bearchuck Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 My new hot-rodded DIY turntable built upon the foundation of AR XA's legendary suspended sub-chassis design and this sweet-as-balls Grace 704 tonearm ... isavedlatin54 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajxd Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 Nice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluedeni Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 Very nice! Can't wait to see the rest, always liked the AR XA, especially some of the sweet modded ones people do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cymbalism15 Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 Take process pictures? I'd be interested for sure, what made you decide to DIY? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearchuck Posted December 3, 2012 Author Share Posted December 3, 2012 Sorry, kids ... I kinda of let this fall to the wayside, but there's been some significant progress on my new table. I'll post a photo soon! I should clarify one thing - I'm really not doing any of the rebuild myself. It's a guy in NJ named Steve Frosten who is working on it. He has toiled away on hundreds of ARs since the early 80s and he's definitely one of the most respected people when it comes to these XA mods. I'm really stoked to be working with him ... and when I say "working" I truly mean that he's the expert tackling all the hard stuff; I just provided the tonearm, top plate, sub chassis and some general directions. As to why I'm going DIY, it's mostly because I like the idea of creating something unique. That, and I know from experience that the AR-XA is a great platform for modification and the end results will most likely rival any new, high-end turntable I could buy. Well, at least anything in the $1000 - $1500 range. Originally my idea was to upgrade the tonearm on my current AR-XA, which is in stock form but with plenty of tweaks and modifications of its own. So when I finally stumbled across the Grace 704 - of which I had always been enamored - I was pretty excited about the possibilities and was ready to go through with the tonearm switch. At the end of the day though, I just really love my current AR-XA and I didn't want to hack into it. After talking to Steve a few times, we came up with the idea of building a brand new one from the ground up. It's going to have lots of little improvements: a sturdier plinth via a rigid bottom plate, an improved motor, copolymer pully, rca jacks in the back for nicer cables, upgraded springs and perches, and of course, damping wherever it needs it. And then obviously, the Grace 704, which is just a superb tonearm that should raise everything to an entirely different level. The nice thing about the AR-XA is that there are about a million of them out there and cheap parts are very easy to find. Of course, having worked on them for so long, Steve has plenty of spare parts of his own, and I just happened to have an extra top plate and sub chassis too. All in all, this shouldn't break the bank ... although the tonearm was certainly not cheap by any means. It's unquestionabley the nicest piece of audio equipment I've ever bought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluedeni Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 I really liked what this guy did http://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=34945 Can't wait to see how yours turns out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearchuck Posted December 3, 2012 Author Share Posted December 3, 2012 I really liked what this guy did http://www.vinylengi...hp?f=34&t=34945 Can't wait to see how yours turns out Oh yeah, I've seen that one before. It's absolutely gorgeous. That guy was actually selling that table on Audiogon last month. I thought it was a little overpriced, but there's no doubt that he poured a ton of time, money and effort into upgrading it. If you want to see some of Steve Frosten's rebuilds, he's got a bunch of them posted in this very cool thread: http://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=14435 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluedeni Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Wow he does some nice work and there are some nice AR's in that thread. I have always liked the look of an AR, simple and classic. I also like the idea of the internal suspension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cymbalism15 Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Oh yeah, I've seen that one before. It's absolutely gorgeous. That guy was actually selling that table on Audiogon last month. I thought it was a little overpriced, but there's no doubt that he poured a ton of time, money and effort into upgrading it. If you want to see some of Steve Frosten's rebuilds, he's got a bunch of them posted in this very cool thread: http://www.vinylengi...hp?f=34&t=14435 So nice, I wish I had the knowledge to mod my own table Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearchuck Posted December 3, 2012 Author Share Posted December 3, 2012 Here's what it looks like so far. Obviously the tonearm hasn't been mounted yet ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hipsterasfolk Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 $$$$ it is almost as beautiful as you Chuck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearchuck Posted December 6, 2012 Author Share Posted December 6, 2012 Uh oh ... oohdoiloveyou 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluedeni Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 What did he use for damping? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearchuck Posted December 6, 2012 Author Share Posted December 6, 2012 What did he use for damping? The sub-chassis and arm board are dampened with a rubber compound and the outer platter has a layer of plastic adhered to it, which helps deaden any unwanted resonance. Of course, the Grace 704 tonearm is a unipivot that's dampened with really heavy silicone fluid, so there's that as well. I don't have the table yet, so it will be a little while before I can form any real opinions. There are plenty of folks out there who contend that you can over-dampen these AR-XAs, and doing so can rob them of their inherent charm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluedeni Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Yeah I have seen some heavily modded ARs that were dampened to hell and back. Which is really overboard. Sounds like it is going to be one sweet table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearchuck Posted December 6, 2012 Author Share Posted December 6, 2012 My current AR-XA is pretty well-dampened, but I've always thought it sounded very open and airy. It's hard for me to make a comparison though because I've never actually listened to a completely original stock XA. However, I will be able to pit my new XA against my old one, so that will be cool. Of course, that Grace tonearm makes the fight a little unfair ... or at least it should. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluedeni Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 That is a sweet tonearm. I also like the Jelcos especially the SA-750D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearchuck Posted March 1, 2013 Author Share Posted March 1, 2013 I'm so bad at following up with these things, but I've had the AR-XA / Grace G-704 combo for a little over two months and I figured I'd post a few pictures and toss out some observations. I've really thrown myself into this table ... tuning the suspension, swapping out the stock feet for spikes, switching carts, tweaking alignments and VTA and of course learning / experimenting with this unique unipivot tonearm. It's been really fun and I feel like I've given myself an intense self-education that should pay off in the long run. However, I've been crazy busy with personal shit (trying to fix up / sell our house) and work, so I feel like I really haven't had much time to simply sit down and enjoy the turntable. Of course I've spun plenty of records, but it's always been rushed ... and I certainly haven't done any comparisons against my other turntables. Regardless, everything sounds great and I'm really happy with the direction I took. Building a turntable from the ground up was really enjoyable, and I think in the future I can take this thing even further. I'm sure I'll be posting more thoughts ... as soon as things calm down a bit in my life. Until then, enjoy the eye candy! cbbrew22, ajxd, bluedeni and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluedeni Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Nice! That is one sweet piece of equipment. How do you like the cork mat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaizada Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Now that looks like a sweet setup. Good job chap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearchuck Posted March 4, 2013 Author Share Posted March 4, 2013 Nice! That is one sweet piece of equipment. How do you like the cork mat? The cork is nice. It actually has hard plastic underneath that's adhered to the platter in order to deaden it a bit. Since I have another AR XA, I've actually switched the platters to compare. The other one has dynamat (or something like that) underneath and I'm using a Herbie's Way Excellent mat with a Mitchell clamp. I didn't notice too much of a difference, but then again, I didn't sit there for hours comparing the two. One of these days I'll throw a plain old felt mat into the equation and see how that differs. If I had to guess, the sound will probably be a little less focused. The Herbie's and cork mat - coupled with a clamp / weight - have a tendency to tighten things up ... more detail, blacker background and whatnot. Now that looks like a sweet setup. Good job chap! Thanks! I still have a ways to go, but I'm having a blast right now. Once we move into a new house, the turntable is definitely going on a wall shelf, which is going to make a big difference. Right now we have old, slant-y wooden floors and footfalls are a big problem. I'd anchor the expedit shelf to the wall but I don't want to drill any holes in it now that the house is on the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaizada Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 The cork is nice. It actually has hard plastic underneath that's adhered to the platter in order to deaden it a bit. Since I have another AR XA, I've actually switched the platters to compare. The other one has dynamat (or something like that) underneath and I'm using a Herbie's Way Excellent mat with a Mitchell clamp. I didn't notice too much of a difference, but then again, I didn't sit there for hours comparing the two. One of these days I'll throw a plain old felt mat into the equation and see how that differs. If I had to guess, the sound will probably be a little less focused. The Herbie's and cork mat - coupled with a clamp / weight - have a tendency to tighten things up ... more detail, blacker background and whatnot. Thanks! I still have a ways to go, but I'm having a blast right now. Once we move into a new house, the turntable is definitely going on a wall shelf, which is going to make a big difference. Right now we have old, slant-y wooden floors and footfalls are a big problem. I'd anchor the expedit shelf to the wall but I don't want to drill any holes in it now that the house is on the market. Experimenting is the best way to learn most of the time. Be sure to account for VTA / VTF changes when you play around with mats so you can really understand what the mat adds / takes away from the listening experience. I have like 4 difference record clamps as each changes the sound in some way...this stuff is crazy! Wall mounting is one of the best ways to go for a turntable. Mine is really big and heavy, so I use the VPI stand with appropriate isolation techniques. I too am on a suspended floor so I know how annoying it can be. Luckily my isolation works well and I never have footfall issues with the table, but I'd love to wall mount it. Can't do it in the corner I have the table located the way it sits and the furniture around it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearchuck Posted March 5, 2013 Author Share Posted March 5, 2013 Oh, believe me - there has been plenty of experimenting with VTA / VTF. I can't adjust either on the fly, but the Grace arm does allow for pretty easy VTA adjustment in general. The only real quibble I have is azimuth adjustment. There's a lateral weight where I can play around with that, but for some reason I can't get the arm perfectly level, even with the weight moved all the way to the left. I had to add some mass myself, which is why if you look at those photos, you'll see a bit of blue-tak surrounding the weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaizada Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Oh, believe me - there has been plenty of experimenting with VTA / VTF. I can't adjust either on the fly, but the Grace arm does allow for pretty easy VTA adjustment in general. The only real quibble I have is azimuth adjustment. There's a lateral weight where I can play around with that, but for some reason I can't get the arm perfectly level, even with the weight moved all the way to the left. I had to add some mass myself, which is why if you look at those photos, you'll see a bit of blue-tak surrounding the weight. I strongly urge you to try to come to another resolution and figure out what the problem with the azimuth really is. Sticking on blue tak definitely adds another material / resonance to the arm which will mess with the sound AND the original acoustic mindset of the arm designer. Maybe you can get a heavier weight or something...I don't know, but definitely give it some thought. I see you are way more handy than I am so I'm sure you'll figure out a good solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearchuck Posted March 5, 2013 Author Share Posted March 5, 2013 The lateral weight / azimuth thing is driving me nuts but I just can't figure it out or find any other Grace 704 owners who have had the same issue. The platter is level, the top plate is level, I've played around with the damping fluid and mechanically speaking, the arm seems to be in tip-top shape. The only thing I can figure is that modifications to the subchassis were slightly off. If I look at the armboard, it appears to be sloped to the right just a tad. Again, the platter is perfectly level, but if the tonearm base isn't, it would mean that I'd have to push the lateral weight all the way to the left to compensate. I'll have to look at the t-bar again. Maybe I can adjust it somehow. In the meantime, the blue-tak is working well enough. It's not resonant at all, and it really only adds another once or two of mass. It's better than the alternative of having that azimuth out of wack. There is a guy on eBay who makes custom brass weights for Grace tonearms. It's relatively cheap too. Been thinking about touching base with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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