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Terrible Traders/Buyers/Sellers


benchwarmer
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I thought that the package is the seller's responsibility until it is delivered and that insurance is there to minimize the seller's risk when shipping, not the buyer's. Is there a set of 'rough streets' VC rules that puts all risk on the buyer (gift payment, no tracking, insurance is buyer's choice/gamble)?

 

If its not delivered, how is that MY fault? Its a simple question to ask. Once you drop it off at the post office, how is it in your control? Thats why I dont get all the bitching about shipping people do on here. As a buyer, you are always at risk. 

 

I say that as an independent seller with 1 copy of a record that one cant just replace, like a company could.

 

my VC rules.

If I know you - pay how you want.

If you're international and I know you (see above) if not - pay as gift, request tracking (YOU MUST ASK)

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It just feels like there is a simpler, more fair way of going about things. Offer only tracked, insured shipping internationally and you'd never have to guess whether a buyer is lying about not receiving a package and, if the package is lost, you can make a claim and refund the buyer- just like you'd appreciate being refunded if a package you bought never made it to your door. If the buyer doesn't want to pay that more secure shipping cost, they can go buy elsewhere.

You can also say stuff like "Hey dude, let's go with tracked and insured shipping. It'll protect us both and help us avoid any issues." It's not reductive to your spirit to take 40 seconds to help another dude avoid entering a risky transaction, even if they seem green or less knowledgable about how this stuff works.

Asking for gift payment to circumvent PayPal's buyer protection and then telling the buyer that the shipping risk (including requesting insurance) is entirely his/her responsibility feels pre-emptively evasive, like something you'd hear at a seminar taught by the pick-up artist Mystery's cousin Splatter who focuses on the art of picking up on online vinyl buyers. The "Dog eat dog," "He/she should have known better," and "He/she learned a lesson" responses seem more like rationalizations you'd hear from a guy on the street operating out of an unmarked van and his bros than what you'd hear from a thoughtful dude selling records to other folks on a vinyl forum.

I feel like I have made some 'e-friends' here and would be considered generally well-liked but, if I ended up in the middle of a transaction or two where I got a buyer to pay as a gift, didn't make insurance mandatory (to at least give them some protection), and the deal went sour, I would hope posters would call me out on where I could have been a better buying/selling partner and avoided the issue than to say "Hey, we like bake. Go kick rocks" to the buyer.

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Write your drunk reply in a text file and then post both drunk & sober replies tomorrow.  :)

 

BTW, I don't agree with you or this transaction being posted here in the Terrible Sellers thread.  This wasn't a Terrible Seller transaction at all.  More of an "Indifferent Seller Who Let Me Be Dumb" situation.  I'm just intrigued by the grey area of not distinctly pointing out that the buyer has voluntarily given away ALL their protection in the transaction via the Gift method until after S hits the F.  I would be pretty anxious if I handed off a non-tracked, non-insured record to the post office and knew there was a fair chance that I'd have to deal with a bummed out (or worse) buyer.  A lot of my morality and ethics is channeled from a deep aversion to conflict.  B)

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I thought that the package is the seller's responsibility until it is delivered and that insurance is there to minimize the seller's risk when shipping, not the buyer's. Is there a set of 'rough streets' VC rules that puts all risk on the buyer (gift payment, no tracking, insurance is buyer's choice/gamble)?

 

Caveat Emptor (buyer beware) as far as I know applies everywhere in the real world except the strangely twisted world of ebay.

 

That said people do need protecting from themselves every now and then so when I send something expensive and especially if it's overseas I insist the buyer takes out tracking and insurance as it protects us both.

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Sorry if it came out as if i was taking it all on you Satan, he isn't a terrible trader, just bad communication between us both, i was pissed off at the time of our messages today, also that i had messaged a couple times and you hadn't replied when i said it still hadn't arrived. So of course i was concerned that i felt like i had been scammed, as you were pretty keen to me to send the money through quick, It was my first purchase off here and for it to go wrong i was annoyed.

If you were so concerned about being ripped off and you thought about the cost of the item, you could of been the one to inform me of insurance option, as i could have paid for it as you stated today "For paying that amount you shouldve known better to request tracking/proof of delivery". I dnt know how the US postal system works.

Now you know. If you buy anything that has to travel over water from a distant land, take the option to track it. If its expensive, insure it.

Actually, you should take the tracking option on every single thing you buy. If you don't know these things, then use the internet, and find out.

Also, for future reference, if you're dealing w a VC member w as high a post count and feedback as Satan has, ask ANY and ALL questions you might have. When I first joined VC, a very highly respected member asked me to send him an album that he knew was available to me, which wasn't expensive. I used it as an opportunity to properly get my "foot in the door" here, on VC. The box arrived dinged up, but luckily, the actual record was fine. He was ok with it, as he knew it was the fault of the post office, and as he also knew that I had sent out the same record to another member, an hour south of him, which arrived fine. In both cases, tracking was purchased, w no insurance (inexpensive)

Always purchase tracking, at the very least, if you have the option to do so. Lesson learned? I hope so.

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I would have done exactly what Satan did. I refuse to ship international unless payment is gifted. I've been boned so many times going the other direction that I think it would be dumb on any of our parts to ship internationally without gifted payment.

Having said that, gazzabr, you should immediately delete your posts. Tony is a good dude and would never intentionally fuck someone over. At least remove his email address.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Heads up, do not sell to michaeljosephamato on Ebay. He bought a record off me, it was delivered about an hour ago and he already sent me a return request with this message:

 

"Hello, I received the record today, but it is defective. Upon playing side A, track 6 skips for a few seconds. Side B of the record is warped, and the songs sound very distorted."

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it impossible for only one side of a record to be warped? That doesn't make much sense...It's very obvious this guy is bullshitting me considering I've played the record probably ten times with zero issues and I packed it like a tank like I do with everything I sell. Just save yourself the headache and block him now.

 

I'm guessing I'm going to have to bite the bullet and have him send me the item back and refund him to avoid a negative feedback? This is the first time this has happened to me on Ebay. I just hope he doesn't deliberately damage it and send it back, then I won't be able to resell it.

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^ You've made about 4-5 leaps and assumptions based off one vague eBay message.  I would slow your mind down and let the situation present itself more clearly.

 

Start with the assumption that the buyer is being honest and that he quickly messaged you because he wants to get this resolved quickly.

 

Email them back and apologize for the condition it arrived in and assure them that you'll resolve it fairly.  Then, ask them to send you a few clear photos of both sides of the record, the box it arrived in, and a sound recording of the skips.  If you accuse them of lying, it is going to be much harder to get info from them.  If you empathize with them and let them know you need the info to help them with their return or refund, they'll be more likely to send the photos and sound clip.

 

If you are nice and sympathetic to their problem and they refuse to provide you with that info or they give you a weird, sketchy blurry photo or change their story...then maybe you can start with the red flag hunt.  

 

But let's hope that they are being honest and that they send you the photos, etc....

 

If it doesn't look too warped, you can help them troubleshoot their turntable setup or just give them a return.  If you're right about having the magic ability to 100% guarantee that no record you send can ever get warped or damaged in transit ( :P ), then you'll receive a perfect copy back that you can re-sell.

 

If it's warped and busted, then something happened to it.  Either it was damaged in transit or the seller damaged it within an hour for some unknown reason.  It would be up to you whether those $25 are worth investigating this guy and making sure he is 100% being honest or whether your time and continuing to live your life and maintain good feedback is worth more.  

 

Packages do get damaged.

 

The other alternative, which some VC folks might suggest, is to wash your hands of this entirely and tell them "TOO BAD SO SAD" and then let eBay rule on it.  If eBay rules in their favor, you can come up with an eBay pun like evilBay and rage against the machine for the rest of your days.  :)

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^ You've made about 4-5 leaps and assumptions based off one vague eBay message.  I would slow your mind down and let the situation present itself more clearly.

 

Start with the assumption that the buyer is being honest and that he quickly messaged you because he wants to get this resolved quickly.

 

Email them back and apologize for the condition it arrived in and assure them that you'll resolve it fairly.  Then, ask them to send you a few clear photos of both sides of the record, the box it arrived in, and a sound recording of the skips.  If you accuse them of lying, it is going to be much harder to get info from them.  If you empathize with them and let them know you need the info to help them with their return or refund, they'll be more likely to send the photos and sound clip.

 

If you are nice and sympathetic to their problem and they refuse to provide you with that info or they give you a weird, sketchy blurry photo or change their story...then maybe you can start with the red flag hunt.  

 

But let's hope that they are being honest and that they send you the photos, etc....

 

If it doesn't look too warped, you can help them troubleshoot their turntable setup or just give them a return.  If you're right about having the magic ability to 100% guarantee that no record you send can ever get warped or damaged in transit ( :P ), then you'll receive a perfect copy back that you can re-sell.

 

If it's warped and busted, then something happened to it.  Either it was damaged in transit or the seller damaged it within an hour for some unknown reason.  It would be up to you whether those $25 are worth investigating this guy and making sure he is 100% being honest or whether your time and continuing to live your life and maintain good feedback is worth more.  

 

Packages do get damaged.

 

The other alternative, which some VC folks might suggest, is to wash your hands of this entirely and tell them "TOO BAD SO SAD" and then let eBay rule on it.  If eBay rules in their favor, you can come up with an eBay pun like evilBay and rage against the machine for the rest of your days.  :)

 

Thanks for the response. I've already messaged him and apologized. I'll request that extra info from him. I understand what you're saying, but it just strikes me as odd that a record that played perfectly when I sent it all of a sudden skips and is distorted?

 

I'm not saying its impossible for it to have been damaged, but its very unlikely because it was packaged in a record mailer in between two cardboard inserts and taped up with bubble wrap around it. There's also the fact that he didn't say anything about the package being damaged...just that the record is defective or whatever.

It could absolutely be his turntable, but if that's the case then what am I as a seller supposed to do about that?

 

To me it looks like EBay sellers always get the short end of the stick, either way I'm going to lose out on $40. If I don't refund him he'll just open a claim and I pretty much have no chance of winning because I can't prove that the record doesn't skip etc. if he has it.

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If it's damaged, it's damaged.  You lose on that one since eBay holds sellers liable for the package condition while in transit.  Might be worth the extra $2-3 to insure packages over $30-40 in the future.

 

If he's lying, there is always the chance that your inquiries scare him off and he keeps the record and leaves you alone.

 

If he's just a dummy, there is the chance that the record is fine and he's just doing it wrong.

 

If you want to keep the most hope alive of not losing your $$$, I'd pray for possibilities #2 or #3.  Everything else points to you losing $50 and your option is just whether you want to go crazy on this dude or act like a corporate stiff and play nice to lower the chances of bad feedback.

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Having paid for a couple records (PayPal cleared), how long do you think is an appropriate time to wait for someone to respond to your multiple requests for confirmation--or any communication whatsoever--before you lose your shit? I'm trying to be patient, but the dude has very little board feedback, and I'm concerned he's either ripping me off, or just doesn't give a damn. How long and how many PMs and emails before you are legitimately pissed? (And ... Forgive me if I interrupted the thread.)

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  it gonna sound bad, but the dude might just have a not so great record player and that's what's doing it

 

Yeah, he sent me this video of the skipping and it looks like he has a cheap turntable. He said "side b" was warped.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdsSfOU1Wfo&feature=youtu.be

 

He also sent me some photos and they were small and blurry, so I asked him to send better ones and he did but they're still pretty small. Not sure what I should do at this point.

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Yeah, he sent me this video of the skipping and it looks like he has a cheap turntable. He said "side b" was warped.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdsSfOU1Wfo&feature=youtu.be

 

He also sent me some photos and they were small and blurry, so I asked him to send better ones and he did but they're still pretty small. Not sure what I should do at this point.

a while back i had a shitty player like that, and the exact same record did the exact same thing on the exact same song. i got a better one and it stopped. it's absolutely not the album, it's his record player

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a while back i had a shitty player like that, and the exact same record did the exact same thing on the exact same song. i got a better one and it stopped. it's absolutely not the album, it's his record player

Yup. Probably a tiny bit of gunk in the groove that his needle can't track over because he can't adjust tone arm pressure.

Tell him to look closely at the area of the grooves that skip under bright overhead lighting and see if he can find a speck that needs to be removed. I actually had a pretty large chunk of something on a record the other day that I had to remove that wouldn't come off after 5 vacuum cleans.

My TT isn't even all that shitty.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hey all!

My girlfriend bought me Turnstile's Nonstop Feeling for like $30, double what the original buyer purchased it for.

I received it today, and it was completely warped, along with the cover being split. He shipped it between two flimsy piece of cardboard, wrapped in brown paper. Written on the package was 'Do Not Bend' - as if it would make much of a difference. As somebody who makes my own mailers, I'm disgusted with this.

Watch out for JurrySnow on eBay, or at least tell him to pack your purchases properly.

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