VC - Who are you voting for in the presidential election?

[kyacrash]

Amen to this. It's as much my right not to vote as it is to vote. Both sides have agendas, don't really give two shits about the country, and will piss off a large majority of people no matter how good/bad they are.

I won't ever vote unless a legit 3rd party with no agenda other than to make this country better emerges with an actual chance to win.

And fuck off to anyone on his/her high horse saying "everyone NEEDS to be educated enough" to vote.

I've been smack dab in the middle of both extreme left and right wing folks and both sides sound like elitist assholes and I would never give either side the pleasure of having my vote.

and they damn sure won't win if they don't have a political agenda

[steventangent]

pop quiz

Who has killed more people, Charles Manson or Barack Obama?

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

pop quiz

Who has killed more people, Charles Manson or Barack Obama?

Manson, Obama didnt kill anyone himself

[One Hundred Fifty-Two]

Manson, Obama didnt kill anyone himself

Wasn't Manson only tried with conspiracy of murder because he didn't commit the murders himself?

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

lol yes, my mistake, i was thinking of jeffrey dahmer haha

[yocaseycasey]

At least Romney has some fucking backbone and stands behind what he believes in even if someone else thinks it is wrong.

I find it humorous that you state Obama is a flip-flopper in your defense that Romney is the better candidate.

Good form. Crazy kids.

[yocaseycasey]

does everyone here forget when Beohner took control of the House and said that "for the next two years our goal is to make sure President Obama loses his job". you cant say "well Obama hasnt done shit in the last four years" when HALF of that time was spent with a House of Reps who killed literally everything and anything it could to make the President look bad. theres a reason why Congress' approval rating is below 10%.

Obama's first two years he managed to keep us from going into a depression and got healthcare reform passed. oh, and he signed the lillyledbetter act. so at least he got a few things done before congress became the probme.

This.

My wife's brother is in the military and hates Obama. I had a friendly conversation about politics with him the other day and brought up this issue, saying Obama can only do what the majority lets him, and he seemed incredibly caught off guard. Republicans don't realize how large a part they played behind the scenes in the stagnant years they so adamantly bitch about.

[icecream]

[kylekrische]

Whoa, there has been some mind blowing shit said in this thread. I think everyone adequately covered the backbone comment at least.

My two cents as a Canadian following the election pretty closely:

1. In terms of human rights, not so much on gay marriage, but specifically women's rights, it is such a clear choice to vote for Obama if you care about this at all. Clear enough for me that even if you didn't want to vote, this should at least be enough for you to maybe that day toss a vote for Obama. Romney's policies and personal beliefs are so TERRIFYING in this department that this would be my #1 reason to stop him if I could vote. Am I saying he's going to shatter the glass ceiling? No. But he clearly has policies that support maintaining women's healthcare and having somewhere for them to go in times of crisis and just to get up to speed on their bodies.

2. Obamacare. It absolutely blows my mind someone not supporting free healthcare for your country. Is it perfect? No, not even close. But if it wasn't for the healthcare system in Canada I would have been bankrupted long ago. I've broken my leg, been in a wheel chair, shattered my hand and destroyed a finger in the last four years and didn't pay a dime. That includes all the rehabilitation to get me back up to strength so I can continue to play drums and work my job. There are no death panels. There ARE long wait times. There are some doctors who give a shit and for every one of those there are two that hardly care. This isn't the healthcare system this is how human beings operate in our society. But goddam I'll take it 10000x over before I'd dream of living in the US and operating within your current system.

3. The general public seems to have completely unreal expectations for what the president can actually do while in office. The fact your dollar is still basically where it was a few years ago and you have any trading power in the market and jobs to go to is just short of a miracle. Canada will always have this power because we're sitting on a wealth of natural resources but the US isn't and the fact your country isn't in shambles has a lot to do with how your country was run in the last few years. This means making moves that contradict themselves (giving some corporations a break, hitting hard on others, drilling oil, implementing clean energy) but the fact of the matter is you country is somewhat stable for the first time in a long time. Again, not perfect, but this is the president. The 8% unemployment is also a fact that is blown out of proportion, Canada is in fine shape and our unemployment rate is 7.4%. 8% isn't that insanely bad. He can only do so much and yet the attitude seems to be that if Obama hasn't done anything to help you specifically, he's been a lazy man who hasn't done shit. He needed an entire term to try and correct the mistakes of the previous administration and I think he made good headway. Four years ago I couldn't wait for your country to crash so I could spend my weekends in the US reaping the benefits of our strong dollar.

4. Romney is impossible to debate because he has no qualms simply lying. Can you have a backbone when you can't consistently answer the same question twice? He has no real plans for the US other than to reverse the work Obama has done and get back to the mess the US was in 4 years ago. The pathetic part is if he wins, the US deserves him. It is so very clear Romney is running out of self-interest and self-interest alone. He wants to be president to ensure his legacy and make sure his money sticks around no matter what state the country is in. (Side note for another discussion, I think this was the main reason the Republicans elected him. I have a theory that McCain and Romney were just sacrifices. Look for the strongest Republican candidate in decades in 2016). Like many have already said, Romney looks like he uses the N word casually.

The problem is your system is so broken from the start that I can understand the apathetic nature of many of the voters. We have the same problem here, we get about 60% voter turnout at election time, which is insanely low. But we have 4 parties who could win at anytime and it makes any radical decision making (like eliminating planned parenthood, eliminating abortions, trying to reverse the right to gay marriage) nearly impossible because 2 or 3 other parties can band together and stop you in your tracks. People complain it makes our government slow and indecisive but I think we've all seen what happens when quick decisions are made in an attempt to 'save' the country.

**I realize Obama isn't this miracle man. I realize voting is simply choosing the lesser of two evils and big business will continue to throw its weight around and have decision making power. But when one man is clearly so much more evil and worse than anything that exists today, it might be enough to get me to toss a vote against him**

[Guest]

Well said, man.

It's just sad that a Canadian has a better perspective of our country than most Americans.

[harryq]

I agree with pretty much everything you said, though I'll make one edit

The pathetic part is if [Romney] wins, half of the US deserves him.

[mac1]

After your long, boring rant all I can say is try different sources for your information and stay in Canada, thankfully you cannot vote in the US. Obama is the empy chair, he is way over his head and is surrounded by a group of amateurs. We are all paying for that mistake. The portion of the press that has not been hired by this administration is still protecting him and his tap dance on the Constitution is enough to get rid of him. Nothing he has touched has improved, nor has he even tried. Time for us to move on to another option. If Mitt fails, I will help throw him out and try someone else. We need someone who wants the job, not just the benefits. At least the press will go back to work if a Republican is elected.

**I realize Obama isn't this miracle man. I realize voting is simply choosing the lesser of two evils and big business will continue to throw its weight around and have decision making power. But when one man is clearly so much more evil and worse than anything that exists today, it might be enough to get me to toss a vote against him**

[kylekrische]

Group of amateurs? Do you just mean new people? Are you saying you preferred the Bush administration then? Because if they're a group of amateurs you're implying the job was done better before in comparison which I find tough to back up in any way. You seem to think that nothing done prior to Obama had anything to do with you "paying for his mistakes" and place all the blame on him. Context is huge here and he was placed into a massive hole on track for rock bottom. The fact the country didn't hit that bottom is saying a lot.

You honestly think the Republicans, of all parties are going to straighten out the press? This has to be a joke. You're fucking with me, right? Either party will control large portions of the press, to actually believe the press magically becomes objective with the Republicans in place hurts even my head to know someone actually believes that.

Nothing he has touched has improved? You realize he came into power during the 2008 recession? So statistically, almost everything has changed as the country has made headway towards stability again. That's the meaning of a country coming out of a recession. Things changing. This is part of the unreal expectations I talked about in the initial post. No one can actually believe that any president of the United States is going to come in and tax the rich, hold corporations responsible for their actions, fight for equal rights and stop drilling and starting wars. The last administration started two wars and drove the country into the ground. I'd say it's hard to believe Obama was worse than that.

Wanting the benefits is really the only reason I can possibly come up with for Romney wanting to run for president. It is the only one that logically makes any sense. Other than him wanting to carry out on a federal level his deep inner hatred for women, the LGBT community and immigrants.

[Guest]

typicWell I have been following Obama for more than the past 6 months like you guys apparently, you might wanna know your facts besides just spouting the typical liberal rhetoric.

lol...

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

After your long, boring rant all I can say is try different sources for your information and stay in Canada, thankfully you cannot vote in the US. Obama is the empy chair, he is way over his head and is surrounded by a group of amateurs. We are all paying for that mistake. The portion of the press that has not been hired by this administration is still protecting him and his tap dance on the Constitution is enough to get rid of him. Nothing he has touched has improved, nor has he even tried. Time for us to move on to another option. If Mitt fails, I will help throw him out and try someone else. We need someone who wants the job, not just the benefits. At least the press will go back to work if a Republican is elected.

please cite examples of what he's done has made america worse. your post is EXACTLY what I was talking about. you rant about how "bad" he is, but dont bother saying ANYTHING to back it up in your rant.

[jhulud]

The only obvious choice.

[maneatingcow]

Whoa, there has been some mind blowing shit said in this thread. I think everyone adequately covered the backbone comment at least.

2. Obamacare. It absolutely blows my mind someone not supporting free healthcare for your country. Is it perfect? No, not even close. But if it wasn't for the healthcare system in Canada I would have been bankrupted long ago. I've broken my leg, been in a wheel chair, shattered my hand and destroyed a finger in the last four years and didn't pay a dime. That includes all the rehabilitation to get me back up to strength so I can continue to play drums and work my job. There are no death panels. There ARE long wait times. There are some doctors who give a shit and for every one of those there are two that hardly care. This isn't the healthcare system this is how human beings operate in our society. But goddam I'll take it 10000x over before I'd dream of living in the US and operating within your current system.

I'm not calling you out just referencing your post to give my two cents on the issue. Obamacare is actually one of the things that infuriates me about the Obama Presidency. To back up and be fair, I was a volunteer on Nader campaigns in the past, and it would take a truly special Democrat to get me to support him. Only Dem I have actually voted for in a semi major campaign is Russ Feingold.

So with that being said Obamacare doesn't change the system, yes it does make minor improvements to a flawed system. That is not something I would be willing or even able to debate, however it still leaves the system in place.

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/Publications/Fund-Reports/2010/Jun/Mirror-Mirror-Update.aspx

While a rating system for quality of healthcare is never going to be a foolproof system, this is just another of many studies where the US ranks at or near the bottom.

With Obama's changes the US still has a fundamentally flawed system. His changes won't change the terrible, terrible system. Now if and when US citizens start trying to bring up the idea of Universal Healthcare the Right is going to be able to point to studies like the one linked earlier and shout that this is what Obamacare brought us, the US has the worst healthcare coverage. granted I don't have a crystal ball, and perhaps the US will slightly crawl up the rankings, but the right doesn't have qualms about bending the truth.

My fear has been that Obamacare, will end up delaying a potential change to a Universal Healthcare System.

A bit of an aside, but this does go along with healthcare. I work at a company where the owners are big time Rightwingers. As an example when I went to the Introduction meeting the owners son was talking about how his politics fall to the "right of Ghangis Khan." Thats just a humorous aside, but recently they've been sending out messages talking about how the Obamacare is going causes dramatic changes to our Health coverage. Recently it came out that Deductables were going to almost triple and premiums are going up $40 a month for singles and more for families but I can't remember the numbers. When they started out with internal messages about the Obamacare stuff, I was expecting this. Perhaps the changes were necessary, but perhaps they are using this as a way to get people to try and hate Obamacare.

The wealthy on the right definitely try to throw their weight around and almost try to hold the country blackmail at times.

http://www.politicususa.com/audio-reveals-mitt-romney-employer-layoff-threats-obama-wins.html

Fundamentally though, Obama is a mediocre president. Romney on the otherhand has shown that he would make an atrocious President. In fact I've played around with the idea of voting for Obama on the lesser of two evils mentality but there is no possible way I can vote for someone who doesn't accurately represent my ideology. Rocky Anderson is my vote the right choice for me this year.

I typically try and stay out of internet debates about politics because I lack the ability to get my thoughts down in a marginally readable manner.

[SpinningBlackCircleofDeath]

[kylekrische]

I completely agree, it is not the solution but I think a good place to focus is on the lower income brackets that have no health care. The people from the study who just didn't see a doctor for a check up or get an MRI or an ultrasound where it could have saved their lives/prevented serious health issues. Hitting that area at least gives some results right away that will be noticed by millions.

Again though, the presidents before Obama: Bush, Clinton, Bush and Regan. Mediocre doesn't look all that terrible in comparison.

[harryq]

Fundamentally though, Obama is a mediocre president. Romney on the otherhand has shown that he would make an atrocious President. In fact I've played around with the idea of voting for Obama on the lesser of two evils mentality but there is no possible way I can vote for someone who doesn't accurately represent my ideology. Rocky Anderson is my vote the right choice for me this year.

I'd like to pose a serious question to the people who vote for third party candidates (or don't vote at all):

hypothetically, suppose your vote could decide the election. would you rather side with "the lesser of two evils" or stay true to your principles, vote for a third party candidate, and let the country elect the worse candidate?

two things:

1. obviously, no one vote is going to decide the election (best case scenario is that you'd break a tie or something), so it's better to look at this collectively over all the people who vote third party. that's probably ~3% of the vote, which could realistically decide the election
   
2. I'm clearly implying that obama is "the lesser of two evils" (not that I agree with that, but whatever), and I'm assuming that most people who vote third party are way more likely to vote democrat than republican.
   

and this isn't meant as a "you're stupid for voting third party" post, I honestly just don't understand voting third party if any part of you thinks that romney would be the worse president.

[steventangent]

It's beautiful to watch the Christian Right rationalize their support of Mitt Romney.

Hmm. Mitt Romney, admitted blasphemer OR Barack Obama,Secret Muslim. what to do, what to do??

[icecream]

where did you get those !!!

[Dillhole]

That is seriously the most intelligent thing posted in this debacle of a thread.

[BBech]

Explain to my how Romney is terrible for women's rights. He isn't banning birth control. But he says he's not going to hand out things for free which is why we are in the mess we are in. To many handouts across the board which is a problem this country has had since FDR.

And all Romney has said on abortion is he only supports it in rare instances. Never said he should ban it.

[selfreliable]

lol...

Funny because I dont have cable, never been to the fox website for news, and dont even support Romney or any republican. Liberals and the right are just as bad as the other side.