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Anybody in this neck of the woods go to law school?


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I'm just finishing up my junior year of undergrad for my political science degree, which means I'll be taking the LSAT this summer. I've been getting pretty worried lately about making sure that I get into a law school that will give me the best possibility of a job post-graduation. So, this leads me to survey VC to see if anybody else has been through this process. Anybody?

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I have not but I did read an article on yahoo recently about how people graduating from low tier law schools lately are really having trouble finding work and some of them are taking jobs in the 40s and 50s (which is not what you would expect from lawyers at all and really doesn't justify the cost of the extra schooling).

 

I've posted this in a couple threads but I really believe it -- the two fields where the name of the school on the degree mean the most as far as helping your future career are business and law. Artists make their own way. Chemistry is the same chemistry wherever you go. A high-level law degree just punches your ticket to a good career.

 

Good luck with it!

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One of my best friends got his law degree from Temple. He hates being a lawyer. So there's that.

 

I helped him set up a site here http://rebelswithoutaclause.com/ which is mainly a blog but he's trying to figure out to do a kind of guerilla lawyering type thing if you want to check it out.

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You may get a job. You may not. The site director for the campus of my college has a law degree. Doesn't make what I'd expect. Also I have a friend who also has a law degree. He works as a fund raiser for a non-profit. Both are not jobs that require law degrees. Its a roll of the dice and a lot of student debt. Do some SERIOUS research before you jump in.

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my uncle was a lawyer but he wasn't conventional and the his lax attitude in the courtroom didn't go over well with the judges.

was he a good lawyer? YES.

he won 90% of his cases in 5 years.

is he a lawyer now? NO.

reason being - "it just wasn't fucking worth it anymore."

he's now a VP at some bank in NYC making a fuckin killing.

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As someone who just graduated from law school last May I think I can provide some assistance...

 

If you want the best possibility of a job, figure out what type of job you'd be happy with first -- and think about whether that requires a J.D. or not. If that job is being a lawyer and practicing law then you really have no choice but to go. If it's a job that doesn't require a J.D. be careful about pursuing a law degree/bar membership only to then pursue such job -- as they may think you're just there as a temporary gig due to the downfall in jobs/etc (assuming the down economy remains in 3-4 years). You're better served finding an internship aligned with what you want to do in your senior year and parlaying that into a job (hopefully) after graduation, if a J.D. is not required.

 

Another thing to consider, if being a lawyer is what you really want to do, is what school to choose. I personally had no aspirations to join a large firm in a big city, so I took a full scholarship at a lower tier school instead of going to a better school and paying $30k+ a year. If "biglaw" is what you want to do, it probably justifies going to the best school you can and being in the top of your class. 

 

Obviously there's other uses of the J.D. than just practicing law (especially if you don't want to take the Bar, which is a whole other animal than law school), some of which may set you up to get a job over others -- but it all goes back to planning out what your career aspirations are, where you would be ok/willing to work, and how much debt you're willing to incur to do so. 

 

If you have any LSAT or law school specific questions feel free to reply/message me -- figured you were just looking for some general guidance here.

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As someone who just graduated from law school last May I think I can provide some assistance...

 

If you want the best possibility of a job, figure out what type of job you'd be happy with first -- and think about whether that requires a J.D. or not. If that job is being a lawyer and practicing law then you really have no choice but to go. If it's a job that doesn't require a J.D. be careful about pursuing a law degree/bar membership only to then pursue such job -- as they may think you're just there as a temporary gig due to the downfall in jobs/etc (assuming the down economy remains in 3-4 years). You're better served finding an internship aligned with what you want to do in your senior year and parlaying that into a job (hopefully) after graduation, if a J.D. is not required.

 

Another thing to consider, if being a lawyer is what you really want to do, is what school to choose. I personally had no aspirations to join a large firm in a big city, so I took a full scholarship at a lower tier school instead of going to a better school and paying $30k+ a year. If "biglaw" is what you want to do, it probably justifies going to the best school you can and being in the top of your class. 

 

Obviously there's other uses of the J.D. than just practicing law (especially if you don't want to take the Bar, which is a whole other animal than law school), some of which may set you up to get a job over others -- but it all goes back to planning out what your career aspirations are, where you would be ok/willing to work, and how much debt you're willing to incur to do so. 

 

If you have any LSAT or law school specific questions feel free to reply/message me -- figured you were just looking for some general guidance here.

 

I'm sure your advice will go much farther than mine (being a lawyer and all) but my advice overlooked the whole "top school and pay or lower school on a full ride" dilemma. Had that call with my undergrad and it's tough.

 

I was more saying "if you get accepted into both a top and a mid or a mid and a lower (but have to pay for both), don't cheap out". At least that is what I have heard...

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my husband went to law school at USC and is currently practicing labor and employment law.  he didn't go until about 4 yrs after he graduated college, working in HR in between that.  he's been practicing law for 10 years now.  he's not in any serious debt since he had money saved up from working and got a grant and he likes his job...  most of the time.

 

i that i think it really matters what school you go to in most cases.  it also matters how well you do.  if he'd made it in to the top percentile of his class (didn't happen because dating me was a bit of a distraction...), he'd probably have gotten a job at one of the big law firms and could be making more than he does now.  as it is, it's probably for the better.  i don't have to work, we live comfortably in a nice area and he's home by 7pm the majority of the time so he can spend time with me and our kid.  sometimes i think it'd be nice to have a bigger place or more money for home improvements or traveling but i really do prefer having our family time.  i can't even imagine how much more stressful a big time firm would be for him also.

despite not placing in the top percentile (i'm serious that's one of the first questions all the interviewers at the big firms would ask him), he still did pretty well, passed the bar the first time and networked with USC alumni so he landed a job at a smaller place (about 100 attorneys) pretty easily.  his roommate, on the other hand, totally blew off studying and did pretty poorly.  she spent a lot of her time working at victoria secret and excelling at signing people up for the angels card, haha...  i don't even think she took or passed the bar and she now uses her JD to recruit jobs for various firms.

 

with what i've heard about how hard it is to find a job these days after law school, i'm not sure if it's the same anymore, but some communities like san diego will have a bunch of low tier law schools but they somehow love to hire people who went to school locally so over there, where you go to school isn't/wasn't really as important as being a local and, i would think, doing well academically.  so there's that.

 

i don't think my husband knew at the time of his applying to law school where he wanted to live and establish his career so he picked the best school that he got accepted to out of the ones he applied to.

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my husband went to law school at USC and is currently practicing labor and employment law.  he didn't go until about 4 yrs after he graduated college, working in HR in between that.  he's been practicing law for 10 years now.  he's not in any serious debt since he had money saved up from working and got a grant and he likes his job...  most of the time.

 

i that i think it really matters what school you go to in most cases.  it also matters how well you do.  if he'd made it in to the top percentile of his class (didn't happen because dating me was a bit of a distraction...), he'd probably have gotten a job at one of the big law firms and could be making more than he does now.  as it is, it's probably for the better.  i don't have to work, we live comfortably in a nice area and he's home by 7pm the majority of the time so he can spend time with me and our kid.  sometimes i think it'd be nice to have a bigger place or more money for home improvements or traveling but i really do prefer having our family time.  i can't even imagine how much more stressful a big time firm would be for him also.

despite not placing in the top percentile (i'm serious that's one of the first questions all the interviewers at the big firms would ask him), he still did pretty well, passed the bar the first time and networked with USC alumni so he landed a job at a smaller place (about 100 attorneys) pretty easily.  his roommate, on the other hand, totally blew off studying and did pretty poorly.  she spent a lot of her time working at victoria secret and excelling at signing people up for the angels card, haha...  i don't even think she took or passed the bar and she now uses her JD to recruit jobs for various firms.

 

with what i've heard about how hard it is to find a job these days after law school, i'm not sure if it's the same anymore, but some communities like san diego will have a bunch of low tier law schools but they somehow love to hire people who went to school locally so over there, where you go to school isn't/wasn't really as important as being a local and, i would think, doing well academically.  so there's that.

 

i don't think my husband knew at the time of his applying to law school where he wanted to live and establish his career so he picked the best school that he got accepted to out of the ones he applied to.

 

love employment & labor law, if I ever pursued a JD it'd be to go that route... but what I really want to do is be an arbitrator with the FMCS, or work for the NLRB.

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I graduated in the top 5% of a U.S. News top 25 law school in 2004. Solid school but not considered elite.

 

At that time, the legal economy was in completely different shape than it is now. I landed a big firm job in NYC and a federal court clerkship.

 

At the big firm, I kept my head down and worked my ass off for a few years (there were many days that I worked until 2:00 a.m. or later and was back in the office by 8:30 a.m. and had very few weekends off). Once my wife and I got most of our law school loans paid off and saved a bunch of dough, I left the big firm for a boutique firm in NYC. I made partner at the end of last year and have pretty decent hours that allow me to have a social life and see my family.

 

Since the time I graduated law school, the legal economy has completely cratered. There are many, many news reports on this (in the Wall Street Journal and New York Times for example). The problem is there are nowhere near enough jobs for the amount of new lawyers that law schools are churning out. Even graduates of top law schools are having trouble finding jobs if they are not towards the top of their class. There is currently a market correction underway with law schools (i.e., law school enrollment is way down) but it will take years before correction is complete.

 

All that being said my two cents are as follows: Do not go into debt to pay for law school unless you get into a top 10 (or so) school. There is just way too much downside risk otherwise. If you go to a non-elite school on scholarship, due your homework on that school's job placement statistics.

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I am also finishing my junior year of undergrad and planning to pursue law school. Would it be a bad idea to take time off in between to work? I'm already burned out, so I feel that jumping straight in would make it worse and I'd end up leaving. I'd rather recharge for a year or two, while still being productive and making money. I don't think I can handle a job while in law school, unless its not very demanding on hours, so coming in with some money would be very helpful.

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I am also finishing my junior year of undergrad and planning to pursue law school. Would it be a bad idea to take time off in between to work? I'm already burned out, so I feel that jumping straight in would make it worse and I'd end up leaving. I'd rather recharge for a year or two, while still being productive and making money. I don't think I can handle a job while in law school, unless its not very demanding on hours, so coming in with some money would be very helpful.

 

As a person that has taken 4 years off and is now looking at grad school I don't feel like I have "recharged" at all. Unless you plan on taking a 2 year vacation you will still feel the same way later.

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I am also finishing my junior year of undergrad and planning to pursue law school. Would it be a bad idea to take time off in between to work? I'm already burned out, so I feel that jumping straight in would make it worse and I'd end up leaving. I'd rather recharge for a year or two, while still being productive and making money. I don't think I can handle a job while in law school, unless its not very demanding on hours, so coming in with some money would be very helpful.

 

I took off 6 years between undergrad and grad school and its a completely different experience for me.  I am the top of my class right now, something that was far from true in my undergrad.  I work full time, take classes at night, granted not law school, but ive had a number of labor law classes that were very demanding, but very fulfilling.  the last thing you want to do is stay in school if you're burning youreslf out. take some time off, and who knows, maybe you find a job that will pay for your schooling and you go a different route than getting a JD.

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If anyone is in the "I got an undergrad degree in ____ (fill in the blank with history, political science, communications, etc...) and now my job options are either taking a low paying job in my field or law school" I would recommend at least considering going for a PhD. I finish mine tomorrow in Engineering (yes...fucking tomorrow!). Very happy with the whole experience.

 

1) There is almost ALWAYS money for good students. You won't be making a ton, but you will get all your school paid for, health insurance, and a stipend that is enough to get a car, place to live, and a little leftover for personal stuff (usually $25k to $40k). You will probably just have to be a TA for a class each semester.

 

2) The pace is totally different. You usually only take 2-3 classes when doing coursework, and overall, you can get by working 20-30 hours a week (if you do 40 or 50 you will graduate quicker, but you don't HAVE to). 90% of your schedule is flexible. You get to sleep in!

 

I don't want to call it "fun" because it is still freaking school and isn't fun. But compared to what the systems put JDs and MDs through, it's a cakewalk.

 

I don't know if the job prospects are any better for a PhD in political science (for example) than for a JD, but at least it is an easier path / lifestyle. It's nice that with engineering I have the option to go into industry (which I chose) and/or teach. Some fields probably don't have as much industrial demand.

 

But anyways, my main point was "PhD decision worked out really good for me and if Law isn't looking like as nice a career as it did 5+ years ago, I wouldn't write it off unless absolutely sure you don't want to go that far in school".

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If anyone is in the "I got an undergrad degree in ____ (fill in the blank with history, political science, communications, etc...) and now my job options are either taking a low paying job in my field or law school" I would recommend at least considering going for a PhD. I finish mine tomorrow in Engineering (yes...fucking tomorrow!). Very happy with the whole experience.

 

1) There is almost ALWAYS money for good students. You won't be making a ton, but you will get all your school paid for, health insurance, and a stipend that is enough to get a car, place to live, and a little leftover for personal stuff (usually $25k to $40k). You will probably just have to be a TA for a class each semester.

 

2) The pace is totally different. You usually only take 2-3 classes when doing coursework, and overall, you can get by working 20-30 hours a week (if you do 40 or 50 you will graduate quicker, but you don't HAVE to). 90% of your schedule is flexible. You get to sleep in!

 

I don't want to call it "fun" because it is still freaking school and isn't fun. But compared to what the systems put JDs and MDs through, it's a cakewalk.

 

I don't know if the job prospects are any better for a PhD in political science (for example) than for a JD, but at least it is an easier path / lifestyle. It's nice that with engineering I have the option to go into industry (which I chose) and/or teach. Some fields probably don't have as much industrial demand.

 

But anyways, my main point was "PhD decision worked out really good for me and if Law isn't looking like as nice a career as it did 5+ years ago, I wouldn't write it off unless absolutely sure you don't want to go that far in school".

 

Didn't know you were an engineer.  I'm graduating with my undgrad in mechanical in a couple weeks.  I'm so excited to be done for a while. And I already have a job, which is nice.

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If anyone is in the "I got an undergrad degree in ____ (fill in the blank with history, political science, communications, etc...) and now my job options are either taking a low paying job in my field or law school" I would recommend at least considering going for a PhD. I finish mine tomorrow in Engineering (yes...fucking tomorrow!). Very happy with the whole experience.

 

1) There is almost ALWAYS money for good students. You won't be making a ton, but you will get all your school paid for, health insurance, and a stipend that is enough to get a car, place to live, and a little leftover for personal stuff (usually $25k to $40k). You will probably just have to be a TA for a class each semester.

 

2) The pace is totally different. You usually only take 2-3 classes when doing coursework, and overall, you can get by working 20-30 hours a week (if you do 40 or 50 you will graduate quicker, but you don't HAVE to). 90% of your schedule is flexible. You get to sleep in!

 

I don't want to call it "fun" because it is still freaking school and isn't fun. But compared to what the systems put JDs and MDs through, it's a cakewalk.

 

I don't know if the job prospects are any better for a PhD in political science (for example) than for a JD, but at least it is an easier path / lifestyle. It's nice that with engineering I have the option to go into industry (which I chose) and/or teach. Some fields probably don't have as much industrial demand.

 

But anyways, my main point was "PhD decision worked out really good for me and if Law isn't looking like as nice a career as it did 5+ years ago, I wouldn't write it off unless absolutely sure you don't want to go that far in school".

 

i know this isn't true for all fields, but in some fields, employers are looking for employees they don't have to pay top dollar to, and if they have two candidates for a position, one with just a BS/BA or a masters, vs. one with a PhD, they'll choose the former, because they don't have to pay them as much.  just something to think about as well.

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 also, i work in a legal office for the state, and according to the attorneys here, the market for lawyers is awful right now.  the interns we get are unpaid and usually take a train in 1.5 hours each way from philly every day, and all say they're so thankful for even this opportunity.  starting salary here is only around $45K i believe.  i have friends who were just bored and decided to go to law school because they hated their job.  seems like a not so good idea given the lack of jobs upon graduation and the huge amount of debt one can pile up.

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I know the law market a couple years back was pretty shitty, I knew a Princeton grad who didn't find anything for awhile.....Then again his family were already millionaires so no rush lol

 

What law school did he go to and how well did he do? Because Princeton doesn't have a law school.

 

I am also finishing my junior year of undergrad and planning to pursue law school. Would it be a bad idea to take time off in between to work? I'm already burned out, so I feel that jumping straight in would make it worse and I'd end up leaving. I'd rather recharge for a year or two, while still being productive and making money. I don't think I can handle a job while in law school, unless its not very demanding on hours, so coming in with some money would be very helpful.

 

The ABA doesn't let students work more than 20 hrs a week anyways.

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love employment & labor law, if I ever pursued a JD it'd be to go that route... but what I really want to do is be an arbitrator with the FMCS, or work for the NLRB.

 

i don't know much about it, but arbitration sounds like a good alternative.  it seems like lots of people go that route when trying to avoid/resolve a dispute.

 

I am also finishing my junior year of undergrad and planning to pursue law school. Would it be a bad idea to take time off in between to work? I'm already burned out, so I feel that jumping straight in would make it worse and I'd end up leaving. I'd rather recharge for a year or two, while still being productive and making money. I don't think I can handle a job while in law school, unless its not very demanding on hours, so coming in with some money would be very helpful.

 

as i mentioned in my first post, my husband took 4 years off and it helped him quite a bit.  he actually initially wanted to be a doctor.  he and his college roommate got rejected their first year applying.  the roommate reapplied the next year and got in.  my husband didn't bother.  he just went to work in HR for a few years until he figured out what he really wanted to do.  upon the suggestion of a co-worker, he took the LSAT and applied to law school.  the 4 years of HR experience has definitely helped him in his current field and like i also mentioned, helped him pay for a lot of school.  he pays less than $150/month in student loans right now which isn't bad at all.

 

depending on what school you get into, i'm not sure you'll be able to work much in law school.  along with the course work, there are internships and clerkships.  my husband worked his 2nd year doing a $10/hr internship at some organization in downtown LA.  then he was a clerk his 3rd year at the firm he works at currently.  he took 3 months off during the summer after he graduated to study all day everyday for the bar.  after he passed it, they promoted him to junior associate and now he's a senior associate.  there might be some lower tier law schools that have more flexible schedules that allow you to balance work and school, but i'm not sure.

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i know this isn't true for all fields, but in some fields, employers are looking for employees they don't have to pay top dollar to, and if they have two candidates for a position, one with just a BS/BA or a masters, vs. one with a PhD, they'll choose the former, because they don't have to pay them as much.  just something to think about as well.

Yeah, having with a PhD has overqualified me for some jobs. These jobs are also beneath my level of training. They don't want me, and I am not interested in them. So there is really no disincentive to go to school for any degree at any level because you will price yourself out of more common jobs. It's really part of the desired effect of the schooling -- to open yourself up to better jobs. 

 

I don't mean to sound stuck up with that. Obviously you can have a great and happy career without a PhD and it's not for everyone.

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