simpler. Interested in seeing how your RCM turns out. I think it's cool that you're doing it!

Yeah I think you're thinking in terms of turntables like you said. I'm only talking a 3/8"-1/2" thick platter. Just something sturdy enough to withstand vertical pressure from scrubbing your record clean using a brush. Turntable platters are typically thicker to add mass which can yield better sonic and mechanical results so obviously that doesn't apply to a RCM.

[Requiescat]

Removed.

Edited May 18, 2016 by raeinn
Double post on accident.

[Freki]

Applaud all your efforts and contributions but honestly I have no idea how the VPI platter would ever get wet unless you're applying your solution like a gorilla.

[Tardcore]

also consider that cleaning solution isn't water.  It evaporates almost immediately.  humidity is likely the bigger risk, but not something I worry about (VPI 16.5 owner).  

[ajxd]

1 hour ago, Tardcore said:

also consider that cleaning solution isn't water.  It evaporates almost immediately.  humidity is likely the bigger risk, but not something I worry about (VPI 16.5 owner).  

Gotta argue this. A lot of these solutions are water based. Some close to 75% DI-water. And rinse solutions are typically 95% DI-water...

 

But yes. Humidity is the devil too. I don't see any issue with acrylic platter.

[ajxd]

9 hours ago, dethrock said:

There was a guy over on Canuck Audio Mart making his own. I think he sold them all but if I can find a link I'll post it.

I just ordered this.

[dethrock]

1 hour ago, ajxd said:

I just ordered this.

You're talking about the Squeaky Clean? The one I meant was an actual all in one unit made of wood. I can't find the link to it though.

[ajxd]

Oh. Yes I did mean the Squeaky Clean. I too looked through Canuck Audio and only saw the Squeaky Clean so that's what I assumed.

[flanagan0718]

On 3/21/2013 at 4:20 PM, rochambo said:

I throw 'em in the tub with some baby shampoo and jump in after them. Splish Splash Rubber Ducky, Splish Splash

Hahaha! Nice 

 

So I just started collecting vinyl and i have a bunch of old first print records from the 70's. I've read a few places that a damp microfiber cloth would help but certainly not solve the issue. Is there a certain solution or maybe a sub $100 cleaner that someone cane recommend for me? Maybe an amazon link? Thanks a million guys!

 

-Mike-

[ajxd]

Sub $100? Do $150 and get the squeaky clean and a shop vac. Read my recent thread. 

[Requiescat]

4 hours ago, flanagan0718 said:

Hahaha! Nice 

 

So I just started collecting vinyl and i have a bunch of old first print records from the 70's. I've read a few places that a damp microfiber cloth would help but certainly not solve the issue. Is there a certain solution or maybe a sub $100 cleaner that someone cane recommend for me? Maybe an amazon link? Thanks a million guys!

 

-Mike-

The only record cleaner below $100 is the Spin Clean (http://www.amazon.com/SPIN-CLEAN-STARTER-RECORD-WASHER-SYSTEM/dp/B002UKSZUU). That's what I would recommend (at minimum) if budget is an issue but I would also second ajxd's suggestion of spending a bit more if you can afford it for a vacuum based cleaning machine. Spin Clean works but it's considerably more manual and thus more effort involved.

 

A microfiber or lint-free cloth is what you want. DO NOT use anything that isn't lint free or you'll just contaminate the record with fibers from the cloth. A good DIY cleaning solution I'd recommend is something like this:

- A drop or two of Dawn dish soap

- A drop or two of Kodak PhotoFlo (this acts as a "surfactant. If you don't know what that is/means then Google it.)

- An ounce or so of pure isopropanol alcohol (as close to 100% as possible) NOT rubbing alcohol (very important to make that distinction)

- Distilled or deionized water NOT tap water (tap water contains contaminants and isn't "pure")

 

That mixture is a "good enough" DIY cleaning solution and all the ingredients including the Kodak PhotoFlo can be bought in bulk from sites like Amazon or any photo development place you might have locally (it's very common for photography). A single bottle of PhotoFlo will last you years because you're only using a few drops at a time per batch of cleaning solution.

 

Put that solution on the record, scrub it with a brush (nylon or goat hair), vacuum or wipe off the residue, then rinse with pure water to get any excess that may have remained on the record. Allow it to dry completely and then re-sleeve it in a NEW inner sleeve. This is very important. Re-using the old sleeve will just contaminate your freshly cleaned record again.

Hope that helps.

 

Edited May 25, 2016 by raeinn
Added Amazon link for Spin Clean

[ajxd]

don't use PhotoFlow. Use Triton X. Kodak themselves say don't use it on records. 

[Requiescat]

5 hours ago, ajxd said:

don't use PhotoFlow.  ... Kodak themselves say don't use it on records. 

Do you have a source other than forum discussions for this? I've heard this as well but I've never seen anything official from Kodak actually explicitly stating this so I'm curious. Triton X100 works also. I know PhotoFlo was part of an old Stereophile home made cleaning solution recipe at one point. I'm not sure if that's been changed since it was published originally. I'd be kind of surprised if a drop or two diluted into a larger solution would cause any noticeable damage even over time but I'd assume it's possible (I'm not a chemist). I've been using it for years and haven't noticed any problems that I would attribute to it anyway.

 

Currently the US Library of Congress recommends Tergitol 15-S-7 Surfactant (http://www.loc.gov/preservation/care/record.html):

"1. Pour 2 mL of Tergitol™ 15-S-7 Surfactant into a 4 L container (glass, stainless steel type 304 or 316, fiberglass-reinforced polyester, polyethylene, or polypropylene) and fill with deionized water, which results in a 0.05% solution."

 

The main point is you want a good surfactant in the DIY solution whatever you decide to use as it will significantly increase it's effectiveness.

Edited May 25, 2016 by raeinn

[ajxd]

Sorry, should've posted Triton X-###, as 100 or 114 have been used. I've used them interchangeably when making protein lysis buffers. X-114 is "better" due to greater solubility in water low temps, but also separates from water to forming a detergent phase at higher temps.

 

As for Kodak's notice; I posted it in this thread I believe (or one of the other 100 record cleaning threads), and even posted what chemicals were in it. As a molecular biologist, and now a metagenomic scientist, I'm a stickler for the unseen. Though I do agree, the tiny amount you are putting into your cleaner shouldn't be detrimental, I would hate to find out the hard way if it was bad.

 

For example, there's a lot of people using MagicEraser for cleaning their stylus. I read two different people who lowered their tonearm onto the pad, raised it, and noticed a tiny black dot on the pad... it was their diamond tip. Sure, 1 in 1,000,000 chance... but it can happen.

[ajxd]

I can't find the direct link, and got so mad re-reading all the Jimmeh posts (if you want some entertainment RaeInn, search the term Jimmeh on this site...). But, I did find this photo from Laura Dearborn's book.

[Requiescat]

19 hours ago, ajxd said:

As for Kodak's notice; I posted it in this thread I believe (or one of the other 100 record cleaning threads), and even posted what chemicals were in it. As a molecular biologist, and now a metagenomic scientist, I'm a stickler for the unseen. Though I do agree, the tiny amount you are putting into your cleaner shouldn't be detrimental, I would hate to find out the hard way if it was bad.

Fair enough. I'll check back in the threads and see what you posted since I'm curious. I appreciate your opinion since obviously you know more about chemicals and their interactions by your schooling than I definitely do.

 

19 hours ago, ajxd said:

For example, there's a lot of people using MagicEraser for cleaning their stylus. I read two different people who lowered their tonearm onto the pad, raised it, and noticed a tiny black dot on the pad... it was their diamond tip. Sure, 1 in 1,000,000 chance... but it can happen.

Funny because I use this method myself from time to time though typically I use a Onzow Zerodust as my primary stylus cleaning tool. Honestly though that sounds a lot more like a manufacturing defect with the stylus' bond to the cantilever than a problem simply caused by using a Magic Eraser. I guess that could be operator error also. Either way I imagine all we can do is speculate about why or how that happened. Personally speaking, I've yet to damage any stylus and I can't argue with the price point either. One box for a couple bucks will last you a life time. I guess you just have to accept the potential risk whenever you mess with your stylus. Just the nature of such a delicate instrument.