tankerdesk Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Installed and aligned yesterday, really happy with this thing, such an improvement over the stock cart that came with my debut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckpig Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Humm. I was thinking about upgrading mine as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hipsterasfolk Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Nice, been eyeing this and the platter for quite some time. 2013 might be the year I fire the trigger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asilaydying36 Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Nice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearchuck Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Nice, been eyeing this and the platter for quite some time. 2013 might be the year I fire the trigger Hey Jordan - I'm not saying that you shouldn't eventually upgrade the platter, but I think you'll notice a much more of a sonic improvement with a new, better cartridge. If it were me, I'd think long and hard about combining my platter money with my cartridge money and buying something even nicer than the Ortofon Blue ... which is a nice cart, don't get me wrong. Of course, those acrylic platters look pretty sweet. I don't know - I'm the type of guy that can never stop upgrading, so I'd do it all, but I do think that the cartridge will be a bigger jump in sound quality for you. What pre-amp are you using now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannibal Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 I wouldn't suggest that anyone spend more than $200 on a cartridge upgrade for the Debut III. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajxd Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 I wouldn't suggest that anyone spend more than $200 on a cartridge upgrade for the Debut III. This. I got the Blue because if I was going to spend anymore on my turntable, it'd be upgrading to a better table all together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannibal Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 exactly. I'm not putting anything down, and I definitely recommend upgrading the catridge on the Debut III. It's simply my opinion that a cartridge in this price range is going to give you all that the Debut III can provide. Anything more and it's going to waste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tankerdesk Posted January 3, 2013 Author Share Posted January 3, 2013 I actually agree with this too. Here's why I did it anyway. I got this as an xmas gift and I plan to upgrade my table soonish down the road. So I figured there was a pretty good chance I'd take the cartridge with me, if that doesn't happen right away, no loss on my part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearchuck Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Thanks kannibal and ajxd. I really have no experience with the Debut III. I'm a little shocked that you guys don't think it could benefit from anything more than a $200 cartridge. Why would you say that exactly? Is it something to do with the arm mechanics or bearings? Jordan - didn't you get the Carbon too? I do tend to think that the acrylic platter upgrades are slightly overrated ... although like I said, I definitely have a case of upgrade-itus, which means I'd probably do it eventually. Back to my original point, you guys don't think that a decent MC cart would outperform the Ortofon Blue on that table? Something like the Denon DL-301 MKII or Audio Technica OC9 ML/II, both of which can be purchased in the $300 - $400 range and should be a good match for medium-to-low-mass arms? That's actually why I asked about the pre-amp, just in case it had MC capabilities. Definitely not starting an argument here - it's just blowing my mind a little bit that the Pro-Ject Debut hits the ceiling with the Ortofon Blue. Especially if we're talking about the Carbon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajxd Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Its not so much a matter of hitting a ceiling, but more of a cartridge out performing the table. The Carbon is entry level. Take away the cartridge and its $300 worth of parts/technology. There are a lot of good parts to the Carbon, but on the big picture, its still an entry level table. If you're going to dropp $300+ on the cartridge, get a table that has more accessibility for sound. I think the 2M Blue is a great entry level cartridge. Very versatile. But I believe in equipment harmony. On personal experience, I heard a 2M Black on a not so great vintage table. I asked the guy why he invested $700 on such a low end table. He replied "Just listen! That's why!" . All I could hear cheap motor hum, wow/flutter noise, alunimum tonearm resonance, all picked up at an extreme level. Sounded awful. There has to be a balance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearchuck Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Its not so much a matter of hitting a ceiling, but more of a cartridge out performing the table. The Carbon is entry level. Take away the cartridge and its $300 worth of parts/technology. There are a lot of good parts to the Carbon, but on the big picture, its still an entry level table. If you're going to dropp $300+ on the cartridge, get a table that has more accessibility for sound. I think the 2M Blue is a great entry level cartridge. Very versatile. But I believe in equipment harmony. On personal experience, I heard a 2M Black on a not so great vintage table. I asked the guy why he invested $700 on such a low end table. He replied "Just listen! That's why!" . All I could hear cheap motor hum, wow/flutter noise, alunimum tonearm resonance, all picked up at an extreme level. Sounded awful. There has to be a balance. Yeah, I totally agree that in certain cases, it's just silly to invest in a cartridge that far outperforms the turntable. I guess I was under the impression that you'd be able to squeeze a little more out of the Debut Carbon. Like I said, I really have no personal experience with any Pro-Ject tables, so what do I know? Definitely interesting to learn that though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajxd Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Chuck you ignorant slut. rochambo and BigSeth 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearchuck Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Ignorant and slutty ... that describes me to a T! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cymbalism15 Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Did not know that about the Carbon, informative thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbrh2001 Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 I plan on owning my Carbon for a long time. For this reason, Im glad to know the Blue is the best route to go (saves me money, haha). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearchuck Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 I plan on owning my Carbon for a long time. For this reason, Im glad to know the Blue is the best route to go (saves me money, haha). Well, there could be another $150 - $200 cart that you might like better. I'm a big fan of Grados, but their moving iron design makes them susceptible to hum. Just depends on the table, and I'm not sure how they'd react to the Debut Carbon. Google it. The Denon DL-110 is a great high output moving coil cartridge that would be worth considering as well. Also, while I certainly respect and value ajxd and kannibal's opinions - and I'm inclined to agree with them - I'm quite sure that you could find other knowledgeable people would argue the opposite. Maybe the question isn't whether or not the Carbon would benefit from a better cartridge, but rather how much would it benefit, and is it even worth it? Let's not forget that a lot of this postulating is dependent the rest of the components in your system. It's the old "weakest link in the chain" idiom. If the Carbon is that weak link, then yes - it's probably not a good idea to attempt to upgrade anything else before moving up the ladder to a new turntable. If the Carbon / Ortofon are the strong points of your system, then think about upgrading the preamp / amplifier / speakers. This is why a lot of people (including me) will tell kids to make the turntable the foundation of your set up. If you have something solid as your anchor, it's easier to upgrade around it. Conversely, if you're starting with a crappy turntable, buying a nice preamp, cartridge, etc etc really isn't going to make it sound any better. I mean, it will sound slightly better, but more than likely it will highlight your turntable's weak points even more than before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannibal Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Yeah, I totally agree that in certain cases, it's just silly to invest in a cartridge that far outperforms the turntable. I guess I was under the impression that you'd be able to squeeze a little more out of the Debut Carbon. Like I said, I really have no personal experience with any Pro-Ject tables, so what do I know? Definitely interesting to learn that though. Of course it's all subjective. When I had a debut, I put a dl-160 and an acrylic platter on it and it sounded very good. Could a better cartridge have made a noticeable difference? I will never know, but when I put the Denon on my Classic, the Denon sounded a lot better than it did on the Debut. Unfortunately, for a lot of us we'll never have the opportunity to test different components on our system before we buy, so we can only give general advice. But, that's all it is general advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluedeni Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 I prefer the Denon DL-110 over the blue. I always had a hum problem with Grado's and had to use dynomat to help get rid of the hum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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